[Nisarg]

Bows are much more accurate than muskets, but not only do musket shots do more damage, musket balls are also much more economic to manufacture. At short range, the musket is clearly better so long as the reload part is out of the picture.

This is how I see it:

Attribute\Weapon	Bow	Crossbow	Musket	Pistol	Rifle
Range	Medium	Medium Low	High	Low	Very High
Accuracy	Medium High	High	Low	Medium	High
Damage	Low	Medium	High	Medium	High/Very High
Projectile Speed	Low	Medium Low	High	High	High
Shoot Time	Long	Medium	Medium	Short	Medium
Reload Time	Very Short	Medium	Long	Medium Long	Long*
Overall Rate of Fire	High	Medium	Very Low	Low	Very Low

Shoot Time is the time taken to shoot once loaded. In case of a bow, the bow string must be pulled back before letting loose the arrow. In all other case, the weapon must be aimed and a trigger pulled, and it's easiest to aim with a pistol because it has a low range anyway and is the only one wielded with one hand.

Reload Time is the time taken to reload the weapon, and here the bow shines. It takes very little time to pull an arrow out of the quiver and just nock an arrow into the bow. In the case of a crossbow, the string must be drawn, locked and then the bolt must be nocked. This process is even longer for the gunpowder weapons. *Also, the rifle suffers from powder fouling which gradually renders it more and more difficult to reload. In the end, it has cleaned/primed to make it usable again.

[glumetzul]

Well I remember how the pistols took a part in the Sea Dogs / PotC games. You had a pistol which you usually shot at the beginning of the fight and then went to sword fighting because it took sometime like a minute to reload that pistol (the counter went down automaticly while you were fighting with swords which wasn't quite very realistic but that's another story).
Later in the game you found pistols with 2 and even 4 barrels so even if it tool a lot longer to reload, you had more shots at the beginning of a fight untill you had to draw the sword.


So this is how a cool way for Risen 2 to handle guns could be:
You find a gun. You have to load it, a process that takes up lots of time and during which time the character performs an animation and can't fight or run (just slowly walk). Another option would be for no animation but longer loading time. That would be bettter because it might get boring to stare at the animation of loading the gun after each successfull fight. Or maybe let him run while loading it so that you will be able to explore as usual while loading the gun.


That would mean that the guns are an extension to sword fighting. When encountering stronger enemies, you shoot a bullet first but then you must use the sword. Kinda like when fighting a really tough opponent in the previous games and you used a magic scroll before going in hand to hand.

But that would mean that for ranger type players, bows or magic are still the option since they allow for more than one shot during one fight. I think that would please everybody and would allow for many different kind combinations between swords, bows/crossbows, guns and magic without creating a super-powerfull class of gunman that won't need any help from the swords, bows or magic.

Maybe only in the end, the gunman could become so accurate that will kill most monsters with one shot but that would require lots of LP invested in that skill and also very steady hand from the player which will need a perfect aim (unlike G3 or Risen where if you missed with a bow you could try again seconds later).

And of course, a shot from a gun, would make the enemies act like a successfull shot no matter if you hit them or not. With bows, if you miss a monster he doesn't even notice that you took a shot at him. But with guns that won't be realistic. As soon as you take a shot with a firearm expect of all kinds of trouble (Maybe some creatures get scared by the noise and try to run away while others will charge at you. Also the humas will surely realise that they are being attacked and act accordingly).

As you can see there is much variety that guns bring to this game if they are implemented right. But it's a very hard work for the people responsible to ballancing the game if they will be a great succes or an epic failure (being either too weak or too strong).

[Nisarg]

I agree with most of it but, in my opinion, the reload animation should always be there. And it should be cancellable, so that if the player is under attack, he could quickly just switch to another weapon. And I don't think that it would be good idea to have multibarrel pistols because that would make it too modern. However, I think that it should be possible to equip multiple pistols and just pull them out and fire one after the other. To balance this, pistols could be made rare in the game AND you'd have to find braces to put additional pistols into.

[glumetzul]

I agree with most of it but, in my opinion, the reload animation should always be there. And it should be cancellable, so that if the player is under attack, he could quickly just switch to another weapon. And I don't think that it would be good idea to have multibarrel pistols because that would make it too modern. However, I think that it should be possible to equip multiple pistols and just pull them out and fire one after the other. To balance this, pistols could be made rare in the game AND you'd have to find braces to put additional pistols into.

There are different ways to follow and it's up to them to ballance it in a good way. But I think we can all agree that that guns CAN be introduced in a way that won't make all other weapons and magic to be useless.

[warstrike]

okey ,i shall post only once and then i`ll stay off .
First off ,i bashed arcania for having quest markers ,gps map ,lame voice acting ,invisible walls ,lack of RPG elements and so on .
I won`t jump to conclusions and say that it will suck or it will be the best game . I`m optimistic and simply wait for more info.
If they handle this well ,it might turn out to be a GOOD game ,but let`s not forget what happened when they tried something new (see gothic 3).
I think it`s only a matter of taste ,but i don`t think the weapons will destroy the game that much .
Although if you read some of Jules Verne`s books ,they can say that captain Nemo brought the weapons on the islands ( L'Île mystérieuse)

[nirolF]

So this is how a cool way for Risen 2 to handle guns could be:
You find a gun. You have to load it, a process that takes up lots of time and during which time the character performs an animation and can't fight or run (just slowly walk). Another option would be for no animation but longer loading time. That would be bettter because it might get boring to stare at the animation of loading the gun after each successfull fight. Or maybe let him run while loading it so that you will be able to explore as usual while loading the gun.

they could make it so when the player is out of combat mode (just finished a fight or is undetected by enemies ) the reloading animation will start automatically if the equipped gun is empty and can be interrupted if anything intervene (starting a conversation with someone, picking something). Also you can press a reload button anytime during a fight if you need another shot.

[RobinHood 13.]

I think reloading gun should be non-automatic. You must actually reload the gun, and is only able to walk while doing this. It doesn't take to much time, but against a charging enemy it is of little use. Maybe you can reload 1 shot, but not more. Kitin is difficult, guns will mainly be start advantage weapons, however it's not to tedious to reload the weapon (you don't have to spend a minute) and you don't break immersion by having the gun automatically reload.

[Argenguy]

I believe that they should implement bows too, specially for stealthy purposes.

early muskets and archebuses were heavy, long, unreliable, slow loading and are inaccurate.
They were long and heavy because the blackpowder burns slower than modern smokeless powder, hence you need a long barrel so the bullet uses all the burning gases effectively.
They were unrealiable, because they must be primed by filling a pan on the breach of the gun so it can catch spark to ignite the powder. A simple dew or a humid enviroment (eg: a marsh) can ruin your day, let alone you can use it under rain or heavy snowing. This was partially solved with the percussion cap system, in were the primer cap on the breach seal the brach, so the pan was eliminated and thus the powder was more protected, almost hermetically sealed on the loaded gun.
The match lock system uses a slow burning cord attached to the key, a simple dew can douse it off. The wheel lock system is more reliable than the matchlock, but more expensive, complicated as well, and required more mantenaince. The flintlock system is simpler and reliable enough.

They are inaccurate a becuase the barrel has a smooth bore, the bullet (that is a spherical lead ball) bouces across the wall of the barrel, and most of them lacked of any ironsights.
Rifled guns, coupled with the implementation of ironsights (and even scopes), percussion cap lock, and the use of conical or acorn shaped bullets (like the dreaded Minie ball) greatly increased the accuracy, reliability and effectiveness of black powder firearms. But this happened on late 18th century circa early 19th century.

EDIT: Well, enough with the technical details. Here's my point, they could work on the game, but only if they respect the basic real life rules such as the slow reload, inaccuracy and that moisture hampers them.
For example: if it rains in-game, you can use them as long as you are indoors, if you go outside with a loaded firearm, you will lose the charge, except for the bullet of course, and if you go inside again, you will have to reload the weapon again. We can overlook that the gun is wet (IRL it must be as dry as possible in order to operate reliably).
Firearm related items: different types bullets (eg: for pistols, for muskets/archebuses, for blunderbuss) and powder flask (usually made of brass, copper, bronze silver or hollowed horns). This can be simplified with pre-armed paper cartridges (the very paper was used as a wad for sealing the load and the round into place), like this:

[Bild: gfbdtgftghf.jpg]

[Aetherian]

Pirates and pirate ships were in the original Risen, pirate ships are usually known to have cannons, and thus gunpowder. Makes sense that smaller versions of the cannon should be around then, and be used too. Granted they weren't used in Risen I, but they for the most part were either prisoners, or shipwrecked, and on the island the Inquisition controlled almost everything as they only believed in staffs and magic for their fighters, so the lack of firearms can be explained there.

I just hope PB balances them appropriately in the game, I like Mass Effect so guns for me won't be an issue. Will be interesting to see how they incorporated them into the game, can't wait to get my hands on a demo and see how things work out!

[Nisarg]

Yes, but what about my bows and crossbows?

Is there some way to change your vote in this poll?

[Aetherian]

Yes, but what about my bows and crossbows?

Is there some way to change your vote in this poll?

Vote for a mod kit and hope Spellbound gives in so you can put 'em in there yourself.

[Nisarg]

Vote for a mod kit and hope Spellbound gives in so you can put 'em in there yourself.

Why Spellbound? What has Spellbound to do with Risen 2?

[Aetherian]

Grrrrrr.......freudian slip there. Happens when you're posting in different forums and having other developers, or publishers, in mind when posting something. I meant Deep Silver, though why Spellbound, which is a developer not a publisher, came to mind I have no idea. I'll blame it on the whiskey.....

[Nisarg]

And PB releasing a modkit. Hmmm, might happen if they create a new engine for their next game. But damn it, I want my bows and crossbows, I don't care for guns. How am I supposed to attack even a wolf from a distance without alerting every single beast within half a mile? Especially if the shot can miss due to the famous accuracy of muskets.

[Mage Master]

Guns? god damn it, why would they do that, a pirate based scenario would seem stupid without guns but still, I'd prefer it back at the middle ages style. Hm... that again I haven't really played a game with pirates, but I doubth I'd like the scene that much.

After skipping all of the post but the first one, I think I have an idea on why the guns suddenly appear, maybe they already existed and since that island is small maybe they had no need for them, or haven't even heard of them, and the reason the inquisition didn't brought guns is because they won't be able to restock on ammo on that island. And I may be wrong but I do remember cannons on the paladin's ship on Gothic 2, and gothic and risen look like they take place in a similar era.
So that sounds like a good explonation, to me at least. But I think that the creators should give us a reason for those things, and not let us fans do it for our-self's.

[Nisarg]

Yes, that's the explanation many of us thought of. But it still doesn't explain the supposed exclusion of bows and crossbows from the game. And no, I don't buy the explanation that guns are so good that even if classical ranged weapons were included, no one would use them. Guns are loud, noisy, inaccurate (or at least they should be in a game set in those times) despite their cheap ammunition, long range and their superior damage.

[glumetzul]

Yeah the elimination of bows is very unfortunate.

The thing is that the invention of guns and a low spread during the time between Risen and Risen 2 would be plausible. So would the fact that guns were so rare that none of them made it yet to Faranga.

But one think is certain. When guns first appeared, bows and crossbows didn't suddenly vanish. There would be a long age of transition during which the quality and accuracy of firearms would improve thus making the bows useless.

I don't think however that 10 years is a long enought time for all bows and crossbows to be forgotten in favor of firearms.

[Nisarg]

"What dark magic was released into the world with the release of the Titans, I do not know. But I do know that on the 11th anniversary of the banishment of the Gods, all bows and crossbows transformed overnight into these weapons we now call pistols and muskets because they appeared in a divine vision granted to every soul, and were called so by the divine voice in the vision."

-Commandant Carlos

[glumetzul]

"What dark magic was released into the world with the release of the Titans, I do not know. But I do know that on the 11th anniversary of the banishment of the Gods, all bows and crossbows transformed overnight into these weapons we now call pistols and muskets because they appeared in a divine vision granted to every soul, and were called so by the divine voice in the vision."

-Commandant Carlos

That makes sense

[Aetherian]

And PB releasing a modkit. Hmmm, might happen if they create a new engine for their next game. But damn it, I want my bows and crossbows, I don't care for guns. How am I supposed to attack even a wolf from a distance without alerting every single beast within half a mile? Especially if the shot can miss due to the famous accuracy of muskets.

I remember Quy, or somebody from PB, saying that making a modkit was up to the blessings of Deep Silver. Which tells me that they could make one if they were paid for it.

As for the guns, maybe there will be a voodoo area silence spell to shoot your gun without announcing your presence for all the baddies out there to zoom in on you.