[Vaana]

For the past 2 years, I've been interested in learning more about the cancelled Piranha Bytes-made addon for Gothic 3. This ended up being a much longer write-up than I imagined, but I hope you at least find it interesting. Let me start off by explaining what this is all about.

Backstory

Gothic 3 was released on the 13th of October 2006 in a "less than optimal" state. After 4 additional patches were released (1.07, 1.08, 1.09, 1.12), the game was left in a somewhat playable state, and questions started to be asked about what will happen next.

The answer to this question is eventually hinted at in a Christmas interview with Kai Rosenkranz (conducted on the 24th of December 2006), that mentions at least 4 different things that should happen next:

Now we are faced with the following problem: Our time is taken up by four "projects": The completion of Gothic 3, the work on the editor, the planning of future projects and the restructuring of the company itself if you would like that), we have to tackle the work that has to be done sorted by priorities. And the top priority is still the completion of Gothic 3.

In order to finish Gothic 3, PB would release a large, so-called "gigabyte" patch, that was to fix up any remaining issues with the game. Along with this, PB wanted to release modding tools for G3 and also start making their next game. At this time rumours spread that the next game would in fact be a Gothic 3 addon, as was teased by JoWood prior to Gothic 3's release. However, these rumours end up being neither confirmed or denied by Piranha Bytes.

The fact that this next game would indeed be a Gothic game is later confirmed in an interview with Björn Pankratz from February 2007.

Gothicz.net Everybody would like to know what you are planning next, and I don't mean further patches.

Björn Pankratz: It's not yet certain. However, it will have something to do with our Gothic world, that IS certain.

As months go by, the lack of any new info about what PB is currently doing makes the community nervous, worrying that the gigabyte patch might have been cancelled. To quench the community's thirst for new content, Kai Rosenkranz makes a post on the JoWood message boards in March 2007, ensuring the fans that the patch is indeed coming, but they are facing technical challenges.

And now to finish: The patch is not out yet because we have great difficulties with it in the most diverse areas. The more manageable key questions include: Can the patch installation be followed by a forced restart, x months after the game was released? How do you get a GB patch to the users? Will it be interpreted as a purchase patch for us if we include the patch with our next title, among other things? But some problems are even more complex than that. Since most people now report that they can play smoothly and without problems, we are not (again) putting ourselves under too much pressure, but are working on a well thought-out solution.

However, less than 2 months after this post was made, on May 22nd 2007, Piranha Bytes announces that it's parting their ways with JoWood. As you might know, neither the modding tools, gigabyte patch or the addon ever came out. PB eventually signed a contract with Deep Silver, and released Risen over 2 years later.

Investigation

What happened to the Gothic 3 Addon? Of course, it was cancelled, however, I am surprised that we didn't see bits and pieces of it being reused somewhere.

The time between the release of the last Gothic 3 patch and the end of partnership with JoWood was exactly 5 months and 1 day. For reference that's roughly the development time of Gothic: Sequel.

It's hard to imagine that during all this time, PB had done nothing in regards to their future titles, especially since game sequels usually start being planned and/or developed shortly before the last title is released. Of course, a lot of this time was dedicated to patching the Genome engine, but still...

With this in mind, I started scouring the internet for clues...

Forum posts

3 days after PB said goodbye to JoWood, Mike Hoge wrote a forum post here on WoG, stating that:

We have been planning our new game for several months. This game currently exists. only in our heads and formed the basis of our negotiations about Gothic 4, which were finally ended by the publisher.

Together with this game, a change in the content of Gothic III in the areas of combat system, balancing and story / dialogs was planned. In our opinion, this "return to old virtues" would not have been possible with the technology of our last title.

So in the last few months we have set the course for this new game on our own account (and in some cases waiving our salary), on the basis of which we would have wanted to make the content changes of Gothic 3.

Unfortunately, PB and JoWood were separated.
Our former publisher has already announced in the press that the only important thing about Gothic is Gothic, and that the developer is replaceable.
We wish our former publisher all the best with his new projects.

Even with the shoddy translation, it is possible to read between the lines to see what is going on. The new game mentioned here most likely ended up being Risen, but up to this point, it was meant to be Gothic 4. However, it's strange the it mentions Gothic 4 and not the Addon. Makes me wonder what PB was actually planning? Gothic 4? Gothic 3 Addon? Or both?

Remnants inside Risen

My first thought was to datamine Risen if I could find any remnants of these projects. I searched through all the textures, models, animations, shader files, etc. and even through the executable, only to find out how clean it was.

Risen is referred to as "project" in the executable. I expected to find at least some forgotten string that would mention an Addon, or G4, but nothing. I eventually found a set of unused textures in the game files, that, at first glance, don't appear special.


[Bild: yfiHaWX_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=grand]


[Bild: kTE9tP3_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=grand]


[Bild: Jiq4SjF_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=grand]

Well, when I say at first glance, what might be so special about them?

When you take a look at the normal map for these textures, you find that they were last modified on the 17th of November 2006. That's a more than a month before PB released the last Gothic 3 patch. At this time, PB was still under contract with JoWood.

There's also a texture for a harbour landlady that's dated 16th of May 2007, 6 days before the break-up.


[Bild: 0SDEEZE_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=grand]

Then there's an armor texture called "Ani_Hero_Armor_Mage_Water_01_Diffuse_S1".


[Bild: lVes5US.png]

Water mages? In Risen? Hold on.

Anyway, all of this means that PB were actually doing something during that time, and what they were making didn't exist "only in their heads".

The only other thing I found is that Gnomes are referred to as "Goblins" by the game, and there is an unused enum value for Lurkers (gESpecies_Lurker).

Cut Intro

I should also briefly mention the original Intro planned for Risen, which can be found on Ralf Marczinczik's blog.

Basically, in this intro concept art, you can see what appears to be the Nameless Hero and Xardas, re-enact the events of the "Adanos ending" of Gothic 3.


[Bild: cG59x9u.jpg]

For some this might be the smoking gun that the Gothic 3 Addon/Gothic 4 is actually Risen, however I am not so sure. This wouldn't be the last time PB made a reference to the Gothic series in a Risen game. A later Risen 2 preview mentions that Captain Gregorius Emanuel Steelbeard used to hang around a certain "Khorini" island back in the day (sounds familiar? ). This could have been just that, a reference.

Interestingly enough, the textures for the people in this intro are still in the game files and I've uploaded them to Imgur if you want to take look for yourself.

https://imgur.com/gallery/bJ5m3KO

btw: I keep thinking more and more that Eldric from Risen was originally meant to be Xardas or the Nameless hero. He kind of looks like the Nameless if you squint hard enough

Visit to the PB offices

After the release Gothic 3, a few lucky souls from WoG got the opportunity to visit PB in Essen, while being allowed to talk to the devs and take pictures. Of course the contents of these pictures had to be blurred out for obvious reasons, but there are still some things that have managed to "seap through the cracks".

In this picture you can actually see a printed out version of the lectern from Risen lying on table.


[Bild: nG1ymRA.jpg]


[Bild: E10qwp0.png]

Here it is much harder to see, but the drawing lying on the table just left of the chair is actually the harbour town house from Risen.


[Bild: JO3y1Gh.jpg]


[Bild: X3ntThF.png]

When you take this into consideration in combination with the interviews... well, I'll let you connect the dots.

https://www.worldofgothic.de/gothic3...tm?go=pbbesuch

The work rooms are decorated with a wide variety of images and artworks, starting with images from Gothic 1 such as the cardboard display with Gorn, to a wall with top secret things, which are intended as food for thought and suggestions for the add-on. Unfortunately, we weren't allowed to take any pictures of this wall, although the piranhas were otherwise very open about photos.

https://www.worldofgothic.de/gothic3...go=interview16

Of course, it was mainly the time problem again, because we didn't have enough time to do these animations. Actually, a swordsman should do it properly, so that it looks good, that is, we should have brought in an extra guy who can really do sword fighting, who has to know how to tackle the MoCap. It would have taken two or three days to prepare the things. There just wasn't enough time for. Of course, it may well be that, if we have a little time, we will put something in the add-on because it created atmosphere.

...

That has not yet been decided, it is a matter of negotiation that is still a bit in the future. If JoWooD wants that, we want it, it makes sense. There will almost certainly be an add-on. The contract has not yet been signed, but it is almost certain. It is not improbable.

Lastly, among the pictures, you can see an unblurred photo of Thorsten Kalka's monitor.


[Bild: Q3oi7rj.jpg]

You can see him working on an unknown piece of armor. Maybe it's the same armor as in the unused textures?


[Bild: WslDr92.png]

Concept art

While reviewing all the info I found, I ended up going through Ralf's blog once again, to see if I missed anything. Turns out, I did.

In the Risen gallery on comixfactory.de, you can find a concept art of the bath from Risen 1, with the text "G3Add0n" above it.


[Bild: 61Zk3aP.jpg]

This is almost a direct conformation that the Gothic 3 addon was a real thing at one point, and that things from it were repurposed for Risen 1.

However, that's where the clues end. Interestingly, in the same gallery, you can find a concept art from 2005. What is it doing in the Risen section? No idea, maybe it's just a mistake.

Spoiler:(zum lesen bitte Text markieren)

[Bild: TbJt3bh.jpg]

Conclusion

Everything I found so far makes me more even less certain about the subject. It is almost certain that Gothic 3 Add0n/Gothic 4 and Risen are related in some way, but I am not sure how much exactly.

The sentence "Will it be interpreted as a purchase patch for us if we include the patch with our next title, among other things?" from Kai's forum post makes me thing that the Gothic 3 Addon would have been an expansion (similar to NoTR), in which's case it could have not become a standalone game that easily.

My current guess is that whatever the Gothic 3 Addon was, most of it was scrapped and only pieces that could be reused were reused in Risen, similar as with Gothic: Sequel (a texture here, an animation there...). It's an interesting piece of PB history nonetheless

Either way it makes me sad that we never got to see the game and that many hours of work went down the drain.

I hope that this at least sheds some light on it. Oh yeah and I nearly forgot... it's a bit late but... HAPPY BIRTHDAY GOTHIC 3!

[Norrik]

Was looking for this recently, but didn't find any good sources, so thank you very much for your research!

[Arthur Fleck]

I heard this and that and even asked bluntly Jenny in the Elex board. While PB will not mention anything on this regard, I heard talk not of the addon but of the GB-patch for fixing G3 in some regards. Interesting stuff, but not verifiable and nothing to look at.

Thank you for your dive into that matter. For me personally this is the more interesting part of the Piranha Byte story.

[Vaana]

I heard this and that and even asked bluntly Jenny in the Elex board. While PB will not mention anything on this regard

I asked them too and got pretty much nothing. It's a shame PB doesn't like to talk about their history, especially since, as you can see, many people are interested in it.

[Leichenpriester]

The Epilog of the book "The Art Of Gothic 3" also mentions the AddOn(s), the author Agnes Illigner writes, that all the content which is not part of the final game or on of the AddOns is to good to discard in a virtual Bin so the art book was created (Page 194).

Furthermore, Ralf Marczinczik writes in a description of a concept drawing which shows catacombs in Varant: He hopes that they can realise such catacombs in one of the Add-Ons (Page 43).

[Vaana]

Furthermore, Ralf Marczinczik writes in a description of a concept drawing which shows catacombs in Varant: He hopes that they can realise such catacombs in one of the Add-Ons (Page 43).

Wow, I never noticed that.

Just for info he writes:

The early production phase was shaped by the wildest notions of where the game would graphically develop. So here we have a very early concept drawing of the catacombs below the ruins. I still like the idea of connecting the tunnels with transverse, improvised bridges that lead over high abysses and I hope that we can implement it in one of the add-ons.

It's strange that Addons are mentioned. So, PB planned to have multiple G3 addons it seems.

My current guess is that they would add content to the game with these addons, meaning that it would have been an expansion (not standalone like Forsaken Gods).

I want to speculate for a brief moment. And do mind that this is a big speculation.

Spoiler:(zum lesen bitte Text markieren)

I think that PB started development on a G3Add0n (maybe the 0 in the name specifices it is the first one, or not...) in late 2006 while also making plans in the background for Gothic 4. Later when the negotiations with Jowood went nowhere, they cancelled the Addon, and morfed the Gothic 4 plans into Risen.

This also means that whatever content they made for the G3Add0n had to be scrapped (similar to Gothic: Sequel), since it's hard to reuse stuff that was specifically made for a game set in Myrtana + using it would also mean potential legal trouble.

However, minor things were reused (like the baththub) or used as placeholders and later replaced with new, original content (like the cut armor textures presented above).

That makes sense, at least to me, but I cannot directly confirm it.

---

Edit: I found a paragraph in the magazine GameStar, issue 03/2009, page 38, which states:

Why isn't Risen called Gothic 4?
The game, which is now called Risen, was actually originally planned as part of the Gothic series. But in May 2007, the developer Piranha Bytes separated from its publisher Jowood after a dispute over the bugged Gothic 3. The naming rights to the role-playing game series remained with Jowood, who have had Gothic 4 developed by the Aachen-based studio Spellbound since then. Piranha Bytes looked for a new partner in Munich publisher Deep Silver and renamed his game »Risen«. It should be the start of a new successful series.

I wonder whether this was stated by PB or if it's just speculation of the journalist Heiko Klinge.

[Homerclon]

I wonder whether this was stated by PB or if it's just speculation of the journalist Heiko Klinge.

He would not be the only one, many think the same.
There are just too many clues in Risen that fit Gothic, especially Gothic 3. Starting with the intro, and more generally the backstory. There is also a mod to make Risen look more like a Gothic.
However, as far as I know, there has been no official confirmation from PB, or even a former one.



Tip: Use deepl.com for translation, the quality is much better.
Only in the number of supported languages can it not yet keep up.

[Vaana]

However, as far as I know, there has been no official confirmation from PB, or even a former one.

Is this official enough?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpwSn1dZ99k&t=9423s

Then there is also this, which doesn't confirm or deny it:
https://clips.twitch.tv/JoyousCovertGoshawkRiPepperonis

Tip: Use deepl.com for translation, the quality is much better.
Only in the number of supported languages can it not yet keep up.

Thanks, looks cool.

[Ajanna]

Before I had played Risen I expected a game closer to the gothic universe. I think we all did. There were story-, charm- and altar room competitions in this forum - all in the traditions of the gothic world. We were all thrilled to participate. Actually I started to write a long story expecting it to fit into the new game. But then Götterdämmerung and Arcania were released and they were just a bad joke. I didn't understand the backgrounds, I was just very disappointed.

It was then that I decided to continue writing my story against this bullshit and forbid it to be used for inspiration by any commercial company.
Risen was an excellent new start though. It was like gothic, it had the potential to inspire. I'd like the risen story to be developed further... Risen and Risen 3 that is.

[Ajanna]

The watermage dress and the brown one with the Irish pattern are really nice.

[Vaana]

Hi there, a small update, but hopefully interesting.

While looking through the .lrent files inside Risen 1 for a different project of mine, I noticed that a bunch of the entities (eCDynamicEntity) have a DataChangedTimeStamp from 2007. Using this it can be deduced when the world project for Risen 1 was first created.

The oldest timestamp in the whole Risen 1 world is in SysDyn_{C3960F11-2A7F-42BA-B9F6-5D8BFA392E82}.lrent (the main lrent file) which is dated 2007-05-07T18:29:32.

This most likely means that the Risen world project was created in May 2007, shortly before PB and JW parted ways, when PB already knew what was going to happen.

This also debunks any speculation that the island of Faranga was originally part of the G3 Addon, since the dates simply don't add up. It also makes me think more and more that whatever was made for the G3 Addon (if anything) was most probably scrapped entirely.