[Phantom95]

Hello.. I has questions about build gothic mod development kit for Gothic 1. So, Question - in the resources we find screenshots of the spacer 1.32d, but in the modkit this version is not available, WHY?! Why even then was to add screenshots with this version? Why modkit not have ALL testlevel, from the original source project Gothic?! The modkit had to, just had to contain all the test levels from the original Gothic project, if even orccity.3ds and abandonedmine.3ds are present in the resources.
Next - are there any earlier builds of Gothic mod development kit?

[HerrFenrisWolf]

Why do you ask for earlier builds of the modkit? I can't see any value in that. The modkit was developed by NicoDE back when he worked for Piranha Bytes and was a project he did in his spare time. So I belive he added what he found helpful or necessary for the community and not early builds of Gothic, that were never supposed to be released in any form. So there may be traces of never finished resources, but no obligation to contain anything of them at all.

[Don-Esteban]

I know it's very interesting to search for development traces in unpublished software versions. But please refrain from showing screenshots, scripts, files, videos or any other parts of unpublished alpha/beta developer versions of Gothic, the ModKit or the Sequel in our web forums. This software versions are internal developer versions and not published in a legal manner from it's owner. Hence it is a copyright infringement to show content from such versions without the permission of it's owner.

We, the administration of this web forum, as person in charge are liable for any breach of law in our web forums. Against this background I had to delete three threads from you and Psimgoth in the last days. Maybe in Poland or Russia the weighting of copyright questions from older software is different - I don't know - but our web forum servers are in Germany and we are under German law.

[Psimgoth]

Dont Esteban You never stop us. We get everything what is necessary for movies.

[Don-Esteban]

I don't want to stop you. Why should I? Either you haven't read my post or you have not understand it.

Do what you want, but please don't do it at our web forum, because I must delete it. I have explained the reason in my post in a kindly manner.

[Phantom95]

Why me interested in an early version modkit? Because I have a hunch that they contained an old version of spacer and all the Test levels.. Modkit does not contain all test levels, but contains orcity and abandonedmine, maybe someone will give me an adequate answer why some test levels were not included in modkit?! Where the hell is the logic?
And Yes, we will still get these versions of spacer and test levels, we already have a lot of rare resources and if we say what, probably, it will take shock for all...

PS: before talking about banned materials, you need to put things in order in their German themes, I do not accidentally cited the mod Die Bedrohung as an example. I have nothing against this mod, as well as no objection to the use of resources alpha and sequel, I just pointed out to you that you just delete what you consider necessary based on your personal subjective beliefs. I know, that all forums have adhere to this principle, including and Russians and the Polish, all depends on people, simply whom the this is permitted, and whom the there is no..

[Don-Esteban]

As wrote a member of the former Bedrohung mod team, they got the Sequel assets directly from PB. (see here in German) I cannot judge wether it was legal from PB to hand this assets or not because the owner status of the Sequel assets are absolutely uncleared. But this is a business between the mod team and PB. Not ours. Please ask some of them, not us. The only I know: All later publications of Sequel assets are definitely not legal. Publication of any developer versions are not legal until it's not published or subsequently permitted by PB himself. As liable person for any breach of law I don't have any choice and must delete such material in our web forums. Sorry. I already point this out.

[Phantom95]

I know all this, and even more.. Especially with regard to the leak of the sequel. Even in March 2017, the German user Barlin on forum jharkendar.de were merged all the textures, meshes and animations sequel, so the culprit are he.. We are unlike any Barlin and Sueski not going to publish, it is only used for video recording, which is very popular with the fan community. The demonstration of materials in the video is not a violation of the law..
But let's stop this pointless discussion about copyright.

My main question is - why haven't all the test levels from the original Gothic project been added to modkit? There must be a reasonable explanation for this and I hope that either you or NicoDE will give me a detailed answer. After all, test levels - they are not prohibited materials.

[Don-Esteban]

The demonstration of materials in the video is not a violation of the law..

This is not correct. We are in a German web forum and German law is used.
§52 Abs 3 UrhG (German copyright law) says, public presentation needs the agreement of the copyright holder. Maybe in other countries the law is different.

I cannot say anyhing to your topic, because I don't know something about it.
If you want to know something from NicoDE, it would be the best to write him a PN, I think.

[Phantom95]

If so, on what grounds did JohnnyB make the video about the sequel? Piranha Bytes have given your consent? why do this JohnnyB had to personally get any files?! these files should be part of the company ARHN, not specific people, especially since he himself gave the original project of the sequel to some people and still lied in his video that it was not.

[HerrFenrisWolf]

If so, on what grounds did JohnnyB make the video about the sequel? Piranha Bytes have given your consent? why do this JohnnyB had to personally get any files?! these files should be part of the company ARHN, not specific people, especially since he himself gave the original project of the sequel to some people and still lied in his video that it was not.

Johnny who?

[Phantom95]

Johnny who?

He used account here - JohnnyARHN. In Facebook - Jan Baryla

[Seelenschnitte]

*Knock, knock.*

Who ist there?

Johnny.

Johnny who?

[Schatten]

Ich bin ja immernoch der Ansicht, dass das Gesetz blöd ist und Inhalte, für die offensichtlich sowieso keiner Rechte geltend macht, öffentlich sein sollten bis irgendjemand belegt, dass er Rechte und ein Interesse daran hat. Und dann genügt eine Unterlassungspflicht. Wenn keiner weiß, wem was gehört und das auch nicht rausfinden kann, kann er auch keinen um Erlaubnis bitten oder eine Vergütung dafür zahlen, dass er es benutzt. Wenn irgendwo ein Haus steht, das keiner mehr benutzt und von dem keiner weiß, wem's gehört, dann lass ich das auch nicht zerfallen, sondern zieh ein oder lass jemanden anderen einziehen. Alles andere wäre dumm.

Wenn dir die Gesetzeslage nicht gefällt, solltest du das den Abgeordneten und Fraktionen des Bundestages mitteilen. Diese können Gesetze verändern und zur Prüfung vorlegen.

Aber wir werden hier leider keine Gesetze ändern, so sinnlos sie (in meinen Augen) auch sind.

Genau wegen so einer Einstellung ändert sich auch nichts.

[Seelenschnitte]

Und ganz nebenbei... Nur weil uns ein Gesetz nicht gefällt, ist es desshalb doch noch nicht weniger bindend für uns, oder die Verantwortlichen dieses Forums.

Ich wüde das gerne auch auf Englisch, für Phantomas, schreiben. Aber hier schäme ich mich, weil mein Englisch bestimmt zu schlecht ist.

[Schatten]

Und ganz nebenbei... Nur weil uns ein Gesetz nicht gefällt, ist es desshalb doch noch nicht weniger bindend für uns, oder die Verantwortlichen dieses Forums.

Ich wüde das gerne auch auf Englisch, für Phantomas, schreiben. Aber hier schäme ich mich, weil mein Englisch bestimmt zu schlecht ist.

Bin ich vollkommen deiner Meinung. Mein Englisch ist jetzt auch nicht das beste, doch ich versuche es so gut es geht.


@Phantom95 Seelenschnitte wrote an interessing post. Just because we do not like a specific law, it is therefore no less binding for us or those responsible for the forum. Nevertheless, we must comply with the Terms of Service of the World of Players.

[Phantom95]

As Don Esteban says, it is necessary for Piranha Bytes to publish the files themselves or at least give permission for their publication, I do not know in what form orally or in writing in the form of an official document. In any case, it will be easier to change the decision of Piranha Bytes than the whole Legislation. But I don't see the German fan community showing much interest in alpha materials, that's the problem. The Polish and Russian community loves this game very much, and we're not going to stop at what we have - we need more content, more information about the early versions and resources of this game. If the situation does not change, we still will not stop, sooner or later we will get what we need.
We are doing our best, the Russian and Polish community has already United in achieving this goal. We're going to create an official petition for Piranha Bytes to see how many people want to see the alpha content...

[Don-Esteban]

As Don Esteban says, it is necessary for Piranha Bytes to publish the files themselves or at least give permission for their publication, I do not know in what form orally or in writing in the form of an official document. In any case, it will be easier to change the decision of Piranha Bytes than the whole Legislation. But I don't see the German fan community showing much interest in alpha materials, that's the problem. The Polish and Russian community loves this game very much, and we're not going to stop at what we have - we need more content, more information about the early versions and resources of this game. If the situation does not change, we still will not stop, sooner or later we will get what we need.

This was never the point in this thread. You can do what you want. But please do it not in our web forum. (But I was already writing this in some of my former posts and by now I think you don't want to understand me ...) Nobody wants to deny your efforts. Good luck anymore! But please don't popularise unpublished assets with copyright infringments in this web forum.

We are doing our best, the Russian and Polish community has already United in achieving this goal. We're going to create an official petition for Piranha Bytes to see how many people want to see the alpha content...

Statements from Piranha Bytes' director you can read (amongst others) here:

Isn't this a case of abandonware? Nobody knows who owns it, nobody will EVER publish it, it's abandonware, right?

No. Rights holders certainly do exist, have not waived all of their rights. The stuff itself was illegaly obtained and obviously never intended to be released.

Correctly this should read:

The current PB Team has no members of the founder team anymore, which created Gothic 1 and worked on the sequel.

No. We do not have these assets. Actually, apart from what was incorporated into Gothic 2 we never had.

Nein.

Wir wissen nicht einmal, was das im einzelnen für Daten sind. Sie stammen aus unbekannter Quelle. Es ist ohne weiteres möglich, dass enthalten ist:
- etwas, das nie zu dem Sequel gehört hat (was dazu gehörte und was nicht wüssten wir nicht einmal, wenn wir die Daten hätten - keiner von den heutigen Verantwortlichen hier hat an dem Ding mitgearbeitet. Siehe dazu Gothic in a Nutshell von Jan Baryla)
- etwas, für das die damalige Gesellschaft keine Rechte erworben hat, insbesondere weil der Urheber nicht bezahlt wurde, Übertragungen abgelaufen sind, was auch immer. Ich war damals nicht derjenige der die Verträge gemacht hat - ich war nicht einmal bei PB. Obendrein ist in der Zeit einiges recht dubios gelaufen, die Phenomedia ist nicht ohne Grund in Insolvenz gegangen. Akten aus der Zeit hat damals komplett der Staatsanwalt einkassiert und auch nie wieder herausgegeben.

And at last ...

If so, on what grounds did JohnnyB make the video about the sequel? Piranha Bytes have given your consent? why do this JohnnyB had to personally get any files?! these files should be part of the company ARHN, not specific people, especially since he himself gave the original project of the sequel to some people and still lied in his video that it was not.

Why you don't ask JohnnyB or Piranha Bytes but me? I have no part in JohnnyB's work and cannot say anything about his arrangements with PB concerning legal issues.

[Schatten]

We are doing our best, the Russian and Polish community has already United in achieving this goal. We're going to create an official petition for Piranha Bytes to see how many people want to see the alpha content...

If you do that when please share it with us. Then we can also help make the petition successful.

[Phantom95]

Don Esteban, in last post I not said about sequel, I'm talking about the content of the alpha version of Gothic 1 on which PB have right..

If you do that when please share it with us. Then we can also help make the petition successful.

Good...