[Markus Ramikin]

Hello!

In Risen 1, you cannot train sword/axe to levels 8-10 if you've joined the Order. I am looking for a simple mod that will let me do that. Just tweak the conditions on Fincher and Karakos so they will train you even as a Warrior or Mage. And just that, no rebalancing, no texture changes, just the training unlock.

I tried to search for a similar topic but a lot of the stuff is in German so I might have missed something. Sorry about that, if so.

So, if something like this exists, could someone please point me in the right direction? And if not, could one of you knowledgeable people put together such a mod?

Thank you!

[JFaron]

What you are asking for can be achieved by using cheats. Is there a special reason you are not doing this?

teach CombatAxe <value>
teach LP <value>

You can reduce your LP (by 10) and at the same time increase your axe-skill.

[Markus Ramikin]

Thank you for proposing an idea.

But I'd also have to reduce my gold. I don't think that can be done directly - give It_Gold -1000 doesn't work. I suppose I could do that by repeatedly buying and selling an item, but that's making the whole solution pretty clumsy. And besides, I'd prefer to be "modifying the game" rather than "cheating", even if it's functionally similar. Would it be a difficult mod to make?

[JFaron]

It is simple indeed. However, I won't go downstairs to grab a beer if there's one next to my desk. Maybe you could simply place that gold in a chest or something?

[Markus Ramikin]

You would, if that one trip were to also take care of any future beer-needs, not just one-time.

It is simple indeed.

Sounds like you know how to do it, then? I'd do it myself if I could, but I don't know anything about modding Risen, all the useful info seems to be in German. Currently I'm looking through everything I can using the tools included in the Risen Mod Starter, but I really don't think I'll be able to do this...

So if it's something that would take me hours or days to figure out while an experienced modder could do it in 5 minutes, any chance for assistance with this?

Halp!

[JFaron]

You would, if that one trip were to also take care of any future beer-needs, not just one-time.

I highly doubt, that there will be anyone using it, besides you. (And how would they know it exists?)

However, I just had a look though the files. While it is obvious that Fincher won't teach anyone from the monastery I couldn't find respective conditions for Karakos. In order to validate my assumptions I downloaded this Warrior-savegame (German thread) and I had no problem with Karakos teaching me axe to ten. In fact, I think I remember a German modder, who once told me, that the mage is always the strongest build, because he can use magic and max out the axe-skill (which is more effective than staffs or swords). To be absolutely sure I had a look in the official game guide, which usually has a warning box for any kind of special conditions (such as the affiliation to a certain guild) and it didn't say anything about Karakos.

So, are you sure that it doesn't work for you?

[Markus Ramikin]

Oh, you're right. Karakos does work. I was going by http://mikesrpgcenter.com/risen/training.html, which says otherwise, because I almost never go axes myself - so far I was more into swords or magic.

So how do I find and remove that condition from Fincher? Which file? What tool?

(And how would they know it exists?)

Google. I'm sure I'm not the only person who wanted to side with the Inquisitor and yet go swords all the way, so they'll find this topic. Or maybe it can be added to the mod database so it becomes downloadable via the risen mod starter - there seems to be an option for that in the program.

I think I remember a German modder, who once told me, that the mage is always the strongest build, because he can use magic and max out the axe-skill (which is more effective than staffs or swords).

Hm, interesting idea. But assuming level 27 as max, you'd be limited to 100 crystal, 90 axe, 80 strength, alchemy, scrolls, and gut animals. No extra mana, let alone utilities like ore prospecting or smithing. (I once created a LP-trainer spreadsheet to check such things). And I'm not sure I see the point. Crystal magic alone can easily kill anything. Pure mage is easy mode. And I'd much prefer to get at least 100 mana, to make medium mana potions effective.

As to axes being more effective - yeah, most seem to have a higher damage:strength ratio. But I like the long range on 2h swords.

[Kuchenschlachter]

I have to say something. We may seem a bit reluctant to help you and there is a reason for that. You're asking us to do something for you while showing little effort yourself. Yeah, you did search for it... The statement that most stuff is in german could almost be considered to be an insult. We discuss most topics in english despite all participants often beeing germans. I get that you are probably talking about ready to use mods but that again is an insult. You didn't try to solve it yourself you wanted a ready to use solution.

You're right, why should you waste hours while someone of us could solve it in let's be realistic 15-30 minutes. But that's something you don't tell the people your asking for help. Why should i care about your time. You don't care about mine. Also i see almost no value in what your asking for.

Now comes the point where i'd explain how to do it yourself but i'm quiet reluctant to do even that. There are a lot of topics discussing that stuff and you seem to be capable of using a search engine.

Here are some quick hints:
-The important files to you are the .xinf's. They define dialogs. They are in $(Risen)\data\raw\infos or something like that. There are about 5000 of them. Which one particularly? I have no idea, search for something like "Owner="Fincher"" and sword.
-To get them you'll have to export them. You need Script_library.dll and adjust mountlist_packed.ini.
-To repackage it for others to use you need RisenPak. The relevant file would be \data\compiled\library\infos.bin i think.
-There is quiet some stuff to consider in regards of compatability.

There is also a reason the first proposed solution was cheating. It is less clumsy than creating a well build, tested and distributed mod.

[Markus Ramikin]

I'm sorry if you felt that way. But I don't think this is entirely fair to me. The tutorial listing in this forums /is/ in German, the tutorials linked to in them /are/ in German, and I don't know how saying so is an insult. I did download the modding tools that I found and tried - at length - to figure out what can be done with them, so it's not that I didn't put in effort of my own, either.

But that got nowhere, and I suspected it would. I mean, I've modded other games before, and worked with other modders - mostly on Kotor 2 - and I know that getting anything done when you're starting fresh, without the know-how that experienced people take for granted, can take forever. While in a game that I knew how to mod, some requests I was able to do in literally 5 minutes and that included upload.

So the first logical question for me here was "has anyone already done this, or is this trivially easy". Maybe I was too frank about this, but it just seemed rational to me.

If that came across wrong, I apologize.

Thank you for the hints. I'll see what I can do with those.

EDIT: aha, I already see one of the reasons for my earlier problems. Some other topic I was reading said to create the raw/infos folder in the data/compiled (instead of just data), and that was why my export console command wasn't doing anything. Progress

[Markus Ramikin]

So, it looks like combat training-request dialogues are in files that contain "TeachMeMelee". Fincher's training seems to be governed by KALVERAMX2B_00218.xinf . It has these conditions:

	<Condition
		ClassName="gCInfoConditionPlayerNotKnows"
		PlayerNotKnows="MON"
	>
	</Condition>
	<Condition
		ClassName="gCInfoConditionPlayerNotKnows"
		PlayerNotKnows="Carlos_SolvedQuest4"
	>
	</Condition>

I thought removing these conditions would unlock training again, but it doesn't seem to work for my post-monastery saves.

As a test, I added an opposite condition, just to see if it would do anything:

	<Condition
		ClassName="gCInfoConditionPlayerKnows"
		PlayerKnows="MON"
	>
	</Condition>

And this indeed closed the training dialogue option for my pre-monastery character. So I know the changes to this file are doing something.

As another test, I saved the game, then removed the above condition and restarted Risen, and the dialogue option reappeared. So I know removing a dialogue option doesn't necessarily persist with a savegame.

Not sure how to proceed from here.

[Baltram]

The tutorial listing in this forums /is/ in German, the tutorials linked to in them /are/ in German

I'm sorry for most of the tutorials being in German. I'll translate mine eventually when I have more time.

[Baltram]

I thought removing these conditions would unlock training again, but it doesn't seem to work for my post-monastery saves.

In your post-monastery saves, is teach enabled for Fincher?

To find out, type edit Fincher in the console and navigate to PropertySets > Dialog > TeachEnabled. If it is 'False' set it to 'True' and press Enter with the Cursor still in the text field and try again if your modified teach dialog works now.

If this was indeed the problem you could remove the conditions in PANKRATZX2_00507 for your mod.

[Markus Ramikin]

Thanks, Baltram!

In your post-monastery saves, is teach enabled for Fincher?

To find out, type edit Fincher in the console and navigate to PropertySets > Dialog > TeachEnabled. If it is 'False' set it to 'True' and press Enter with the Cursor still in the text field and try again if your modified teach dialog works now.

Yes, that did work.

If this was indeed the problem you could remove the conditions in PANKRATZX2_00507 for your mod.

This didn't work for my later save, but I understand why now. PANKRATZX2_00507 is the pro-Don dialogue in response to "What do you do for the Don?", and in that later save my character had already asked this question.

I checked an earlier state, and found that just removing those conditions creates a buggy-looking dialogue, where I have to choose Fincher's response for him, and then he says both the pro-Don and pro-Inquisition versions of the dialogue. So instead of removing conditions from PANKRATZX2_00507 , I added setting Fincher as a teacher in PANKRATZX2_01377, which I figured out is the Inquisition version of that dialogue:

	<Command
		ClassName="gCInfoCommandSetTeachEnabled"
		Entity1="Fincher"
		TeachEnabled="True"
	>
	</Command>
	<Command
		ClassName="gCInfoCommandAddNPCInfo"
		Location="gEInfoLocation_Don"
		NPC="Fincher"
		Type="gEInfoNPCType_Teacher"
		Description="NPCINFO_KALVERAMX2B_2009-01-15_17-46-26_00"
	>
	</Command>

And it works

I'll know for sure if nothing is wrong with this only once I've completed a playthrough, but looks good so far.

Thanks again, guys.

[Kuchenschlachter]

Guess an appology is in order. I thought at least that old thread where we investigated and discussed infos the first time must be in english but it's actually so old it might be from i time before the english and german boards were merged. Besides you almost solved the problem with only those little hints i gave.
Sorry, i was wrong.

[Markus Ramikin]

No worries. And yup, those hints certainly were helpful.

[Markus Ramikin]

One more question. How exactly does compiling and compatibility work?

If I understand correctly, now that I've changed the two xinf files, I can do "library compile infos" to produce a compiled_infos.bin. Then I will need to pack it into a library.p** with RisenPak. OK.

But will this be incompatible with any other mods that change infos? Is there a way to produce library.p** files that only modify specific xinf files, and not override everything else?

PS. "library compile infos" gives me "WriteBinary failed". Any ideas why?

[JFaron]

Is there a way to produce library.p** files that only modify specific xinf files, and not override everything else?

Sadly, no. You would have to offer "compatibility patches", which basicely means, that you need to create your own compiled_infos.bin on the basis of every mod you want yours to be compatible with, in any possible combination. It is your luck, that there are basicely no mods, who change dialogs, beside the patch. So offering a version for the offical patch version (1.10) and the unofficial one should be enough.

PS. "library compile infos" gives me "WriteBinary failed". Any ideas why?

Try to run the game with administrator priviliges. Are there any files in your compiled\library-folder? Delete them.

[Baltram]

PS. "library compile infos" gives me "WriteBinary failed". Any ideas why?

Maybe Risen\data\compiled\library\compiled_infos.bin is write-protected?

[guenthar]

I've been playing Risen recently and it is pretty easy to max Sword skill before entering the city. I only went to level 8 since I decided that level 10 wasn't worthwhile and if I want 9 I'll just use a ring.

[Markus Ramikin]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. What actually helped, though, was restarting Risen and not loading any saves.

In other news, I'm trying to make this change compatible with the unofficial 1.3 patch. Does anyone know how p00, p01 override each other?

For example, suppose I have the following files in data/compiled:

library.p01, containing: compiled_infos, compiled_quests (from unofficial patch 1.3)
library p02, containing: compiled_infos (based on 1.3 but with my sword training change).

Will Risen use the "quests" from p01 and "infos" from p02?

EDIT: nope, that doesn't seem to work for me...