[Voice of Liberty]

I need an Olde English "800" 40 ounce just to get through this forum now....

P.S. and watch what you say about old farts.

there are good farts too

[Dino]

Those things, probably don't include :
- A elaborated speach, and a constructive discussion
- Advanced phisical movements, such as sports, combat, high speed running and obstacle passing

That's EXACTLY what I think about when I'm at a party and there's alcohol.
Yeah, you know, because that's what people do at parties - they have a deep super-advanced discussion about life, religion, politics, relationships and conspiracy.(some actually do, I've witnessed deep involved psychological conversations between two guys who were drunk. I remember they were talking about women and life in general... it was boring. Just as boring it would be if they were sober)
Because you know, no one likes to let go of serious things, problems, worries, pain and have some fun, goof around and stuff.

[ICFabian]

Because you know, no one likes to let go of serious things, problems, worries, pain and have some fun, goof around and stuff.

You can let go of stuff and goof around without pissing on your poor brain.

Also hi Dino, how are you?

[KGS]

Because you know, no one likes to let go of serious things, problems, worries, pain and have some fun, goof around and stuff.

it's evolution, just evolution

[Dino]

You can let go of stuff and goof around without pissing on your poor brain.

Also hi Dino, how are you?

Oh, been better but I can't complain.

Don't really wanna argue there but alcohol is fun as long as you don't overdo it.
I drink because I like the taste, not to get wasted. For me there's nothing better than a cool beer in the summer or a big glass of nice whiskey with ice in the evenings. That, however, is a whole new discussion to talk about so I'll cut it.

[Sakabato]

That's EXACTLY what I think about when I'm at a party and there's alcohol.
Yeah, you know, because that's what people do at parties - they have a deep super-advanced discussion about life, religion, politics, relationships and conspiracy.(some actually do, I've witnessed deep involved psychological conversations between two guys who were drunk. I remember they were talking about women and life in general... it was boring. Just as boring it would be if they were sober)
Because you know, no one likes to let go of serious things, problems, worries, pain and have some fun, goof around and stuff.

Wheren't you gone? I mean, forever?..Whatever...

I can imagine two drunk men barely standing on their own two feet, puking at clear sight, and at the same time having nicely educated discussions about what so ever...

[Hellbilly]

I can imagine two drunk men barely standing on their own two feet, puking at clear sight, and at the same time having nicely educated discussions about what so ever...

Again, yes, being drunk is a binary state.

Not.

Seems like a hard thing to understand, doesn't it?

This is exactly the same as saying anyone into sports is a sport junkie whose personal life is a wreck, whose health is endangered and whose mind is addicted to excessive sports, and that is why sporting is bad. Because some people are like this, everyone must be, so you're a sporting junkie Sakabato and it's ruining your health and life and you're obviously very despicable for it. At least by your own logic.

[Sakabato]

Again, yes, being drunk is a binary state.

Not.

I understand what you are saying. Thing is, we don't usually call someone who had a couple beers or a shot or two "drunk". The guys usually say the one is "happy", drunk we call someone who can't stand the drink, and get's to a ridiculous state.
And when I mean "we" I say here in Portugal.

I'm not saying it's a binary state, I'm just saying I don't consider someone who had two or three beers "drunk", and yes, that person can probably still have a good conversation. But someone who is "wasted" like you say, can't, and that is certenly.

[Hellbilly]

You say you understand being drunk is not a binary state, and in the next sentence you again discuss it as if it were a binary state.

Also, you can't have a "good" discussion after the most exhausting of sporting feats either (as extreme physical exhaustion does temporarily mar your concentration and other necessary skills), so by that logic you shouldn't sport either... again. Your arguments seem to be based on the fact that being drunk stops you from doing this or that, but you forget that it isn't for life, it is only for a few hours. And if one knows one needs to engage in physically taxing activities or something requiring high co-ordination skills or the sharpest of mental capacities, one will not drink before that (lest one is stupid, but stupidity in such cases is not to be blamed on alcohol but on... yep, stupidity). Therefore, these "all-inclusive" arguments against are really rather weak. Would it not be better to just say "I don't wanna" instead of trying to come up with general-level arguments against alcohol, which thus far have all been rather weak? Because, really, "I don't wanna" is a good argument. Probably the best one there is.

[Sakabato]

You say you understand being drunk is not a binary state, and in the next sentence you again discuss it as if it were a binary state.

Also, you can't have a "good" discussion after the most exhausting of sporting feats either (as extreme physical exhaustion does temporarily mar your concentration and other necessary skills), so by that logic you shouldn't sport either... again. Your arguments seem to be based on the fact that being drunk stops you from doing this or that, but you forget that it isn't for life, it is only for a few hours. And if one knows one needs to engage in physically taxing activities or something requiring high co-ordination skills or the sharpest of mental capacities, one will not drink before that (lest one is stupid, but stupidity in such cases is not to be blamed on alcohol but on... yep, stupidity). Therefore, these "all-inclusive" arguments against are really rather weak. Would it not be better to just say "I don't wanna" instead of trying to come up with general-level arguments against alcohol, which thus far have all been rather weak? Because, really, "I don't wanna" is a good argument. Probably the best one there is.

Look at what I just wrote.

I said we don't consider someone who had a couple beers "drunk" just "happy", but someone who takes it to the extreme of drinking to forget, or because he\she sucks at life, then he\she is "wasted".
It's not that it's a binary state, but people don't usually divide it into classes. We just call it "happy" when someone starts to reach a state when he gets more out of the box, and then "drunk" when someone starts loosing controll. Then "wasted" if someone just falls in the ground unconsious, in alchoolic coma, for exemple.
Why I hate alchool? Because people who start entering that life are usually weak minded, and have the tendency to sink low and lower.
You are making a ridiculous comparation with sports, and I'm not even the typical "sports-guy", so it's even more ridiculous for you to mencion me like that.
Why it's ridiculous? Because everyone knows sports are healfy, it works your muscles, it helps circulating the blood, and you find yourself objectives in life, things you can follow, something alchool can't offer. Of course, getting addicted won't offer you anything, but that happens with anything, not just alchool and sports, but even with work, games, even sex.

[Hellbilly]

Look at what I just wrote.

I am looking. Look:

I said we don't consider someone who had a couple beers "drunk" just "happy", but someone who takes it to the extreme of drinking to forget, or because he\she sucks at life, then he\she is "wasted".

You are making a binary division: wasted is "drunk", everything else isn't. That's what a binary division is.

It's not that it's a binary state, but people don't usually divide it into classes. We just call it "happy" when someone starts to reach a state when he gets more out of the box, and then "drunk" when someone starts loosing controll. Then "wasted" if someone just falls in the ground unconsious, in alchoolic coma, for exemple.

You're not dividing it into classes, yet you divide it into classes. Self-contradictory, much? What I am doing is not dividing it into classes; being inebriated is drunk: that's NOT dividing it into classes. From what people call tipsy to what people call shitfaced is being drunk, is not using classes about it.

Why I hate alchool? Because people who start entering that life are usually weak minded, and have the tendency to sink low and lower.

Again with the false generalizations. I find it sad that a mere "because I don't wanna" doesn't suffice to you; you need to find reasons beyond yourself to justify your decision to you. Or at least that's how it seems, considering the false generalizations you keep on making.

You are making a ridiculous comparation with sports, and I'm not even the typical "sports-guy", so it's even more ridiculous for you to mencion me like that.

It's not ridiculous as a comparison. Swap sports for alcohol, and you've got your own thoughts on everyone using alcohol, even when faced with strong evidence of the contrary. By saying the above, you basically shoot yourself in the leg.

Because everyone knows sports are healfy

When not done in excess. If you haven't seen, read and heard of sports junkies who do it on the expense of their health, then it's not because they don't exist, but because you've in some incredible way missed it. And no, it's not at all silly or whatnot for me to mention you like that; you mention me like that in regards to alcohol, and yet the truth is completely the contrary; a fact which you just choose to ignore.

something alchool can't offer.

Then again, sports don't taste good, sports don't come in a variety of interesting-tasting, smelling and looking packages. Alcohol does. And there's no soda, no juice, no soft drink that tastes as exquisite as a glass of good whiskey, top quality cider or outstanding beer. Sports are a bad side-dish for an interesting discussion, sports go down bad with food, and so on.

[Aetherian]

Why I hate alchool? Because people who start entering that life are usually weak minded, and have the tendency to sink low and lower.
You are making a ridiculous comparation with sports, and I'm not even the typical "sports-guy", so it's even more ridiculous for you to mencion me like that.
Why it's ridiculous? Because everyone knows sports are healfy, it works your muscles, it helps circulating the blood, and you find yourself objectives in life, things you can follow, something alchool can't offer. Of course, getting addicted won't offer you anything, but that happens with anything, not just alchool and sports, but even with work, games, even sex.

For years I used to run 5-8 Km almost every day, workout in the weight room 3-5 days a week (nowadays I just lay down when I feel those urges until the mood goes away), then afterwards I would do the 12 oz curls with 1-3 beers during dinner and before bedtime. And I would juggle all that between work, games and even sex. Is that bad?

[Sakabato]

Then again, sports don't taste good, sports don't come in a variety of interesting-tasting, smelling and looking packages. Alcohol does. And there's no soda, no juice, no soft drink that tastes as exquisite as a glass of good whiskey, top quality cider or outstanding beer. Sports are a bad side-dish for an interesting discussion, sports go down bad with food, and so on.

Well, now that's just a matter of opinion..^_^

Again with the false generalizations. I find it sad that a mere "because I don't wanna" doesn't suffice to you; you need to find reasons beyond yourself to justify your decision to you. Or at least that's how it seems, considering the false generalizations you keep on making.

False generalizations?..Now that's very naive of you...^_^
True, not everyone who drinks go down, of course not, but many do. And you can't say the same for sports(since you are into comparing both things)..
God, you should have seen it here in Portimão in the passage of the Year. The idiotic teenagers where complitely scrued, I could say that, 45% of the people around me where drunk, and I mean really drunk. ^^'
Is that a way of enjoying life? Bottles broke on the street, people almost falling in the ground, and the team I asked to be placed in, had to help 3 people, 1 more wanted to go in the ambulance but he couldn't because it was already loaded.
A kid around his 16 was in alchoolic coma, is that normal? Yep, but it shouldn't be. Enjoying life? If you say so...
Binary state? If you say so...But truth is, people when go out at night, and drink, only have two thoughts, either want to be friendly and stay cool with their friends, have a nice party and what so ever. Or, drink, drink, and drink to see how much they can take, and how much "enjoyment" they can handle.

Now the question is, why are we having such a big discussion over this?
Perhaps because this is a forum, and this is Internet, and we don't know each other, so both speeches get mixed up, and reed in the wrong way some how. I don't care whatever you think about my way of thinking, if I'm this or that, and if I should change, of course, no one is perfect, and no one knows everything. You have a piece of truth and so do I, for both have a litle of experience on the matter. But let's keep it this way, ok? I'm done with this...

Stay cool... ; )

[Hellbilly]

False generalizations?..Now that's very naive of you...^_^

No, of you. You ignore proof and even statistics and make broadly false genralizations such as (I quote) "Because people who start entering that life are usually weak minded, and have the tendency to sink low and lower", which is based on no fact but a biased view on a minority of alcohol-users. You constantly imply that the majority of alcohol-users (not abusers, who are a much smaller group among alcohol consumers... as sports fanatics are among sports enthusiasts) suffer from some kind of addiction or weakness just because they, horror of horrors, like a stiff drink from time to time or enjoy a beer or two, or like to drink enough to get a bit drunk (eg. tipsy) from time to time. Which is, obviously, a false generalization. Sounds a lot like the anti-pot propaganda various interest groups come with from time to time, actually.

The idiotic teenagers where complitely scrued, I could say that, 45% of the people around me where drunk, and I mean really drunk. ^^'

So what? Do you know what being a teenager is about? Yep, experimenting. Testing your boundaries. Finding out what you can and cannot do. Humans are beings who must learn the hard way many things, such as that absolutely excessive alcohol use is not a very good thing. Of those 45%, 90% will in a few years' time learn to use it in moderation. Many teens do drink too much, but that is not so much due to the inherently evil nature of alcohol, which by the way is not Satan incarnate, but lack of proper attitude education from parents, but it is for most a passing phase. I should know, I'm past that age and both me and, with maybe one exception, all of my friends have pulled through it.

A kid around his 16 was in alchoolic coma

Again, using isolated incidents and examples as a sweeping generalization. Shall I make a list of people who've died or been injured in sports to prove how abominable and hazardous sports are?

But truth is, people when go out at night, and drink, only have two thoughts, either want to be friendly and stay cool with their friends, have a nice party and what so ever. Or, drink, drink, and drink to see how much they can take, and how much "enjoyment" they can handle.

Well, I've never been drinking with Portugese people; perhaps you have some genetically inherited weakness in you that makes you particularly susceptible to alcohol-related problems... but the Germans, Britons, Yanks, Finns, Swedes, Russians, Estonians and what have you who've been to the same parties and gigs as I have been to haven't just been out to get hammered. They've been out to have fun, and have consumed alcoholic drinks in the process, and some have gotten hammered and others have not, but it's all been through and through in the name of having fun and a good time. When we go out, we may well end up drunk, even totally plastered, but having fun and a good time is always no. 1 on the agenda, as it is for most people. "The truth" is maybe to be found somewhere, but not in your over-simplified take on things. The majority of people who drink when out partying do not drink just to get shitfaced. Just like there are those whose sporting habits are unhealthy, there are those whose alcohol consumption habits are unhealthy, but they need to be separated from the majority of alcohol consumers (unlike you're doing, trying to lump them all into one), as they suffer from what is classified as a disease today by many; just like addiction to sports or illegal drugs is.

The only conclusion I still can draw from your continued false, exaggerated generalizations and using isolated examples as if they were the norm, and your obvious zealous "hatred" is that you're justifying something to yourself and others, that you're trying to plug some insecurity or something to the effect regarding your own attitude towards alcohol. You shouldn't. If being a non-drinker is what you want to do and what feels right, it is so in itself; you do not need to use false propaganda-like generalizations and single out the relatively rare extreme examples to justify your stance, no matter how much peer pressure you may face due to your choice.

[KGS]

just evolution...
________________
i can recall being drunk and not loosing consciousness or puking all over the floor/people/bathroom

[Bastardo]

and not loosing consciousness or puking all over the floor/people/bathroom

Couldn't recall that either, but those people didn't fail to remind me.

[Gor_Na_Drak]

Even though I am in the business of getting people drunk I've never developed a taste for the stuff. Don't like beer, wine or liquor. But I remember a time back when I was about 16....17ish.

My friend and I were helping his new father in-law move into his house. He provided us with a 12 pack of beer. Which we consumed. Now since I hate the taste I tend to chug it down to get over the taste.

Now while doing all this chugging and moving my friend and I kinda borrowed, (stole), a big wine jug. But it was filled not with wine, but Cuban moonshine. After we had finished helping his father in-law into the house we went out into the middle of the desert to part take in our ill gotten booty. Of course I chugged it down, and within 30 minutes or so the bottle was gone, with about 2/3 inside of me. I don't remember anything else of that night....I had to be told of our exploits....which I won't go into detail here. But I do remember the next day. Needless to say that death seemed much more preferable to that feeling. I never have, nor will I ever get that drunk again, if at all.

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but being in the business I give you a little advice.

1. An aspirin or some such headache medicine is a good thing to take either before, but better after a night of drinking.

2. Drink a lot of water. The main reason for hang overs is dehydration mainly cause by the sugar in alcoholic beverages. Probably best to have a little water between each shot/glass

3. Don't mix your alcohol. If you start with beer, stay with beer. Start with wine, stay with wine. etc.

4. Please....try to avoid doing shots. Seems once you get to that point you can expect nothing but trouble and bad feelings the next day.

5. Never drink on an empty stomach. Heavy and even greasy foods are best. French fries (chips for you people in England), chicken tenders, pizza, potato skins, etc.

6. Jagermeister is evil.

[Aetherian]

6. Jagermeister is evil.

Jagermeister is yummy. So is Ouzo. Have some fond memories of Rhodes while partaking of the latter.