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  1. Beiträge anzeigen #1
    Dragonslayer Avatar von Omid-
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    Football Thread #5

    Our first football thread! The previous ones where about Soccer wich is an awfull sport!


    Have fun and here's the last thread.

  2. Beiträge anzeigen #2
    Knight Commander Avatar von Demonium
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    Holland deserved to win...



    Robben was one to one with Casillas. At 61' when Casillas luckily changed the course of the ball with his foot and saved Spain.

    At 82' Robben raced through and outpaced Puyol but could not beat Casillas because Puyol was holding him with his right hand and even when he fell down, he was still hanging from his tshirt for a second. Robben lost his speed, his balance and Casillas grabbed the ball in the end and Robbens leg as well...
    Even if Casillas got the ball with ought a foul (ok lets say it wasnt a foul), Robben had been fouled from Puyol! This was a clear foul just outside the region and Puyol should have been charged with a second yellow card...Thats why Robben complained to referee.
    The referee instead gave Robben a yellow card...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CivxkPE_J1M


    And Heitinga got a second red card because he beraly touched Iniesta...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcGvYgzq6yg


    the winning goal came after a corner that was not given for Netherlands.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDAaAxrzqxo
    You must be either blind or payed from FIFA to pretend the blind.

    Elias was fouled exactly a few seconds before the winning goal of Spain, just outside the goalkeepers region. Also the same video claims that Iniesta was offside when the first pass aimed him...
    And proves to be right...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wWq9FUyJHY

    De Jong did a terrible foul on Allonso, (thats true) and got a yellow card instead of a red one.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMrgr...eature=related

    But Iniesta did also an anti-athletic foul and he just received a warning. Not even a yellow card. Nobody mentioned this.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH4JjsK5xtc

    I already mentioned huge and terrible "mistakes" from the referees that changed completely the result of the final.

    And this is only a few mistakes from the entire mundial...
    I have only one thing to say.
    FIFA sucks.

    Netherlands were way better than Spain.
    And Spain shouldnt even win Paraguay. Because Paraguay played much better.

    Robben agrees
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbUfZ...eature=related

  3. Beiträge anzeigen #3
    Knight Commander Avatar von Bamfy
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    +1 Demonium.
    Also, am I the only one who thinks that in the first half, Iniesta faulted more than usualy (and one fault was pretty tough) and should have received a yellow card?
    Thank you fifa, for fucking up the teams that I wanted to win this WC.

  4. Beiträge anzeigen #4
    Sword Master Avatar von Black Sphere
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    First off, just that this is clear; as I said I didn't care who will won the cup (I didn't had a favourite in the finals). In my opinion the luckier and more skilful team won.

    Now, some of you are pretty biased, which to some point can be understood, but to be biased to a point your view get tunnel narrowed certainly is not a sign of a mature person but a football fan on a primitive stage.

    I won't say there's also a lack of knowledge of elementary and basic football rules but... I just said it.

    There are, in my book, quite some wrong views/statements caused by such behaviour as described above. As there's too much of them all to be addressed, I took under the scope the last one:

    Zitat Zitat von Demonium Beitrag anzeigen
    At 82' Robben raced through and outpaced Puyol but could not beat Casillas because Puyol was holding him with his right hand and even when he fell down, he was still hanging from his tshirt for a second. Robben lost his speed, his balance and Casillas grabbed the ball in the end and Robbens leg as well...
    Even if Casillas got the ball with ought a foul (ok lets say it wasnt a foul), Robben had been fouled from Puyol! This was a clear foul just outside the region and Puyol should have been charged with a second yellow card...Thats why Robben complained to referee.
    The referee instead gave Robben a yellow card...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CivxkPE_J1M
    There was nothing of such. Puyol didn't hold Robben with his hand, he clearly obstructed him with his body. As Robben stayed on his feet the ref allowed the action to continue (the rule of the advantage). If Robben would fall there would be a free kick and a red card for Puyol (last man and proffesional foul rules). So, everything here according to the football rules was normal and ruled by the rules and a ref (re)acted as he should. Complaining AFTER the action is finished, after you didn't score, is just one of stupidities players are doing on the field, and such stupidities are usually rewarded with a yellow card.

    And Heitinga got a second red card because he beraly touched Iniesta...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcGvYgzq6yg
    In this case Iniesta would came into so called clear goal chance (only goaly to beat) if he wouldn't be fouled (there was a foul we agree on that yes?). As Heitinga was not a last man (in the defensive line) he received 'only' a yellow card otherwise he would go under the shower (red card).

    the winning goal came after a corner that was not given for Netherlands.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDAaAxrzqxo
    You must be either blind or payed from FIFA to pretend the blind.
    Netherlands regained the ball possesion after that ref's mistake, so this mistake became irrelevant for the goal itself i.e. it didn't had a direct effect on the goal being scored.

    Elias was fouled exactly a few seconds before the winning goal of Spain, just outside the goalkeepers region. Also the same video claims that Iniesta was offside when the first pass aimed him...
    And proves to be right...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wWq9FUyJHY
    That 'foul' under Elias was so called space opstruction foul (moving into the line of oposite player's progress). Some refs certainly would gave a foul there but many more wouldn't. Iniesta was offside but the ball didn't reached him so the play correctly continues. If Iniesta would got that ball in that position I'm 100% certain action would be stopped (offside).

    De Jong did a terrible foul on Allonso, (thats true) and got a yellow card instead of a red one.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMrgr...eature=related
    One of the biggest ref's mistakes in that match. And that 'that's true' of yours clearly indicating that you're biased; to be kinda reluctant to addmit that such 'a foul for a jail' was a foul at all, or that it was a terrible foul says enough for itself.

    But Iniesta did also an anti-athletic foul and he just received a warning. Not even a yellow card. Nobody mentioned this.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH4JjsK5xtc
    Yes, but (again) you don't see, or you don't want to see, how previously Van Bommel started on him with vicious intention and INTENTIONALLY stepped on his foot. This was clearly a tactic of the Netherlands in this match; they played aggressively (which is OK) and 'viciously-butcherly' (which is not so OK). They tried to parry on such way to the Spains which I can understand, but I can't support. Such tactics are usually marks of technically inferior teams.

    I already mentioned huge and terrible "mistakes" from the referees that changed completely the result of the final.

    And this is only a few mistakes from the entire mundial...
    I have only one thing to say.
    FIFA sucks.

    Netherlands were way better than Spain.
    And Spain shouldnt even win Paraguay. Because Paraguay played much better.

    Robben agrees
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbUfZ...eature=related
    Sorry to say this for the end but this is just a horseshit.

  5. Beiträge anzeigen #5
    Dragonslayer Avatar von Omid-
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    I agree we weren't very nice, we should've gotten 2 red cards. That's not including the red card from Heitinga. He barely touched Iniesta, Iniesta made a schwalbe wich he also did before, wich also got his opponent a red card. I think De Jong's action against Alonso was awfull and stupid. But what Iniesta did was just dirty, and they call Robben a diver. I think the ref defenitly influenced the match's outcome, there should've been 2 reds on both sides. His fatal decision however was the corner he didn't give wich could've changed everything. He didn't so the guy who should've gotten the darkest red, scored. You can say all you want about if we played better we maybe had won, and we should blame the loss on ourselves and you will be partly right. But for the most part the referee nailed us, i'm 100% sure we would've won the penalties because we have better penalty-takers and a better keeper.

    Yes better keeper, don't go in a discussion with me about this, i think Casillas is the most overated keeper ever.

  6. Beiträge anzeigen #6
    Sword Master Avatar von Black Sphere
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    I'm pretty sure these tears of yours are quite tasty for the Spain fans.

  7. Beiträge anzeigen #7
    Dragonslayer Avatar von Omid-
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    Zitat Zitat von Black Sphere Beitrag anzeigen
    I'm pretty sure these tears of yours are quite tasty for the Spain fans.
    Tears? I'm happy as fuck. A country of 16 million players got to the finals! I might have some tears of joy but i'm defenitly not sad

  8. Beiträge anzeigen #8
    Dragonslayer Avatar von Nefekto
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    ololololololo, as usually the fans of one team will only see what they want. I liked Omid's part when he said they'd have won at the penalties if the ref had made the right decisions. Well you wouldn't have even made it to the penalties, the match would have been over till the end of 90 minutes, or you think that Holland with 9 players could have beaten Spain with 11?

    In the second half the ref tried to cover up his fck ups by giving Holland some yellow cards that were unnecessary, he should have given the red cards from the beginning and I'm pretty sure the match would have been more "cleaner" than it was.

    The spanish players aren't stupid and of course they realized what the ref was trying to do in the second half so they used that (and who wouldn't have?) against Holland.

    Webb did the mistake that a russian ref did in 06 at Portugal vs Holland (I think) when there were a lot of yellow cards and ~ 3-4 red cards, he lost control of the match.

  9. Beiträge anzeigen #9
    Dragonslayer Avatar von Omid-
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    Nahh, Van Bommel didn't deserve a red card for what he did. Sure it was retarted and waaay too agressive but giving direct red was probably too harsh. De Jong didn't see Alonso, but that doesn't change a thing, that was dark red. Oh and you're forgetting that Puyol should've gotten red for trying to pull Robben down and Iniesta for defenitly schwalbing (nailing van Bronckhorst) and asking for cards the entire time and eventually schwalbing again at Heitinga. Spain deserved to win, but you can't overlook the ref's mistakes. If he had been correct in the fatal moments, we would've never gotten red and we would've had a corner. Penalties we would've won, i'm a million percent sure.


    Anyway, saying Spain used the ref to nail us to their advantage just proves it all. Spain was willing to do anything for the win, so was Holland, wich resulted in an awfull match wich wasn't a good, it was the fucking final! Nobody should win like this, but ofcourse Spain doesn't give a fuck, they won! Hell, i'd be happy too! Sure ref, make some fatal decisions and let us win, i'd still be happy as fuck! Oh well... the best team didn't win. There was another team, equal to them.

  10. Beiträge anzeigen #10
    Dragonslayer Avatar von Nefekto
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    Zitat Zitat von Omid- Beitrag anzeigen
    Oh and you're forgetting that Puyol should've gotten red for trying to pull Robben down and Iniesta for defenitly schwalbing (nailing van Bronckhorst) and asking for cards the entire time and eventually schwalbing again at Heitinga.
    After seeing that the ref gives yellow cards instead of red they of course also started playing more aggressively, they didn't play harsh in the beginning, did they?

  11. Beiträge anzeigen #11
    General Avatar von alyn26
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    SPAIN WON! POINT. THE END! BASTA!
    Happiness is what motivates me through its absence!

    Faith is what makes you weak!

    Love is nothing but an egocentric game.

  12. Beiträge anzeigen #12
    General Avatar von Khaled
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    Zitat Zitat von alyn26 Beitrag anzeigen
    SPAIN WON! POINT. THE END! BASTA!
    GTFO of here

  13. Beiträge anzeigen #13
    Knight Commander Avatar von Demonium
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    That 'foul' under Elias was so called space opstruction foul (moving into the line of oposite player's progress). Some refs certainly would gave a foul there but many more wouldn't.
    Elias was CLEARLy fouled, because 2 players fell on 1 player at the same time. Both players fell on Elia at the same time, squeezed him and Ramos blocked his way. This was a clear foul from Ramos and also a 2 vs 1 foul...Ramos wanted to block his way through. He didnt run for the ball. Its freaking obvious.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLgQIH8YO-0
    It was no different from the second yellow descision earlier on Heitinga. Heitinga had his hands on Iniesta, took them away, then Iniesta fell to the ground.

    Iniesta was offside but the ball didn't reached him so the play correctly continues. If Iniesta would got that ball in that position I'm 100% certain action would be stopped (offside).
    He was in Offside at the beggining and in the second opportunity he took advantage of his position.
    The rule of offside is that if the player has an impact on the flow of play, it must be blown dead. Iniesta obviously did have an impact because the ball was going to him and thats why Van der Vaart was forced into the clearance, so by the rulebook it should have been blown dead. However it wasnt called, Spain scored and won the cup.

    Also removing his shirt was a yellow card. Plus one that he got before, that means he shouldnt play in the last 2 minutes after the goal.

    There was nothing of such. Puyol didn't hold Robben with his hand, he clearly obstructed him with his body
    Clearly yes. i like that word in your sentence...Not only he obstructed him with his body, but it was clearly and obvious as well...
    Take a closer look at Puyol wile the Dutch is flying. Fasten your seat belt...Robben is taking off...
    [Bild: z8iyaacv.jpg]
    Actually if you will take a closer look at this, it is even better than De Jongs kong fu...ahahahaha!!! This is Judo wrestling...

    This is what Robben said in an interview afterwards...

    “When I got my second chance the referee should have given us a free kick and Puyol a (second) yellow card,”

    “He gave the advantage but there was none as I could hardly move and the goalkeeper was too close already.”


    Yes, but (again) you don't see, or you don't want to see, how previously Van Bommel started on him with vicious intention and INTENTIONALLY stepped on his foot
    Thats not an excuse for the anti athletic behavior of Iniesta afterwards.

    Zitat Zitat von Nefekto Beitrag anzeigen
    After seeing that the ref gives yellow cards instead of red they of course also started playing more aggressively, they didn't play harsh in the beginning, did they?
    Since when a tackle from behind is a red card? Just name one match in this Mundial that a player got a red card for a tackle. All those yellow cards were simply yellow...And 2-3 of them were just fouls from tackle because they went for the ball...

    As for red carts. Netherlands should get 2 reds and Spain 2 as well...
    Geändert von Demonium (13.07.2010 um 03:46 Uhr)

  14. Beiträge anzeigen #14
    Dragonslayer Avatar von Nefekto
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    Zitat Zitat von Maesstro Beitrag anzeigen
    If Netherlands hadn't remained with only 10 players, they would have surely won.
    Really? They had 90 minutes before the red card (+ ET), why didn't they win in regular time then?

    Zitat Zitat von Demonium Beitrag anzeigen
    Netherlands should get 2 reds and Spain 2 as well...
    If Holland had received the red cards they deserved then Spain wouldn't have played as harsh as they did.

    btw, take a look at Iniesta's legs after the match (after 1:00) [click], oh wait let me guess... he did that to himself?
    Geändert von Nefekto (13.07.2010 um 14:21 Uhr)

  15. Beiträge anzeigen #15
    Knight Commander
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    I was supporting the Dutchmen but I must have been watching a different match.

  16. Beiträge anzeigen #16
    General Avatar von Colonelu
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    Zitat Zitat von Maesstro Beitrag anzeigen
    Netherlands played better the whole match.
    Thats the best joke i heard today
    They were awfull, Uruguay or even Germany should have been in that place. Holland is the best at K1, proven by their soccer players.
    sig

  17. Beiträge anzeigen #17
    Sword Master Avatar von Black Sphere
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    Zitat Zitat von Demonium Beitrag anzeigen
    Elias was CLEARLy fouled, because 2 players fell on 1 player at the same time. Both players fell on Elia at the same time, squeezed him and Ramos blocked his way. This was a clear foul from Ramos and also a 2 vs 1 foul...Ramos wanted to block his way through. He didnt run for the ball. Its freaking obvious.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLgQIH8YO-0
    It was no different from the second yellow descision earlier on Heitinga. Heitinga had his hands on Iniesta, took them away, then Iniesta fell to the ground.
    As I said; such defenders intervention can be and it is categorised as foul but not many refs (especially not the english one) are giving it, as such fouls came under the 'free ref judgement' category (not entirely clearly defined if such intervention is a foul or it's not). From your (biased) view ofc it's obvious, for some others, including the mayority of refs isn't so obvious what to rule in such cases of space opstruction. This is kinda undefined in football rules so as mentioned it's leaved to the free ref judgement. And there's no such thing as '2 vs 1 foul'.

    He was in Offside at the beggining and in the second opportunity he took advantage of his position.
    The rule of offside is that if the player has an impact on the flow of play, it must be blown dead. Iniesta obviously did have an impact because the ball was going to him and thats why Van der Vaart was forced into the clearance, so by the rulebook it should have been blown dead. However it wasnt called, Spain scored and won the cup.
    Offside is ruled if / when the ball reaches the player (in offside) and not before that. Untill then it's generally a passive offside. That's why the refs wait with rulling offsides until ball really reach the player - player receives the ball. Times when the linesman raised his flag immediately when the player was in offside are long gone by now. Passive offside is over-ruled only in ocasions when the player - any player from the same team! - in passive offside strongly influencing on the play (obstructing goalie's sight of view, deflecting the ball, etc). Iniesta didn't influenced on a play on such way at that moment, uncontrary, ball was meant to him but he didn't received it, by passive offside rules a completely normal situation, seen millions of times by now, so the play continues. So again, that was a normal play, so no ref mistake there.

    Also removing his shirt was a yellow card. Plus one that he got before, that means he shouldnt play in the last 2 minutes after the goal.
    As I can remember Iniesta got yellow for taking off the shirt, but I can't remeber when he got 'the first' yellow. Can you ?

    Clearly yes. i like that word in your sentence...Not only he obstructed him with his body, but it was clearly and obvious as well...
    Take a closer look at Puyol wile the Dutch is flying. Fasten your seat belt...Robben is taking off...
    [Bild: z8iyaacv.jpg]
    Actually if you will take a closer look at this, it is even better than De Jongs kong fu...ahahahaha!!! This is Judo wrestling...

    This is what Robben said in an interview afterwards...

    “When I got my second chance the referee should have given us a free kick and Puyol a (second) yellow card,”

    “He gave the advantage but there was none as I could hardly move and the goalkeeper was too close already.”
    That 'pulling' still can be categorised as body obstruction. That was 'a last attempt' to stop Robben as is evident Puyol already was falling. Still, I wouldn't categorise this as pulling or holding for a shirt as you claimed. Nevertheless Robben should fall and that would be it; a free kick and a direct red card for Puyol. Iniesta did fell when was 'time for it', Robben did not. He continued with the action, with his play. Would he complain if he would score from that action? I seriously doubt it. So these comments of his belongs into dumbass category, similary as that comment of yours that this was worse than De Jong's kung fu.

    Thats not an excuse for the anti athletic behavior of Iniesta afterwards.
    It is not, but it is in my eyes a justifiable reaction on that dirty, unsportive and dangerous Van Bommel's start. Btw, Van Bommel was so dirty / intentional during the whole match. So this 'justifying' of yours is really poor and again you're so biased that is detestable; you can see Iniesta's reaction but you're kinda still not able to see Van Bommel's dirty play.

    Zitat Zitat von Maesstro Beitrag anzeigen
    They didn't lose either in the regular time. Spain managed to score only after Netherlands remained with 10 people, that's why it's a shameful victory for them. Netherlands played better the whole match. If they had remained 11, they would have been the winners.
    If Netherlands by any chance would won by a goal in 125th minute would be a great and majetic win for them wouldn't be?

  18. Beiträge anzeigen #18
    Dragonslayer Avatar von Omid-
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    Zitat Zitat von Colonelu Beitrag anzeigen
    Thats the best joke i heard today
    They were awfull, Uruguay or even Germany should have been in that place. Holland is the best at K1, proven by their soccer players.
    I do remember a part where we dominated. From the first 20 minutes to about the 40th minute


    Still, it's complete bullshit to say things like we're best at K1, nobody complained when Robben was physicly abused against Brazil, now that De Jong made an accidental kick, we're suddenly the harshest team, right?

  19. Beiträge anzeigen #19
    General Avatar von Colonelu
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    Zitat Zitat von Omid- Beitrag anzeigen
    I do remember a part where we dominated. From the first 20 minutes to about the 40th minute


    Still, it's complete bullshit to say things like we're best at K1, nobody complained when Robben was physicly abused against Brazil, now that De Jong made an accidental kick, we're suddenly the harshest team, right?
    Holland's game at the start was good, i specially liked how Sniejder played, but Robben and Van Persie did almost nothing ( i know Robben had some good occasions but thats because Spain defenders failed and the pass was the thing that counted there), and hollands midfielders ( except Sniejder) did nothing than faults. Spain didnt played very good too ( a lot of misses from David Villa that i didnt expected, i thought more of him), Fabregas and Torres = 0.

    How can you say that your not the best at K1?!?! Most of the best kickboxers and champions are from Holland ( take exemple of Bonjasky) looky here if you dont beleive me : Click
    sig

  20. Beiträge anzeigen #20
    Dragonslayer Avatar von Omid-
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    Spain defenders didn't fail, Robben won. It's a known fact, if Robben cuts inside to the left like usual, you cannot stop him. It's impossible for the human mind to think fast enough, that's why everyone needs 3-4 defenders to hold him off


    Btw, that's really been tested and proven.

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