[Omid-]

Erm... no. Once I familiarised myself with it it wasn't too difficult. Oh, yeah, sorry, I forgot. Orcs have to be fought like strafe-left-strafe-left-strafe-left.

You don't know half of it

Now I ask you. Did you fail at G3? Did you even play it or do you just join the bandwagon because all the cool kids hate G3?

Wait, what. Who said something about Gothic 3? Hey, i liked that bug party! It was the only party i was allowed to . But a damn nice one it was! I just loved clicking my way through.

Oh and i'm not being sarcastic

[Rale]

My favourite thing in Risen is to use the power charged attack at the move the hero rotates, because after that comes the critical blow, and with the power attack I stop their parry. Cool stuff, kinda feels playing Risen like watching a cool movie

I liked counter attack too. Should any creature come too close to me I just slice it with counter attack

[Alwin]

Wait, what. Who said something about Gothic 3? Hey, i liked that bug party! It was the only party i was allowed to . But a damn nice one it was! I just loved clicking my way through.

Oh and i'm not being sarcastic

Also the click-fest of GIII and the tactical figthing style of GI and GII will cut the through the soldiers of Cyrodiil like a knife through butter (especially the one from GIII,I never thougth that the flaws of the third game would prove usefull one day)

Hmm. I wonder who said anything about Gothic 3.

You don't know half of it

Wait, what. Who said something about Gothic 3? Hey, i liked that bug party! It was the only party i was allowed to . But a damn nice one it was! I just loved clicking my way through.

Oh and i'm not being sarcastic

Because G1 and G2 weren't full of bugs. Well, I am being sarcastic.

I don't really wish to boil this down to whether G2/G1 or G3 is better since I won't change your preference in any of these matters. But it's been a long time since I've last played the first two Gothics. What exactly is it that doesn't boil down to what I said above? IIRC blocking was all weird in G1 - your character stopped blocking at random times and pure offense was the way to go. G2 was a bit better in this regard because blocking was actually pretty useful there against single humanoids. That adds a block-block-forward-block-block-forward element. I'm not convinced. =/

[Omid-]

You just don't get me do you?

[KingOvi]

You just don't get me do you?

Probably he does but he doesn't feel the need to prove so

[Hellbilly]

Dude, do you read what I post or you just keep rambling on and on without a point?

Ditto.

The universe could be the same.

Could, yes. And Fallout could be TES. Could. Could is not is. All there is to go by are some similarities, which could also prove nothing but a woeful lack of imagination or lack of time, or both, on PB's behalf.

If, once the PB's regain the rights to the name Gothic, they choose to continue it and write Risen into the Gothic continuum, then it's clear as day. Now, it's just fanboy conjecture and wishful thinking based on circumstantial clues to assume that hey yeah, the similarities must mean that Risen is Gothic. Like I said, all it could prove is that the PB's didn't want to, couldn't or didn't have time to create a proper new universe but rather just made a cheap re-working of whatever tidbits they had for a Gothic 4; this does not make it a part of the Gothic universe, just like Heaven & Hell isn't Black Sabbath despite consisting of all-Black Sabbath members.

Yes,but the magic of TES is like a naturalforce of nature,where the gothic magic is a more of a divine nature (I always wondered why they were still called mages and magi,when clearly the title of priest would fit them).

Some of the magic in TES is of a more divine nature and practised especially by people with a religious office; especially in Oblivion there is a stronger inclination towards that.

The point is,divine gods of gothic >natural magic used by peasents.

That's pretty much a flawed argument IMO, because
a) you're assuming the world Gothic is somehow stronger than the world of TES; what if it's the other way around, that even the simplest peasant magic of the TES universe equals sixth circle magic in Gothic?
b) you don't know the ultimate, original source of the magic in TES
c) remember that also in TES, the majority of non-mages who use spells use scrolls. As in Gothic. Only cheap healing spells and such are usually used by non-mages, not all too dissimilar from paladin runes; they require no magical knowledge or training, it's just a decision of the mages and paladins to limit their use to paladins only, not a limitation imposed by the nature of magic (eg. anyone can use paladin runes, and anyone can increase their mana)

It's imposible to make usefull spells in the TES.The spells of Morgrad are more potent.

On the contrary, I think the magic systems in both Morrowind and Oblivion are far more useful and potent than the ones seen in any Gothic. They are more complex, more diverse and the ability to make your own spells makes them much more customizable to your own needs than the magic of Gothic.

[Hav'caaren An'givare]

Ditto.



Could, yes. And Fallout could be TES. Could. Could is not is. All there is to go by are some similarities, which could also prove nothing but a woeful lack of imagination or lack of time, or both, on PB's behalf.

If, once the PB's regain the rights to the name Gothic, they choose to continue it and write Risen into the Gothic continuum, then it's clear as day. Now, it's just fanboy conjecture and wishful thinking based on circumstantial clues to assume that hey yeah, the similarities must mean that Risen is Gothic. Like I said, all it could prove is that the PB's didn't want to, couldn't or didn't have time to create a proper new universe but rather just made a cheap re-working of whatever tidbits they had for a Gothic 4; this does not make it a part of the Gothic universe, just like Heaven & Hell isn't Black Sabbath despite consisting of all-Black Sabbath members.



Some of the magic in TES is of a more divine nature and practised especially by people with a religious office; especially in Oblivion there is a stronger inclination towards that.



That's pretty much a flawed argument IMO, because
a) you're assuming the world Gothic is somehow stronger than the world of TES; what if it's the other way around, that even the simplest peasant magic of the TES universe equals sixth circle magic in Gothic?
b) you don't know the ultimate, original source of the magic in TES
c) remember that also in TES, the majority of non-mages who use spells use scrolls. As in Gothic. Only cheap healing spells and such are usually used by non-mages, not all too dissimilar from paladin runes; they require no magical knowledge or training, it's just a decision of the mages and paladins to limit their use to paladins only, not a limitation imposed by the nature of magic (eg. anyone can use paladin runes, and anyone can increase their mana)



On the contrary, I think the magic systems in both Morrowind and Oblivion are far more useful and potent than the ones seen in any Gothic. They are more complex, more diverse and the ability to make your own spells makes them much more customizable to your own needs than the magic of Gothic.

This is blasphemy...This is...madness...

Spoiler:(zum lesen bitte Text markieren)

[Th13f]

Actually, in Gothic, there were spell scrolls with Circle 4 spells, like Fire Rain. IMO, in Gothic, "high magic" is far more accessible to the average people than in TES. True, there are spell scrolls in TES as well as in Gothic, but in Gothic, aside from the basic fireball/healing/light stuff, there are also transformation spells (transformation magic is one of the main advantages the Gothic universe has over TES) and advanced spells. For the TES levitation spells, Fire Rain or Hailstorm could be used to counter flyers. And, you seem to have forgotten, but Gothic has its own equivalent of the paralysis and poison combo. Ice Block does the same (damage and immobilization) and Ice Wave is an area of effect spell with these effects. The spells of Gothic are simpler than the combined ones from TES, but far more potent and destructive and far more accessible to the common folk. Let us also remember the summoning magic of Gothic. Aside from summon Demon, skelleton, etc that are common in both universes, in Gothic you have the Army of Darkness spell. The main advantage Gothic has is superior technology and resources. Magic Ore is a big advantage over TES and the cannons that the Gothic universe has would even the odds against the TES superior numbers. Combine it with the Gothic magic and other aspects and Gothic is victorious.

EDIT: Let us also bring into the picture the spell Bloodlust from G3, which would cause havoc amongst the TES fighters.

[Hav'caaren An'givare]

Let's not forget about the time-buble (the most powerfull spale from all three gothics).I would like to see they'e poisoned arrows then .Plus the poison is much more potent in Varant,because it is almost a permanent effect on youre sword,not like in oblivion were after one hit it's gone.Also,the Morgrad has better smiths,because Myrtana's weapons degrade more slowly than those kitchen knives of the imperials

[Th13f]

Better smiths and better materials. As I said, the superior technology of Morgrad used in smithing, potions (transformation potion, hehe.), more powerful magic, etc.

[Hellbilly]

You in turn forget many of the spell effects on TES; magic resistance, which nullifies any and all spell effects in contrast to Gothic, which only has protection against magic damage. Spells like calm monster/humanoid would also effectively disable the whole of Gothic's armies, even the immortal creatures, as they are not immune to such magic effects.

Also, yeah, transformation magic is certainly a huge pro for Gothic, at least if they transform to something other than sheep, but the über-potions I already mentioned, like "Restore 25 health for 90 seconds" and the ability to "stack" their effects give a huge edge to the TES armies. Also, the ability to have home-made, very potent enchanted weapons, even ranged ones, would IMO counter-balance the cannons and ore weapons quite well, especially considering the rarity of ore weapons and how commonplace enchanted weapons are in especially Morrowind.

Also, I still don't buy how Gothic's magic is supposedly more powerful. It's far more varied in TES (despite the lack of transformation magic), and as far as effects go, they're pretty much equal, although TES has the advantage that you can give an extended duration even to area effect spells. Also, the spellcasters of TES could have far more reactionary strategies and create new spells that are tailored for each particular situation, whereas Gothicm ages would have to do with the runes and, in the case of G3 mages, the ancient magic spells they have at their disposal. And when it comes to runes, we could also bring into the picture thieves and pickpockets, eh?

Still on the topic of magic, the superior enchanted items of TES could give an edge; with expensive items, good soulgems and strong souls, you can give even the lowliest of warrirors magical weapons that match the strongest of spellcasters. Not a thing to be overlooked, certainly! (although they could be pickpocketed too, like runes)

IMO, if the worlds of Gothic and TES were pitted against each other on equal terms, eg. equal balance and equal fighting terms, plus ignoring silly storytelling-technical things such as immortal NPC's, the result would probably be a draw; Gothic has the stronger warriors, but their fighting techniques often seem rather brutish and slower than those of TES (at least if we translate game technics to fighting style which, I admit, is probably not the best way to go about things), the magic is IMO about equal in potency and strength in both camps despite being weighed towards different things, and if the gods are involved, the three gods of Gothic may be stronger than any three gods of TES, but TES has the strength of numbers, eg. there are the three gods and Dagoth Ur of Vvardenfell, the Nine, the lords of Oblivion, the gods of the other races, and so on, Gothic has ore weapons and (one set of) ore armour, but TES has strong enchanted weapons and armour, Gothic has potions that permanently boost stats whilst TES has the über-potions whose effects can be piled, and so on. As far as creatures go, I think both have about the equal strength of creatures; TES may lack the strongest creatures such as dragons, but the combination of intelligent fighting skill,strength and numbers of, say, Dremoras, would equal that. TES also has werewolves and vampires, which would certainly make a difference, although especially vampires are of course vulnerable to the multitude of fire-based spells of Gothic, but werewolves on the other hand would benefit from the absence or rarity of silver weapons.

[Th13f]

Not everyone in Nim could master those uber-stacked spells of yours. It takes quite a bit of Magicka to use one of those spells, so such spells would be restricted to high mages. High mages which would be easily countered by a squad of Gurus with Pyrokinesis, Fist of Wind and Sleep. Nim's numerically superior armies can be countered by a bunch of black mages with Army of Darkness and Summon Demon. To add more leverage to the Morgrad army, Bloodlust would further decrease the numbers of Nim's army and cause panic and chaos in the same time, while Fire Rain spell scrolls would cause even more mass destruction and Time Bubble spells would allow them to fully dictate the pace of the battle. Add a few squads of Fire and Water mages casting circle 6 spells or high ancient magic spells at them and you would get quite a scene. TES weapons, spells and enchantments are more suited for 1v1 combat, they are lethal against one target, while Gothic's magics are better at dealing with large numbers. The dremora can be countered by the big bad orcs, I'd say they're evenly matched, though a few orc shamans with Hailstorm would again change the battlefield. And if things get messy, the mercenaries can jump in and relieve the orcs, while the werewolves would be countered by the nordmarian heavy infantry and dragon hunter shocktroops, while paladins and militia would deal with the main force, assisted by hashishin shocktroops and archers. The druids would also serve as an elite force, while the rangers would serve as the bodyguards of the mages. Artillery assisted by nomad and orc mercenary auxiliaries would deal with the blades and dunmer house infantry, which I would dare say, are the elite force of Nim's army, while rebel war parties would raid Nim's supply lines, dealing with the issue of uber potions and soul gems. and on the battlefield, the rebels would assist as either light infantry or ranged troops.

Also, consider the psychological effect. Nim's spells are very effective against 1 target, while the area of effect, mass destruction spells from Gothic, combined with Bloodlust, would cause a lot of havoc and panic amongst the Nim army. You try doing anything in a Rain of Fire, a Hailstorm in the same time and Bloodlust having turned some of your comrades into mindless bloodthirsty beasts. On top of that, add meteors falling down on your head. You couldn't tell friend from foe and wouldn't understand a thing. In a blink of an eye, half of Nim's forces would be gonners. And to further resolve the issue of Nim's numbers, a few well placed magical barriers should be enough to create a choke point, where any shaken warriors that would make it out of the blazing inferno behind them, would be massacred. Mind you, they would be shaken once out of the chaos caused by Gothic's magic. And if it comes down to divine intervention, Nim's superior numbers and more numerous gods would be useless against Adanos, which would wash away the entire Nim army, complete with gods, in a single flood.

[Hellbilly]

Not everyone in Nim could master those uber-stacked spells of yours.

Potions, not spells. Potions. Everyone can quaff them, and one alchemist can brew tons of them quickly.

It takes quite a bit of Magicka to use one of those spells, so such spells would be restricted to high mages.

Same applies to the high runes of Gothic, advanced and heavy weapons, accuracy with archery, etc. You need lots and lots of mana to be able to cast the most advanced spells you speak of, and you need to know the highest circles of magic, so they would be limited to a small number of mages. However, if the troops of Gothic are allowed to have, and I quote, "a squad of Gurus", "a bunch of black mages", and "a few squads of Fire and Water mages casting circle 6 spells or high ancient magic spells", "a few orc shamans" and "the druids", then it is only reasonable assume that the advanced spell-casting force of the troops of TES would also be of a large-ish size, a size to equal those... lots of mages with maxed out magicka, maxed out spell skills, the most powerful of spell combos, potions, alchemists with the best equipment, ingredients and alchemy skill at 100, etc.

High mages which would be easily countered by a squad of Gurus with Pyrokinesis, Fist of Wind and Sleep.

...all countered by potions or pieces of armor/clothing with magic resistance qualities.

To add more leverage to the Morgrad army, Bloodlust would further decrease the numbers of Nim's army and cause panic and chaos in the same time, while Fire Rain spell scrolls would cause even more mass destruction and Time Bubble spells would allow them to fully dictate the pace of the battle.

...and again, all countered by anything with magic resistance.

The dremora can be countered by the big bad orcs

...who in turn would be made quite docile with Calm Humanoid and made to turn against their allies with Charm. In fact, all of the troops of Gothic could be made turn against their own allies with those spells. And considering you'd give the troops of Gothic such an abundance of spellpower, certainly the troops of TES have the same and could carry it out. And, considering there is only resistance to magic damage, not magic effects in Gothic (even dragons are subject to fear, for example), the troops of Gothic would be entirely at the mercy of such spell effects.

Also, consider the psychological effect. Nim's spells are very effective against 1 target, while the area of effect, mass destruction spells from Gothic, combined with Bloodlust, would cause a lot of havoc and panic amongst the Nim army.

The spells of TES are just as effective against many troops... if you give them an area effect, which you can do! So, no dice.

You try doing anything in a Rain of Fire, a Hailstorm in the same time and Bloodlust having turned some of your comrades into mindless bloodthirsty beasts. On top of that, add meteors falling down on your head. You couldn't tell friend from foe and wouldn't understand a thing.

I'm sure the troops of Gothic would be severely demoralized to see the troops of TES shrug it all off thanks to their magic resistance rings.

a few well placed magical barriers should be enough to create a choke point

Advance scouts with 100% chameleon and 100% invisibility would of course have snuck up behind the Gothic lines and cast Mark-spells there, so TES troops stuck in the barriers could just use a Recall-spell to be transported to safety. Gothic 3 proved that you can use magic means to escape the magic barriers.

Adanos, which would wash away the entire Nim army, complete with gods, in a single flood.

Why assume that the gods of Gothic are magically superior to the gods of TES? They would just undo whatever mojo Adanos has cast and make him look quite silly. You have no fair grounds to assume that the gods of TES could not match the power of the gods of Gothic.

[RobinHood 13.]

Well, let's just look at stats.
Armors and weapons in the gothic game often have values from 40-100.
In Oblivion they're usually less than 10, and atleast much lower than the typical in gothic.
It's like, the stronger ones being slightly stronger than farmer, and we know that with good armor, you could single handedly slaughter large masses of them. Kill them in one strike, they dmg 5hp.
It won't even be a challegen

[Hellbilly]

Really? I've had armor in Morrowind with defense stats of over 200. Weapons that do lots of base damage, enchanted to do even more damage. Also, I think it's a bit silly to assume you can compare dmg/defense/etc. points on a 1:1 basis between the two game series and their rulesets.

[DTR]

Lets not forget that in Daggerfall, there were diseases that rivaled real life ones. Shit that actually killed you anywhere from a few days to a few weeks.

The bishop-spankers made the diseases a joke from Morrowind on though...

So, I wonder whether the world of gothic could be eliminated much in a way the ancient native american civilizations were. With steel, plague and booze.

Meh. TES was a curious and interesting universe once. Now I would rather goto disneyland Paris in Google Street View than play whatever the crap they give us next.

[Omid-]

Really? I've had armor in Morrowind with defense stats of over 200. Weapons that do lots of base damage, enchanted to do even more damage. Also, I think it's a bit silly to assume you can compare dmg/defense/etc. points on a 1:1 basis between the two game series and their rulesets.

Shouldn't we be talking about the standard armor people are wearing? We're not giving Citizens ore weapons and Paladins armor so why change the armors of the TES peepz?


Anyway what the hell is magic resistance rings? No magic will work after wearing it?

[Hellbilly]

Shouldn't we be talking about the standard armor people are wearing? We're not giving Citizens ore weapons and Paladins armor so why change the armors of the TES peepz?

Some here seem to think even peasants should have double-handed ore weapons and a couple of Uriziels in store just in case...

Anyway what the hell is magic resistance rings? No magic will work after wearing it?

Yeah, sort of. Magicka resistance gives resistance to negative magical effects, including damage. Doesn't include the four elements, but hey, of course one of the expert mages would enchant rings with resistance to such damage as well. Another nice thing is spell absorption, which nullifies offensive spells and, if I remember correctly, gives the absorber extra mana. And the Reflect effect, which makes spells bounce back at their caster.

[Hav'caaren An'givare]

So let's say that the great battle is lost for gothic,the Imperials and the houses of Morrowind would plunder our lands and steal our women (like we have such things,stupid orcs ate them all ),they would not resist taking the Beliar Claw with them in the Imperial City.As we know from GII,the Claw is the Morgrad's verison of the One Ring.It corrupts people into craving for it, to figth for it,even kill for it ( it made the people of Jhakendar to covet for it and it affected thousands of people),so just imagine what devastation it would bring to the people of Cyrodiil .

[Hellbilly]

So, like I said, a draw. But from a different and much more fun viewpoint: mutually ensured destruction...