[Killrog]

Sorry lads, but I don't know where I can put this thread, so if it has to be moved, then let's move it !

Anyway, let's ask my question, or request : has anybody done a complete timeline for the world of gothic ?

I know that there's a timeline in the instructions book of G3, but this storyline is barely sufficiant to start the game, it is mostly empty. So, anybody got something for me ?

I bet Mikael Grizzly will have something...

[Ynmar]

Check the almanach... There ought to be something there...

[Killrog]

Nope man, and that's the reason why I'm asking...

[Mikael Grizzly]

It's not a timeline with dates, but it's rather a list of events put together. All are relative to present day (Before Present Day), the day of the Hero's arrival in Myrtana.

???? BPD: The Eternal Wanderer and his people live in Varant, estabilish an ancient culture under the influence of Innos. Scepter of Varant created.

???? BPD: The ancient culture of Varant emerges. Split occurs into the Nomad and Hashishin tribes.

???? BPD: Beliar's Claw procured by Quarhodron; Rhademes is corrupted by the blade;

???? BPD: Jharkendar along with ancient Varantian culture falls under the wrath of Adanos; Akasha escapes to Nordmar

???? BPD: Humanity as we know it emerges, descendant from ancients and Akascha; Saint Rhobar conquers Myrtana from Nordmar with the blessing of Innos

1000 years BPD: Five shamans summon Krushak into the mortal realm, enslave a number of humans for the construction of his temple.

990 years BPD: The Temple is finished

??? BPD: The First Orc War happens, the general wielding the Uriziel falls. Uriziel is entombed within the Temple.

??? BPD: The First Orc War ends in a tie between Orcs and humans.

??? BPD: The Valley of Mines is traded to an undisclosed third party by Bergmar, the Burgraf of the Western Lands on behalf of Lord Tymorisin.

??? BPD: Nordmar declares independence.

?? BPD: Rhobar I ascends to throne, adopting the saint's name as the royal dynasty name.

15 BPD: Rhobar II conquers Nordmar, estabilishes garrisons.

12 BPD: Lee thwarts Lukkor's invasion attempt; Varant conquered by Rhobar II forces

10 BPD: Harsh winter forces Orcs from the North to invade Nordmar and Myrtana; The Barrier is created

5 BPD: Orcs conquer Western Myrtana.

3 BPD: Orcs conquer northern Varant, Hashishin quickly reclaim their cities from the Nomads.

1 BPD: Orcs conquer nearly the whole Myrtana

1 BPD: Gothic events happen, Sleeper is banished

1 BPD: Lord Hagen sent to Khorinis, Gothic II's events unfold.

Present day: Hero arrives in Myrtana.


I admit, it's sketchy, but that's the best I can do half-awake late at night.

[Killrog]

Yeah it's sketchy, but at least this seems complete, so thanks for this Mikael. However, could I expect a more detailed version in a near future ?

[Mikael Grizzly]

The chronology is invalidated by Gothic 3's manual - Rhobar I did'nt occupy Nordmar nor Varant - Rhobar II did it and the Barrier stood for ten years.

[Killrog]

Yeah, but it's still a good piece of work. With a few corrections it should be perfect. Thank you Mikael, and thank you Calin.

[Gor_Na_Drak]

The chronology is invalidated by Gothic 3's manual - Rhobar I did'nt occupy Nordmar nor Varant - Rhobar II did it and the Barrier stood for ten years.

Sowilo made that timeline before G3 came out. And did a pretty fine job at it considering how little information was given at the time. Most based on what one learns in game with a little educated guess work to fill in the gaps.

[Mikael Grizzly]

Gee, I guess I didn't do anything at all.

Sowilo made it before G3 and G3 invalidated it. A new one needs to be made.

However, I believe that Sowilo went a little too far taking the 212 year as "since humanity got magic".

[strange little guy]

I believe that Sowilo went a little too far taking the 212 year as "since humanity got magic".

ex. 000
- Year as Innos gave the gift of magic to the humans

ex. 212
- War between 3 shires of Khorinis - Earl of Westfeld wins

I believe you should've taken a closer look

[Mikael Grizzly]

I meant 0 year.

Stupid thought shortcuts.

+1

[Sowilo]

hi folks,l

a few points with my view:

- Time: year 0 of what?

Concerning the event which the Gothic-time is based one there was a huge discussion in the German board. That the year "0" was the moment, where the humans recieved the gift of magic wasn't my opinion. Other users convinced me.

There is a book in Gothic I. German title: "Die Lehren der Götter" (sth like "The teachings of gods"). It discribes step by step the creation of the world. There are:

- Creation of men
- He gave them the gift of magic
- Mankind had been splitted in watermages and firemages

And there is the document written by Lord Hagen for Pyrokar concerning the Eye of Innos. There is written, that in the year 2 was a seperation of the church of Innos.

A few thought that this splitting is the one of the "teachings of gods". The event before this one was the gift of magic. So they said that the year were mankind recieved magic must be the year 0.

But now the most (German) users think that the seperation of the curch of Innos in the letter isn't the one of the book. The majority think that the book discribes the seperation from magicans into adanos- and innos believers and the letter the seperation from the church of Innos into paladins and magicians.

But there is still an important hint in the letter. There is written "in the 2nd year of fire". So the "actual" theory is that the year 0 of fire was the year where mankind recieved the gift of magic/became the power of fire/innos. Not because of the seperation(s). Just because of the "year of fire" (fire = Innos).

- Problems of Gothic³-timeline

1. Rhobar II defeats varant instead of his father
(opposite is written in the German Gothic I manual)

Problem: Gothic intro: "Rhobar II, who united the 4 realms."

Possibility 1: Rhobar II occupied all 3 other kingdoms.
Possibility 2: Rhobar II occupied the southern Islands and Nordmar, but not Varant, which had been defeated by his father Rhobar I.

2. The barrier had a lifetime of 10 instead of 22 years
(like it is written in the Gothic-Comic, Lester is telling it (I guess) and written in the Gothic³ strategy-book)

Ralf, a member of PB, said that even they don't know the correct date. 10 years would be more realistic because of 22 years ago the old magicans must be very young. But there are more sources with 22 years available.

[Mikael Grizzly]

However, we should introduce a ranking system for all source material.

The absolute base are the games, followed by manuals and source documents with any third party (strategy guides, comic) being the last.

Also, I believe that instead of trying to introduce a dated storyline, we should put all the vents into proper order first - there are just too little dates.

[Sowilo]

I can tell you the ranking of PB:

- Gothic (1) manual - written by the publisher - afaik most unreliable

- Gothic 1 books (ingame) - they had been written before the story had been finished - so they are a bad source, but not everything is wrong.

- ingame: reliable
(but Gothic I less than Gothic II and Gothic II less than NotR and NotR less than Gothic³).

[Mikael Grizzly]

Nope, Rhobar II conquered Varant. The reason there is no number accompanying him is because the book we get in game is an excerpt from the middle chapters of what the book would really look like.

The reason I'm contesting the timeline with dates is the fact that there are just not enough dates to go with, and we do not know how they count their time - it doesn't have to be the date the gift of magic was given to humanity, it may very well be the date St Rhobar descended from Nordmar or the date of the first unification of the kingdom, following the First Orc War by a previous batch of kings (indeed the G3 manual states that Myrtana was a kingdom long before Rhobar unifying the lands).

[Sowilo]

But then, when did the followers of Beliar apprear?

Official Never .

Because it would sound illogical that some magicians became paladins.

Before there was only the "church of Innos". I think that even fighters could be part of it.

The Kingdom of Myrthana, united by King Rhobar the Second., not King Rhobar the Second, uniter of the 4 realms.

In the German one:

"Im Namen König Rhobars II, Träger des Szepters von Varrant, Vereiniger der vier Reiche am Myrth... (gecancelt) ...anischen Meer, verurteile ich diesen Gefangenen... "

"In the name of king Rhobar II, owner of the szepter of Varant, the one who united the four kingdoms of the myrth (canceld) anian sea, I judge this prisoner..."

It was indeed said that Rhobar I defetead Varant. But if you remember, it was general Lee who dealed with the last resistence of Varant (led by Lukkor) before he was thrown in the Penal Colony.

Yes I know.

edit:

Events

Beginning

- Creation of mankind
- Men get the gift of magic - They drink the tears of Innos.
- First Seperation - Believers split into Church of Innos and Church of Adanos.

Jharkendar

- Jharkendar rising
- Jharkendar get Claw of Beliar - During a war.
- Jharkendar died - Flood and civil war.

Sleeper

- Construction of the temple - by human slaves (maybe Jharkendar)
- Summon of the Sleeper - by 5 Orc priests
- Uriziel - Orcs hide it in the temple.
- Orcs barricades the temple

Ancient age

- Second Seperation - Church of Innos split into Circle of Fire and Paladins.
- First Khorinis war - 3 Shires became united

Medieval age

- Second Khorinis war - Myrtana occupies Khorinis (fictional)

Late medieval age

(Rising of Myrtana)

- Nordmar war - Rhobar I occupies Nordmar.
- Crusader - The paladins destroy the northern and eastern Beliars tempels. (Possible here)
- Varant war - Varant attacks Myrtana
- Last battle - Last army of Varant is beaten by Lee
- Heritage - Rhobar II became king
- First Orc war - Orcs are attacking the northern border - but lost.
- Creation of the barrier - official to bind the prisoners - inofficial to protect the valley
- Southern islands war - Dominique attacks the southern islands. (Possible here)

(Falling of Myrtana)

- Second Orc war - Orcs are attacking the eastern Archipel and Nordmar. Later Myrtana.
- Uriziel - had been found by the hero.
- Destruction of the barrier - the hero banned the sleeper.
- Third Khorinis war - Invasion of dragons and orcs.
- Paladins quest - They should take ore from Khorinis.
- Raven find the Claw of Beliar - and had been killed by the hero.
- Reborn of the sleeper - undead dragon summoned at Irdorath.
- Death of Undead Dreagon - Hero killed him and Xardas got his power.

[Mikael Grizzly]

Can I ask for a direct quote from the game concerning the battle of Varant? In the book there is NO mention of the king being Rhobar I. There is only Rhobar written there.

The book may refer to either Rhobar I or Rhobar II. Rhobar II is more likely to be the king.

[Sowilo]

In the book "battle of Varant" is written "Rhobar". But in the German manual is written, that he died after the war and his son became king. But I guess the final battle lead by Lee was after the death of Rhobar I.

[Mikael Grizzly]

However, you said that the GI manual was unreliable. Plus, the G3 manual states that it was Rhobar II that conquered Varant AND Nordmar.

So it may be that as Rhobar I was nearing death, his son took over most of his duties and became de facto king, and the historian wrote the Battle for Varrant during Rhobar II's reign.

I'll also soon finish writing the article about Myrtana for the Almanach - stay tuned.

[Sowilo]

If Lee was a general when he defeated Lukkor it's clear that we are talking about Rhobar II.

But before Rhobar I occupied the capital of Varant and died.

That's strange. Why did they change that?

Bergmars document is different too. In the German one there is not written that there was a war - in the English is.

But again, maybe the 4 realms of the Myrthanian Sea were Myrthana, Varant, Nordmar and Khorinis

Good idea. But on the Games Concention was said that the 4 kingdoms are Myrtana, Nordmar, Varant and the Southern Islands.