[kronovan]

Guten tag everyone,

I noticed this forum topic pinned in the English language Help forum:

WoG.com is closing - English threads are welcome in the German section

I'm wondering if that's true for the Gothic Diskussion forum too?

I've been working on adapting the Gothic setting to Das Schwarze Auge table top RPG. I've noticed there hasn't been activity in the English forums for almost 10 years. That's a problem for me, as I have questions related to the lore. I'm looking for a place where I can ask questions, or even speculate about the gothic setting in an informed manner. I've found the English online fandom and wiki sites are lacking and the Steam Gothic forums haven't been much help either.

I'm hoping this forum might be a source for answers to questions, or a place for me to create some discussions about the Gothic setting. I'm a big fan of the DSA RPG and have tried many times to bring it to table in my Canadian city. I now have the ability to run DSA campaigns online with a Virtual Table Top application, so I'm excited about hosting an online campaign set in the world of Gothic. I'm as much or more of a fan of Gothic video games' setting of Myrtania and islands as I am of DSA's continent of Aventuria. That both were created in Deutschland makes the effort to adapt Gothic to DSA more meaningful to me.

For those familiar with DSA, I personally feel it's a good fit for the Gothic game setting. I see some similarities between the 2 and at times have even wondered if it was an inspiration for Piranha Bytes. To me, Gothic Fire Mages are like DSA Light Mages, Water Mages are like Gray Mages, Dark Mages like Black Mages and Paladins a bit like the Blessed Ones of Rondra. I also see some similarities in cultures, with Myrtanians being like DSA Middenrealmers, Nordmars like Fjarnings and Nivesens, island-born Khorinisans like Thorwalers and the Hashishin of Varant like some of the Tulamydes. That's not to say that Gothic isn't its own Fantasy setting, it is, just that I see enough similarities that I'm willing to attempt to adapt it. Of course there aren't any Dwarves or Elves in Gothic's setting and that's one of the big differences between the 2.

My apologies for not being able to write in Deutsch. My father is fluent in speaking and writing it, but I never managed to learn it.

[Don-Esteban]

No problem. You can talk in English here.

The similarities you see between Dark Eye and Gothic are, in my opinion, only due to the use of typical fantasy props found in many systems. Of course, some of the piranhas back then were also table top players. In addition to D&D, they have certainly also played DSA and consciously or unconsciously got ideas from there.

[kronovan]

No problem. You can talk in English here.

Thanks for replying in Englisch

The similarities you see between Dark Eye and Gothic are, in my opinion, only due to the use of typical fantasy props found in many systems.

Well that's certainly part of it, but IMO Gothic characters are more similar to DSA than D&D. For example the mundane professions in Gothic (alchemist, bowyer, smith) are much more similar to the DSA mundane professions than to D&D classes. Like Gothic, some DSA professions only form an initial foundation which only takes a Player Characters so far, whereas D&D classes are all encompassing and steer a PC cradle -to- grave. As well, Gothic cultures seem more akin to DSA than the 5 original D&D races and all that have been added since. The DSA cultures I mentioned above, plus others I didn't, can be tweaked with reasonable ease to align with those in Gothic's setting.

I can see arguments being made that Gothics is somewhat like The Basic RolePlay (thinking mostly Runequest/Mythras) TTRPG or GURPS TTRPG, but both of those systems have features that are as much different as they are similar. When I 1st started adapting I used the Savage Worlds TTRPG, which proved to be a good fit - mostly because it's an open/universal system that's skill-based. While I got far enough with that to run a Gothic campaign, once I started re-reading my DSA core rulebook I couldn't help but feel it'd be a better choice. Just my opinion, but there seems to be an approach to Heroic Fantasy that Gothic and DSA are embracing in a similar manner, which is quite different than the High Fantasy of D&D.

[Don-Esteban]

The little I can add is this. From an interview we did at the Games Convention in 2006 with Kai Rosenkranz, the composer of Piranha Bytes.

World of Gothic: Im Forum sind Fragen nach eurer Inspiration für bestimmte Namen in der Gothicwelt aufgetaucht: z.B. ob Jharkendar vielleicht von Jarkend (Stadt in China) oder Rhademes von Rhadames (Feldherr aus der Oper Aida) kommt. Könnt ihr uns über die Inspirationsquelle zu diesen oder vielleicht auch anderen Namen etwas Genaueres sagen?

KaiRo: Ehrlich gesagt kann ich dazu nicht viel sagen, denn die Namen kommen von den Storyschreibern im Team. Ich habe in dem Zusammenhang auch selber mal interessehalber nachgefragt. Es gibt eine ganze Menge Inspirationsquellen für unsere Storyautoren Mattias Filler, Michael Hoge, Stefan Kalveram und Björn Pankratz. Die sind auch in anderen Rollenspielsystemen wie DSA oder vergleichbaren Systemen zu Hause und dort bekommt man einfach das Feeling für einen mittelalterlichen oder fantasygerechten Namensgebungsstil. Aus unseren Storyleuten sprudeln Namen heraus, die einfach stimmig klingen, ohne daß sie großartig in historischen Dokumenten oder in Karten nachschauen müssen. Ich weiß nicht, ob diese Städte oder der Feldherr tatsächlich die Grundlagen waren. Ich würde es ihnen zutrauen, daß sie auf die in der Frage genannten Namen von ganz alleine gekommen sind.

In English.

World of Gothic: Questions have arisen in the forum about your inspiration for certain names in the Gothic world: e.g. whether Jharkendar might come from Jarkend (city in China) or Rhademes from Rhadames (commander from the opera Aida). Can you tell us more about the source of inspiration for these or maybe other names?

KaiRo: Honestly, I can't say much about them as the names come from the story writers on the team. I asked about this myself out of interest. There are a lot of sources of inspiration for our story authors Mattias Filler, Michael Hoge, Stefan Kalveram and Björn Pankratz. They are also at home in other role-playing systems such as DSA or comparable systems, and there you simply get the feeling for a medieval or fantasy-oriented naming style. Our story people spit out names that just sound right without having to look through historical documents or maps. I don't know if those cities or the General were actually the foundations. I wouldn't put it past them to have come up with the names mentioned in the question all by themselves.

Source:
https://www.worldofgothic.de/gothic3...go=interview13

[Ajanna]

I know nothing of the true source of the Piranha creative team, but to me Jharkendar always was such a Jaipur Hawa Mahal sort of word.

[HerrFenrisWolf]

I've been working on adapting the Gothic setting to Das Schwarze Auge table top RPG. I've noticed there hasn't been activity in the English forums for almost 10 years. That's a problem for me, as I have questions related to the lore. I'm looking for a place where I can ask questions, or even speculate about the gothic setting in an informed manner. I've found the English online fandom and wiki sites are lacking and the Steam Gothic forums haven't been much help either.

I'm hoping this forum might be a source for answers to questions, or a place for me to create some discussions about the Gothic setting. I'm a big fan of the DSA RPG and have tried many times to bring it to table in my Canadian city. I now have the ability to run DSA campaigns online with a Virtual Table Top application, so I'm excited about hosting an online campaign set in the world of Gothic. I'm as much or more of a fan of Gothic video games' setting of Myrtania and islands as I am of DSA's continent of Aventuria. That both were created in Deutschland makes the effort to adapt Gothic to DSA more meaningful to me.

Nice, how did you find your way to The Dark Eye? Do you use the fith edition, that Ulisses localized to English?

[kronovan]

Nice, how did you find your way to The Dark Eye? Do you use the fith edition, that Ulisses localized to English?

It's quite a long story for me, but my 1st exposure was a short campaign in the 1990s using the DSA 2 rules. It was GM'd by a Deutsch exchange student who along with some of her colleagues brought their rule books. Two of them were being hosted by a next door neighbor and both had started playing at the same university table. I'd played AD&D 1e previously in a club at my college, so watching folks sitting around a table playing what seemed like a Euro equivalent, I was intrigued to say the least. I jumped at the opportunity when they invited me to play.

The next was playing the video games, which I played at a time when I was on a leave from tabletop RPGs due to having a young family to raise. About 5 years ago a hardcover of the TDE 5e core rulebook arrived at a local gaming store - I'm in Canada, so yes it was the localized English version. I didn't buy it (regret it because TDE is long out of print in NA), but browsed it extensively and was completely blown away by the content and artwork. It brought back memories of the DSA 2 and video games I'd played years ago. Shortly after I played one of the newer video games and one of the remakes. They both did a good enough job of capturing the themes of Aventuria, that I was charmed just as I'd been with Piranha Bytes' Khorinis and Myrtana. I wanted to know about the continent setting of Aventuria, so I bought the TDE 5e Aventuria Almanac.

Without a doubt the Aventuria Almanac is one of the, if not the best TTRPG almanacs/gazetteers I've ever owned and I got hooked on the idea of running a campaign. Shortly after I also bought the TDE 5e PDFs for the core rulebook, compendium, magic, armory, bestiary and the inns & taverns companion. I've since run short adventures a number of times at a local gaming convention, but never managed to get a group of players to commit to a campaign. Around the beginning of the Covid pandemic, the Ulisses Spiele website started offering 2 of their TDE adventure PDFs as free downloads. That same webpage mentioned a fan-made adaptation of TDE for the Fantasy Grounds Virtual Table Top, which is something I own. So that rekindled my enthusiasm for running a campaign, but an online one instead.

[HerrFenrisWolf]

It's quite a long story for me, but my 1st exposure was a short campaign in the 1990s using the DSA 2 rules. It was GM'd by a Deutsch exchange student who along with some of her colleagues brought their rule books. Two of them were being hosted by a next door neighbor and both had started playing at the same university table. I'd played AD&D 1e previously in a club at my college, so watching folks sitting around a table playing what seemed like a Euro equivalent, I was intrigued to say the least. I jumped at the opportunity when they invited me to play.

The next was playing the video games, which I played at a time when I was on a leave from tabletop RPGs due to having a young family to raise. About 5 years ago a hardcover of the TDE 5e core rulebook arrived at a local gaming store. I didn't buy it (regret it because TDE is long out of print in NA), but browsed it extensively and was completely blown away by the content and artwork. It brought back memories of the DSA 2 and video games I'd played years ago. Shortly after I played one of the newer video games and one of the remakes. They both did a good enough job of capturing the themes of Aventuria, that I was charmed just as I'd been with Piranha Bytes' Khorinis and Myrtana. I wanted to know about the continent setting of Aventuria, so I bought the TDE 5e Aventuria Almanac.

Without a doubt the Aventuria Almanac is one of the, if not the best TTRPG almanacs/gazetteers I've ever owned and I got hooked on the idea of running a campaign. I've since run short adventures a number of times at a local gaming convention, but never managed to get a group of players to commit to a campaign. Around the beginning of the Covid pandemic, the Ulisses Spiele website started offering 2 of their TDE adventure PDFs as free downloads. That same webpage mentioned a fan-made adaptation of TDE for the Fantasy Grounds Virtual Table Top, which is something I own. So that rekindled my enthusiasm for running a campaign, but an online one instead.

Fith Edition is out of print in NA? What?!... Not according to this site. I played the old Realms of Arkania games too, the Thorwal ones. I love playing TTRPG and usually gming, but never had a chance to play DSA. Find the "roll three times" thing a bit odd, tbh. But there is a gread documentary about how DSA came to be on youtube. "Hinter der Maske des Meisters"... maybe you could watch it with generated subtitles or well... or just for the feeling. Made me want to play it.

[kronovan]

...But there is a gread documentary about how DSA came to be on youtube. "Hinter der Maske des Meisters"...

I watched Part 1 of the video and it was terrific. I enjoyed the idea of a GM who's hosting players that are roleplaying the original authors and creators - wish they'd done more with that. Sadly I can only find an Englisch translation for Part 1 and my Deutsch is just too poor to be able to stumble through the close captioning quickly enough. I did however find a Part 2 youtube with Französisch subtitles. I'm far from being fluent in Französisch (father, daughter, sister and brother in-law are), but we Canadians all study it a bit in school and my reading of it is much better than my speaking. I'm hoping I can find the other parts with at least Französisch subtitles.

Many hanks for the replies and the link.

Fith Edition is out of print in NA? What?!... Not according to this site.

Yes, like at that webstore you can still buy copies of the smaller, softcover TDE 5e core rulebook, but sadly no longer the hardcover. I really want the hardcover as IMO it's a thing of beauty. Apparently the softcover is vert nice too and TBH I was skeptical of such reports until I browsed through the newer and very attractive softcover edition of the Pathfinder 1e core rulebook. That made me realize that it's possible to do a more condensed but quality softcover version of what was originally a hardcover book.

...but never had a chance to play DSA. Find the "roll three times" thing a bit odd, tbh...

Well TBH it does seem odd at 1st, but it's one of those things where once you're rolling dice on the tabletop it all start to make sense. In terms of the 3, d20 play mechanic though, since all skills rolls are based on 3 attributes, TDE is IMO the best TTRPG at tying skills to a characters core attributes. It makes how you build your Player Character much more meaningful and rewarding than a lot of TTRPGs.

The little I can add is this. From an interview we did at the Games Convention in 2006 with Kai Rosenkranz, the composer of Piranha Bytes...

Thanks for the quote and link - not a surprise and with the incredible success of the original DSA release I think that commentator is right in naming DSA. As well, with an artifact named "The Eye of Innos" being the central plot device that the Gothic 2 story evolves around, the possibility of DSA as a source of inspiration just seem that more likely.