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    Local Hero Darksword's Avatar
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    melee weapon skills in Gothic 1: unfair?

    It seems to me a bit unfair that in order to master two-handed weapons you have to spend 100 skill points, but to master one-handed is just 30 skill points. I agree that there should be a price to pay for the extra damage a two-hander can do, but to make two-handed training cost 70 points ... wow! that's heavy. OK, by joining New Camp things are a little better, but one's choice of camp really shouldn't be forced by your weapon preference. Or what do people think?
    "All that matters is Strength." (Mercenary who hangs out in Onar's house)

    Healing potions: the case for addiction (Book title in Divine Divinity)

    "I've seen better times. Too little to live on, too much to die." (Farim, Gothic II Night of the Raven)

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    Forenkater Matteo's Avatar
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    I think it's okay. You get in Gothic I more than enough LP to master several weapon skills.
    At the end of the game I usually end up with: 1-hand, 2-hand and bow mastered and the 4. circle of mage learned. Can't complain about that.

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    Deus Gothaholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matteo View Post
    I think it's okay. You get in Gothic I more than enough LP to master several weapon skills.
    At the end of the game I usually end up with: 1-hand, 2-hand and bow mastered and the 4. circle of mage learned. Can't complain about that.
    if you don't learn the mage circles (which is absolutely not neccessary for a 1- or 2-hand fighter) you even have much more LP than you can spend. usually I have 50 or 60 LP left unused and have alle weapons + Strength mastered (Dex is not necessary because the best Dex-weapon only needs 55 to wear it).

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    Local Hero Darksword's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matteo View Post
    I think it's okay. You get in Gothic I more than enough LP to master several weapon skills.
    At the end of the game I usually end up with: 1-hand, 2-hand and bow mastered and the 4. circle of mage learned. Can't complain about that.
    OK, that sounds fine ... I guess it's just the way I went about it, I trained STR to 95, took Lockpick for 10 skill points and SNEAK for another 10, and put, I think, 6 skill points into hunting skills from Drax, and 4 int6 DEX. Now I'm level 15 but it takes a lot of xp to level, and I'm impatient to get on with weapons training but it's taking ages to accumulate 30 skill points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothaholic View Post
    if you don't learn the mage circles (which is absolutely not neccessary for a 1- or 2-hand fighter) you even have much more LP than you can spend. usually I have 50 or 60 LP left unused and have alle weapons + Strength mastered (Dex is not necessary because the best Dex-weapon only needs 55 to wear it).
    Good to know, and makes it easier to keep going, even if getting 70 skill points more seems a very distant goal ... I think SNEAK was a bit of a waste, but maybe not, I was able to get some STR potions from chests in the Castle smithy and barracks.

    Thanks to both of you.
    "All that matters is Strength." (Mercenary who hangs out in Onar's house)

    Healing potions: the case for addiction (Book title in Divine Divinity)

    "I've seen better times. Too little to live on, too much to die." (Farim, Gothic II Night of the Raven)
    Last edited by Darksword; 25.04.2019 at 20:49.

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    General Arkain's Avatar
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    LP costs in G1 are a bit all over the place, really. Some things are just overpriced, like thief skills costing the same as weapon skills, others are probably meant as a progression, i.e. you start with one handed weapons and later in the game you switch to two handed weapons which are supposedly better (they really aren't), so you ought to pay more for it, much like higher levels of magic. I personally think that a total cost of 50 would've been enough. Of course, the game probably doesn't assume in its design that you go straight to 100 strength and 1H 1/2 either, to win the game by level 10, so there's that.
    What has always bothered me more are crossbows, though. They are flatout better in every respect, including crit chances, so that learning the bow skill always seemed a bit like a huge GOTCHA! the moment you can get crossbows (without violence, anyway). In that regard, I much appreciate G2's choice of learning to use whatever weapon you want from the get go.
    Last edited by Arkain; 27.04.2019 at 01:02. Reason: Typo

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    Deus Gothaholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkain View Post
    LP costs in G1 are a bit over the place, really. Some things are just overpriced, like thief skills costing the same as weapon skills, others are probably meant as a progression, i.e. you start with one handed weapons and later in the game you switch to two handed weapons which are supposedly better (they really aren't), so you ought to pay more for it, much like higher levels of magic. I personally think that a total cost of 50 would've been enough.
    on the other hand: when you consider that you get roundabout 350 LP in Gothic, I think it's extremly cheap to have the 1-hand sword mastered with only 30 LP. to master 1- and 2-hand swords together costs 100 LP, that's fair for me. and when you take into consideration that you can learn strength only up to the value of 100, this means you are (as a fighter) maxed out with 200 LP, I see no need to make this even cheaper. the only thing they could have done is to split the costs for the sword skills at 50:50 (1-hand and 2-hand).

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    Local Hero Darksword's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkain View Post
    LP costs in G1 are a bit all over the place, really. Some things are just overpriced, like thief skills costing the same as weapon skills, others are probably meant as a progression, i.e. you start with one handed weapons and later in the game you switch to two handed weapons which are supposedly better (they really aren't), so you ought to pay more for it, much like higher levels of magic. I personally think that a total cost of 50 would've been enough. Of course, the game probably doesn't assume in its design that you go straight to 100 strength and 1H 1/2 either, to win the game by level 10, so there's that.
    What has always bothered me more are crossbows, though. They are flatout better in every respect, including crit chances, so that learning the bow skill always seemed a bit like a huge GOTCHA! the moment you can get crossbows (without violence, anyway). In that regard, I much appreciate G2's choice of learning to use whatever weapon you want from the get go.
    I agree about the points being all over the place. I didn't notice it the first two times I played G1, somehow ... G2 is much better, not only is a player free to make weapon choices from the start, adding to attributes like STR, DEX etc gets more expensive the higher you go, which adds a lot of interest to the game. Also, having to make a choice whether to learn smithing or skin-taking was a good idea: it makes buying potions etc more of a decision. In G1, I always just started by
    Spoiler:(zum lesen bitte Text markieren)
    picking the lock of Huno's chest and making crude swords the first night, and then buying 15 or so raw steel every night and making more crude swords
    and having a lot of ore is really, really easy. I usually don't bother with hunting skills but this time I did and am in a happy but not that fascinating situation of being able to buy everything my heart desires.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothaholic View Post
    on the other hand: when you consider that you get roundabout 350 LP in Gothic, I think it's extremly cheap to have the 1-hand sword mastered with only 30 LP. to master 1- and 2-hand swords together costs 100 LP, that's fair for me. and when you take into consideration that you can learn strength only up to the value of 100, this means you are (as a fighter) maxed out with 200 LP, I see no need to make this even cheaper.
    I have to agree. Over the game as a whole you are right. And I guess it does add interest, deciding how far to advance STR before you start on fighting skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothaholic View Post
    the only thing they could have done is to split the costs for the sword skills at 50:50 (1-hand and 2-hand).
    This would be good, would make the player have to work equally hard for 1-hand mastery. Although requiring 1-hand mastery before you can get 2-h training still would mean that the player is having to get a lot more exp points to master 2-h, just because of the greater amount of exp needed to gain levels as the game advances.

    Anyway, it's a great game!
    "All that matters is Strength." (Mercenary who hangs out in Onar's house)

    Healing potions: the case for addiction (Book title in Divine Divinity)

    "I've seen better times. Too little to live on, too much to die." (Farim, Gothic II Night of the Raven)
    Last edited by smiloDon; 07.05.2019 at 20:17.

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