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  1. #1 Zitieren
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    The combat in this game is utter garbage, it really is.

    Controls are unresponsive as fk, hit detection is totally borked, animations take an age to play out whilst button taps are queued, which results in Jac being locked into several moves with no means of cancelling.

    Considering how difficult the enemies are in this game, and considering that there are no real 'easy' areas or paths like in the Gothic or Risen games, the combat is making this game a real drag to play.

    Can't level up cos I can't do hardly any of the Goliet missions, cos I keep getting wiped out as soon as a Hornwolf or two appears.

    The only time I remember combat being really good in any PB game was Gothic 3, after the 1.75 Community Patch, implemented the alternative system.

    In Risen, it was ok (so long as you chose shields and swords.

    Is really putting me of playing this game.
    MatDerKater ist offline

  2. #2 Zitieren
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    i think combat is ok. its not as good as risen 1 but now that they fixed the low stamina problem with enemies it is definitely better than R2/3 and Gothic 3.
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  3. #3 Zitieren
    Ranger Avatar von Grimmwulf
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    I'm 76 hours in and am enjoying combat. Definitely took some getting used to though.

    My best advice for starting out:

    • Get a proper understanding of the combat system. There's two videos here that will help.
    • Unlock the Stamina skill as soon as possible. There's a trainer in Goliet.
    • Gain a follower as soon as possible. I think you can complete Duras' quest without combat if you cleverly evade monsters.
    • Obtain better armor as soon as possible. You can purchase Hunter armor in Goliet. It can also be found in a chest by a hunter south of Goliet.

    In the beginning, your follower will be far more powerful than you are. I think the best strategy then is to equip a shield and use it to knock down enemies while the follower deals most of the damage. Eventually you should learn to fight without using a shield, since you'll be able to deal much more damage that way.

    In terms of completing quests, keep in mind that you don't always need to defeat the enemies. Oftentimes you can sneak in, grab the quest item(s), and flee. This is definitely the best approach for the "gather mature mana roots" quest you obtain in Goliet.
    Das war's mit dir, du Mistvieh!
    Verdammte Enten!
    Grimmwulf ist offline Geändert von Grimmwulf (29.10.2017 um 02:00 Uhr)

  4. #4 Zitieren
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    Zitat Zitat von Grimmwulf Beitrag anzeigen
    I'm 76 hours in and am enjoying combat. Definitely took some getting used to though.

    My best advice for starting out:

    • Get a proper understanding of the combat system. There's two videos here that will help.
    • Unlock the Stamina skill as soon as possible. There's a trainer in Goliet.
    • Gain a follower as soon as possible. I think you can complete Duras' quest without combat if you cleverly evade monsters.
    • Obtain better armor as soon as possible. You can purchase Hunter armor in Goliet. It can also be found in a chest by a hunter south of Goliet.

    In the beginning, your follower will be far more powerful than you are. I think the best strategy then is to equip a shield and use it to knock down enemies while the follower deals most of the damage. Eventually you should learn to fight without using a shield, since you'll be able to deal much more damage that way.

    In terms of completing quests, keep in mind that you don't always need to defeat the enemies. Oftentimes you can sneak in, grab the quest item(s), and flee. This is definitely the best approach for the "gather mature mana roots" quest you obtain in Goliet.
    Thanks for the video links and other tips....

    ....I have played every single PB game to completion at least once, with the exception of Risen 3 (due to unbearable sea monster battles) so it is not as though I am a stranger to PB's combat systems and can therefore testify, that Elex is the very first time, where there has been such a thing as a command queue, where the engine will execute commands inputed seconds previously, in response to situations on screen, that no longer apply. This sort of thing underpins the very essence of frustrating and unenjoyable gameplay in any game.

    I am also playing with a gamepad as opposed to keyboard and mouse, because there really shouldn't be any need for the accuracy of Kb&m in such a game, and sitting back with gamepad for hours is just so much more comfortable.....but perhaps, my choice of gaming input peripheral is also making things much more clunky and gruelling than they need be.

    Edit: Stuck at the Alb scouts who are standing around Rogar's corprse, and have resorted to luring the 'Unhold' monster from across the river to meet the Albs and invariably stove their heids in.....However, in doing so, I have got to avoid the Unhold's boulders.....just watched one miss me by the equivalent of 4-5 yards, yet I still died instantly. This is hit box hell. It is 100% immersion breaking and there can be no defending it.

    None of the Gothic or Risen games were ever as bad as this in this way. Elex combat is the definition of janky crap.
    MatDerKater ist offline Geändert von MatDerKater (29.10.2017 um 15:50 Uhr)

  5. #5 Zitieren
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    Zitat Zitat von Grimmwulf Beitrag anzeigen
    • Gain a follower as soon as possible. I think you can complete Duras' quest without combat if you cleverly evade monsters.

    It's easier to just rush for Falk at the top of the converter in the vicinity of Goliet.
    Vigarde ist offline

  6. #6 Zitieren
    Knight Avatar von The Old Hunter
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    i played every gothic and every risen and i must say: the combat is great. i dont see whats so bad about it. if you cant get used to the mechanic then its your fault and not the games fault. played it with both keyboard and controller and i must say both is perfectly fine. but i like controller more so i go with that. oh, and im playing on ultra and still have no big problems.
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  7. #7 Zitieren
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    Zitat Zitat von The Old Hunter Beitrag anzeigen
    i played every gothic and every risen and i must say: the combat is great. i dont see whats so bad about it. if you cant get used to the mechanic then its your fault and not the games fault. played it with both keyboard and controller and i must say both is perfectly fine. but i like controller more so i go with that. oh, and im playing on ultra and still have no big problems.
    If someone put a turd in a sandwich, there will always be someone else who says they like it.
    MatDerKater ist offline

  8. #8 Zitieren
    Ranger Avatar von Grimmwulf
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    In case anyone is interested, here's some skillful combat tutorials.
    https://www.youtube.com/user/click4gameplay/videos
    Das war's mit dir, du Mistvieh!
    Verdammte Enten!
    Grimmwulf ist offline

  9. #9 Zitieren
    Veteran Avatar von vic1968
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    if you cant get used to the mechanic then its your fault and not the games fault
    Yeah, sure.I've heard so much that...Always is MY fault.

    First, a game is about FUN.For now, I have not fun with Elex combat.I'm still trying, after all is a PB game, I love PB and played countless times all their games so I still give credit but...
    Just look: I'm at 2nd build ( first was so fucked up that I tried another ) DEX/INT/CUN and at 12 level I'm still running and jumping like hell.In fact, I cannot beat somebody when I'm single and the blasted Clerics sent me to pilgrimage...Just curious how much I'll last.
    Second, the companions are full idiots when it comes to combat.But perhaps is my fault too,who knows...

    Now, I've played Dark Souls.I do not like it too much, I enjoy a story and NPCs who speak and give quests.But the combat was hard, wasn't it?And based on stamina too, am I right?However I've mastered this combat relatively quick.I cannot say that about Elex combat, unfortunately.Above all, controls are delayed, sometimes ( but not always ) I must push the buttons twice and so on.NO FUN.
    Still hoping for a patch...
    vic1968 ist offline

  10. #10 Zitieren
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    Yeah, sure.I've heard so much that...Always is MY fault.

    First, a game is about FUN.For now, I have not fun with Elex combat.I'm still trying, after all is a PB game, I love PB and played countless times all their games so I still give credit but...
    Just look: I'm at 2nd build ( first was so fucked up that I tried another ) DEX/INT/CUN and at 12 level I'm still running and jumping like hell.In fact, I cannot beat somebody when I'm single and the blasted Clerics sent me to pilgrimage...Just curious how much I'll last.
    Second, the companions are full idiots when it comes to combat.But perhaps is my fault too,who knows...

    Now, I've played Dark Souls.I do not like it too much, I enjoy a story and NPCs who speak and give quests.But the combat was hard, wasn't it?And based on stamina too, am I right?However I've mastered this combat relatively quick.I cannot say that about Elex combat, unfortunately.Above all, controls are delayed, sometimes ( but not always ) I must push the buttons twice and so on.NO FUN.
    Still hoping for a patch...

    Button delay is your fault, for not understanding when the engine will delay an input, just as it is your fault when you double input, and your character gets stuck acting out the animations into mid air (whilst getting ravaged from the sides).

    Not everything is your fault though, some things are my fault as well. Like that time when I watched a boulder go flying 4-5 yards to the side of me, but still died.....that is definitely my fault.

    PB manage to implement some kind of major fk up into almost every game they ever made, with Elex, the combat is as bad as it has ever been, apart from Gothic 3 upon release.......oddly, the Community Patch team knocked the Gothic 3 combat up into such a state, that it was easily the best combat system, in any PB game, ever......had to wait about 4-5 years on that patch though, but still, PB should just copy it verbatim, and use it in every game they ever make. They have proven time and time again that developing a good combat system just aint their thing.

    ....with that said, I am still getting a lot of enjoyment out of the game. Nobody quite makes an RPG like PB do, it is just kind of lame the manner in which I am being forced to navigate the game. i.e. luring high level monsters into quest areas to clear up NPC's I find it impossible to deal with...always needing to use companion as bait for enemies.....running, jumping, jet packing, etc to dodge....or just plain old needing 20 attempts at a particular battle........immersion breaking for sure.
    MatDerKater ist offline

  11. #11 Zitieren
    Veteran Avatar von vic1968
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    Not sure yet but it seems is worst than that.Attributes ( like strength, dexterity, intelligence ) do not add to damage did by corresponding weaponIf so, I really hope that was not intended and will be patched.Otherwise I'd start thinking that in PB is at least one funny guy...
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  12. #12 Zitieren
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    Not sure yet but it seems is worst than that.Attributes ( like strength, dexterity, intelligence ) do not add to damage did by corresponding weaponIf so, I really hope that was not intended and will be patched.Otherwise I'd start thinking that in PB is at least one funny guy...
    It is intended. By the end of the game you still gonna be a terminator.
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  13. #13 Zitieren
    Veteran Avatar von vic1968
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    Yeah?Oh, God!In this case, I'm pretty fucked.So, sprinting, jumping ,jet-packing and driving monsters to NPCs...

    They are funny guys indeed...In fact, they always were ( remember the shadowbeast in the forest behind Akyl farm? ) but not like that.
    vic1968 ist offline

  14. #14 Zitieren
    Waldläufer Avatar von The Deuce
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    The most important thing with this combat system is to turn off the "automatic lockon" option. They have hidden it in the "difficulty" settings instead of putting it under control where it belongs.

    Not locking on to monsters means that your character doesn't enter his super slow "combat pose" so you can move much more easily around monsters and dodge their initial attacks just by moving and without loosing to much stamina.

    It plays a lot more like gothic 1 and 2 that way.
    The Deuce ist offline

  15. #15 Zitieren
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    I think the main problem is that gaming has evolved a lot while PB games tend to be the same, not that this one is particulary broken.

    I have completed G1 and G2 about 10 times each, perhaps more. And earlier this year I felt a bit nostalgic, plus I had to give up my gaming rig for a number of months, so I decided to try playing them again starting with G1 and ending with G3. Well, for the first time ever, I gave up on G2 in the middle of it, right after completing the NotR campaign. I just didn't have the patience for all the hit and run involved in clearing those dragons with their hordes of lizardmen.

    Later, I wanted to try a full playthrough of Risen from 1 to 3. I had already completed R1 about 5-6 times, R2 twice and R3 just once despite always saying that I'd have to try a different faction as well. Well... I gave up on R2 after playing about half of it. I admit that I find R2 to be the most unenjoyable game ever but still, me giving up on a game not as old as G2 is saying something.

    And no later than yesterday I decided to take a break from my curret game (I am playing Witcher 3 for the third time) and five Elex a try. Well, imagine the shock of jumping from Witcher 3 into Elex. I know this isn't meant to be an AAA game it shouldn't be compared to one, even with a 2.5 years gap. But I just couldn't help notice how everything is a lot worse. After less than an hour of gameplay I gave up on it (for now) as a third playthrough of Witcher 3 is a lot more satisfying than playing Elex for the first time.

    But I didn't find it to be worse than all of PB games. Sure, it's combat is worse than Risen but I don't think it's any worse than G1 or G2. And what about the combat of G3 which is based around spam clicking? I think the main problem is that with the release of all kinds of different games in the last few years we've come to expect a lot better than the Gothic series.

    Another thing is that not only the Gothic series have aged, we as players have too. I was 14 or 15 years old when I first played Gothic. I did it during the summer break and there wasn't much else to do while at home. Didn't even had a stable internet connection back then. So you can expect me to put up with it and try three times to kill my first molerat. And then do another 10 attempts at defeating someone in the old camp arena before deciding that it's too much for now and I should just move on and come back to it later. Now, I'm 31 years old and I play games after work or during the weekend, certainly less than 10 hours per week. So I know that there are a lot more interesting games released each year than I'd ever have time to actually play. So playing a game that is buggy or punishes me and expects to learn everything the hard way is just not as appealing as it used to be.

    All in all, I will give Elex a proper chance but only after finishing W3 once more. But I can't promise I'm really gonna finish it this time. And you know that as soon as I can't even finish one PB game, I won't bother to even give a chance to the next one. It was fun while it lasted though
    glumetzul ist offline

  16. #16 Zitieren
    Veteran Avatar von vic1968
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    I think we must be fair.The game is good, it has a ton of different quests, there are a lot of memorable NPCs and, above all, it has THE feeling.The PB feeling.After playing through for some time, I'm really enjoying the game.Of course, as it was said, the combat is "utter garbage" and the companions are sometimes idiots but, after getting some decent gear, the game can be played and the wondrous world of Magallan explored.

    I didn't finish the game yet, but I'm close to say that Elex is at the same level with Gothic 2.
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  17. #17 Zitieren
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    I think we must be fair.The game is good, it has a ton of different quests, there are a lot of memorable NPCs and, above all, it has THE feeling.The PB feeling.After playing through for some time, I'm really enjoying the game.Of course, as it was said, the combat is "utter garbage" and the companions are sometimes idiots but, after getting some decent gear, the game can be played and the wondrous world of Magallan explored.

    I didn't finish the game yet, but I'm close to say that Elex is at the same level with Gothic 2.
    Nope.

    The game still has some of the PB feel to it, but has moved more closely to the mainstream RPG model than ever before. Face it, the game just couldn't be played without the mission markers. This was never the case previously, where the gamer got a feel for the world so that he just knew where everything was.

    Also, partially because of the combat, all the missions come at you thick n fast, most of which you can't complete (save for uberlame tactics) because you get wasted by the baddies around the area where the mission takes place. There are so many missions, so much stop starting, that it is hard to keep track of wtf is going on, and who is who. Compared with previous PB games, Elex feels very disjointed, and this doesn't serve for immersion. They just haven't taken the same amount of care in how the different progression paths have been crafted.

    Far from being PB back to their best, I am finding that Elex is the PB rpg which I am getting the least enjoyment from thus far. Immensely enjoyed the first 2 Gothics, and Gothic 3 with the CP 1.75, and all the Risen games. Elex, is kind of ok. I am motivated enough to play it, but can also put it down easily enough as well, something I used to have difficulty doing with PB's previous games.

    Edit: Almost had enough of this clunky sh1t combat......clunky horrible delays to perform all actions, which pretty much takes any skill out of the equation, whilst enemies zip around and wipe out Jax with one single bite, that I couldn't avoid, cos I couldn't get Jax to run, or rocket boost in time, despite seeing the lunge coming a mile off....awful awful awful system, I think I am not far from being put right off the game by it tbh.....wouldn't be so bad if they structured the game in a way that I could choose missions that involved encountering enemies that I could mostly handle, leaving the higher end missions with higher end rewards for later, but nope.....deadly high level beasts roam all around.

    This sort of routine sums this game up:

    NPC:" go fetch me some bundles of hay and I will reward you with some turnip soup"
    Hero:"Okay, No Problem"

    At hayfield:

    Hero "Arghh no, a level 60 three headed Orcish Alligator demon"
    Orcish Alligator " Bite"
    Her0: "dead immediately"

    After 10 attempts, solution is to get companion to fight Orcish Alligator monster, whilst I run around and scoop up the hay, before legging it for my free bowl of turnip soup and 50 experience points.

    I don't mind hard, infact I like hard which is why I started my game on Ultra difficulty settings, but Elex is hard in a very very bad way. This is one very clumsily poorly constructed game, or if it is by intention, then PB need to take a long rethink.

    I think Elex is going to go back on the shelf until at least a gameplay altering patch is released.....free time is too valuable for this.
    MatDerKater ist offline Geändert von MatDerKater (07.11.2017 um 23:06 Uhr)

  18. #18 Zitieren
    Veteran Avatar von vic1968
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    I think Elex is going to go back on the shelf until at least a gameplay altering patch is released.....free time is too valuable for this.
    I'm sorry to hear this.Although I agree with you on most statements, I observed something: after improving my fighting skills, those delays seems to have vanished or it seems so.I think that is the real PB style: you must walk with fear in their world, at least in the begining.However, after a while, the player is rewarded and the game is really opening.So it was in Gothic 1 and 2 with some, let's say, exploits: there were free paths or some NPCs which opened the paths.Here are teleportation devices and jetpack.
    Perhaps the game must not be played on Ultra, is hard enough on Easy.At least, in the first complete playthrough.
    vic1968 ist offline

  19. #19 Zitieren
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    Zitat Zitat von MatDerKater Beitrag anzeigen
    I don't mind hard, infact I like hard which is why I started my game on Ultra difficulty settings, but Elex is hard in a very very bad way.
    I plan to play on Ultra, too, these days most games are designed to be played by children without any effort. I'm really curious now, what this often criticized combat system feels like...
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  20. #20 Zitieren
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    I'm sorry to hear this.Although I agree with you on most statements, I observed something: after improving my fighting skills, those delays seems to have vanished or it seems so.I think that is the real PB style: you must walk with fear in their world, at least in the begining.However, after a while, the player is rewarded and the game is really opening.So it was in Gothic 1 and 2 with some, let's say, exploits: there were free paths or some NPCs which opened the paths.Here are teleportation devices and jetpack.
    Perhaps the game must not be played on Ultra, is hard enough on Easy.At least, in the first complete playthrough.
    Stopped playing it on ultra some time ago...bumped down to normal, with Auto-Lock switched off.

    Zitat Zitat von rotator Beitrag anzeigen
    I plan to play on Ultra, too, these days most games are designed to be played by children without any effort. I'm really curious now, what this often criticized combat system feels like...
    The often criticised combat is bad, in a kind of that lunge/projectile missed me by miles, yet I am still insta killed, bad. Also, often commands don't respond quick enough. It is one thing, being locked into a 'timed' combat system, it is quite another thing when your jetpack fails to activate and you get insta-killed by this games equivalent of a wild boar....

    .....then there is the way that monsters chase you half the distance of the map, generally not bothering to attack/hunt/prey upon each other, getting attacked during dialogue with NPCs, the totally inadequate mechanics for dealing with more than one enemy at a time, the lame way you will find yourself using your 'companion' as bate during combat, cos it's the only viable method available to you.
    MatDerKater ist offline

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