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  1. #81 Zitieren
    Schwertmeister Avatar von warstrike
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    Zitat Zitat von The Ore Baron Beitrag anzeigen
    The forum, at least the English section, has been pretty quiet lately.
    I'm just a little sad, is all. It didn't even take a month after the game was released for all the hype and interest to die out. It's like everyone finished the game in fifty hours and forgot all about it. Now we're just waiting for a new announcement.

    I don't want PB games to be like that, these one-time hits. I mean, it's just lame to spend three years eagerly awaiting a game just to be done with it in, what, three days? I was hoping for something I would want to replay several times, even in ten years time. Oh well.
    Well ,lucky for me ,i still enjoy playing Gothic 1 and Gothic 2 ,even now ,after 10-12 years
    But yes ,Risen games are not like that.Nowadays ,there are big games getting released every month so it's to be expected that many people lose interest.
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  2. #82 Zitieren
    Provinzheld Avatar von Nikolai81
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    Here's a great homage to Gothic, from Risen 3. The original scene comes at the end. Couldn't find a better thread to post this in, so feel free to move it.

    In any case: Ha, ha, ha.

    [Video]
    "Das war's mit dir, du Mistvieh!"
    "Verdammte Enten!"
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  3. #83 Zitieren
    Knight Avatar von Ariogaisus
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    Zitat Zitat von The Ore Baron Beitrag anzeigen
    The forum, at least the English section, has been pretty quiet lately.
    I'm just a little sad, is all. It didn't even take a month after the game was released for all the hype and interest to die out. It's like everyone finished the game in fifty hours and forgot all about it. Now we're just waiting for a new announcement.

    I don't want PB games to be like that, these one-time hits. I mean, it's just lame to spend three years eagerly awaiting a game just to be done with it in, what, three days? I was hoping for something I would want to replay several times, even in ten years time. Oh well.
    This is pretty much how all Euro-RPG makers turn out, with the exception of CDProjekt Red ofc.
    Remember that game, Venetica? Neither do I.
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  4. #84 Zitieren
    Knight
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    Zitat Zitat von The Ore Baron Beitrag anzeigen
    The forum, at least the English section, has been pretty quiet lately.
    I'm just a little sad, is all. It didn't even take a month after the game was released for all the hype and interest to die out. It's like everyone finished the game in fifty hours and forgot all about it. Now we're just waiting for a new announcement.

    I don't want PB games to be like that, these one-time hits. I mean, it's just lame to spend three years eagerly awaiting a game just to be done with it in, what, three days? I was hoping for something I would want to replay several times, even in ten years time. Oh well.
    Well yeah but for something like that, at least in my opinion, you need really memorable characters and story that makes you think a little, that is maybe even a little provocative.

    In PB's case, just remember end of G2. We talked about it for a long time after it. Why? Well, because noone saw that ending coming, and it was a bit vague, but also rather provoking. Xardas was helping you out and how he's telling you straight in face few things. And you are like OMFG, is he...betraying me, the player? Is he using me? It can't be, he looked like he was really a good guy...sort of. :P

    Risen 1 and 2 (didn't play R3), had this problem that they simple didn't have such characters. Mendoza wasn't too horrible but really, he wasn't a character i'd really care at all.

    In Risen 2, i'd say Cpt. Steelbeard was maybe a tad better, how he struggled to understand his situation..i think that was a good try at least. But otherwise, PB lately just isn't making interesting characters or shocking story twists, especially at the end, that would make you want to debate farther. You finished your goal, that is. Nothing really to debate.

    To change that, Pb would need to work on those areas much harder i think. OF course, as i said, didn't play R3, maybe it was better.
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  5. #85 Zitieren
    Knight Avatar von catalinux
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    I finished R3 in 54 hours, as a voodoo pirate, than I tried to play it for a second time as a guardian, but I got bored after a few hours and I quit playing it.

    In my opinion, Gothic 1 and 2 survived so long because of the modkid. After so many years, people still create mods for G1 and G2, mods that are interesting, and many of them came with new features.

    That's why probably R3 will remain a one-time experience. The game is decent, some islands are beautiful, but it lacks interesting characters, the combat is boring, the plot is mediocre, and so on.

    I myself was surprised how soon we stoped really talking about R3. But let's face it, there isn't much to say about it. We finished it, we said our feeling about it, and that's all. The game is so linear and easy to solve that we didn't even had to ask for help.

    So probably we keep coming back to this place waiting the find when PB will announce their next game.
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  6. #86 Zitieren
    Warrior
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    Zitat Zitat von Ariogaisus Beitrag anzeigen
    Remember that game, Venetica? Neither do I.
    Yeah, I do remember. A very enjoyable light RPG.
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  7. #87 Zitieren
    Knight Avatar von Ariogaisus
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    Zitat Zitat von rotator Beitrag anzeigen
    Yeah, I do remember. A very enjoyable light RPG.
    Yes, but most of the "gaming-world" doesn't probably give a shit about this at all, never did.
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  8. #88 Zitieren
    Warrior
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    Zitat Zitat von Ariogaisus Beitrag anzeigen
    Yes, but most of the "gaming-world" doesn't probably give a shit about this at all, never did.
    Most of the "gaming-world" probably doesn't give a shit about any of the classic Piranha Bytes games either.

    I can imagine the interest factor of the "gaming-world" on a 10-point scale as:

    Venetica - 1/10
    Gothics - 3/10
    Elder Scrolls, Mass Effects - 10/10
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  9. #89 Zitieren
    Provinzheld Avatar von Nikolai81
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    In case you're interested, Kai Rosenkranz is active on the Steam forum for Risen 3 now. Here's a relevant quote:

    Zitat Zitat von Kai Rosenkranz
    Thanks, so kind of you to say that. I like the soundtracks for Risen 2 & 3, and it was really interesting for me to hear how other composers picked up my styles and themes and added their personal touch. I haven't yet made any plans regarding a reunion with the Piranhas, and they seem very happy with their new audio guy, whom I like very much. But since I'm completely hooked again for making music, I'll just wait what the future brings and focus on my private album for now. I have a day job, after all, and a massive RPG is probably beyond what I can do in my spare time .
    "Das war's mit dir, du Mistvieh!"
    "Verdammte Enten!"
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  10. #90 Zitieren
    Knight Avatar von Dez
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    Zitat Zitat von catalinux Beitrag anzeigen
    That's why probably R3 will remain a one-time experience. The game is decent, some islands are beautiful, but it lacks interesting characters, the combat is boring, the plot is mediocre, and so on.

    I myself was surprised how soon we stoped really talking about R3. But let's face it, there isn't much to say about it. We finished it, we said our feeling about it, and that's all. The game is so linear and easy to solve that we didn't even had to ask for help.
    Player made mods have naturally some important relevance, but in my opinion the main reason why Gothic series remains still relevant to modern audience is the fact that the games are just darn well designed and writen.

    Surely they have aged a bit and thus lost some of their orginal glory, but despite their age, gothics are still fun games to play. On top of that their music scores are memorable and they are still visually quite intresting and unique. The gothic universe just pulls you in from the very moment you begin playing it.

    The gameworlds in gothic games are one of the most immersive gameworlds out there and they're packed with memorable characters. And furthermore the main storyline has quite much depth. It may not seem so at first, but when you dig deeper into gothic lore, you reveal new layers underneath traditional looking fantasy. And its lovely how each game is built on previous games. Gothic 2 and gothic 3 continued where previous game left us.

    Remember how many theads we had about topics like: Sleeper, orc wars, Vatras' sermon, undead dragon, Xardas, Magic ore, Gods, nature of rune magic, mages, Chronomanin, old camp history, ...

    I don't think Risen series has that kind of mythology or even continuity behind it. Risens are quite simple games really and there are no hidden meanings or secrets to found in risen storyline.

    I've thought this some time and I firmly belive that with Risen 1 Piranha Bytes were aiming to that same direction, but they ran out of the time to properly realize their vision. Risen 1 was a great game, but it lacked something which gothics had. Still out of all risen games, Risen 1 still inspires me the most. The game feels almost like gothics.

    With risen 2 piranha bytes decided to change Risen series into more light hearted and straightforward adventure tale, but at the same they broke many lore elements which Risen 1 had established. I could get past changed gameplay, but i did not recognize the changed gameworld. It felt somewhat familiar, but "magic" was lost (and literally too! )

    Risen 3 tried to melt everything together and it was a successfull attempt. Sadly the game wasn't quite memorable. A fun game to play through, but far behind gothics. It was an enjoyable game (7/10 or something like that), but suffered from medicore story and severe balance issues. I will probably replay risen 3 at some point though. I want to experience the game from the demon hunter point of view, but its not something i'd put first on my gaming list

    This is how i'd rate pbs games from best to worst:

    Gothic 2 gold > gothic 1 > Risen 1 > gothic 3 cp 1.75 > Risen 3 > Risen 2

    So probably we keep coming back to this place waiting the find when PB will announce their next game.
    That is also true Hopefully its a brand new setting or gothic sequel rather than risen 4.
    Dez ist offline Geändert von Dez (30.01.2015 um 14:15 Uhr)

  11. #91 Zitieren
    Warrior Avatar von Morgannin09
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    The Gothic games are literally timeless (apart from the fact that you have to do so much just to get them to run on any computer these days). I just finished my overwhelming walkthrough for Gothic 3 a few weeks ago. Now I'm gonna re-do my walkthrough for the first game all over again. And I'm watching for updates on all sorts of mods for each of them these days, many of which look extremely promising.

    This is what Piranha Bytes should keep in mind. The appeal of the Gothic games is how much you can do in them, which includes how much you CANNOT do in a single playthrough. They really keep you playing because you always want to try a different route to the ending as soon as you finished the last one. And making the games more mod-friendly would go a long way in keeping the interest and passion of the fans alive until the next title, and also really allow the fans to show PB what we really want next time, by making the damn features ourselves.
    YouTube channel for Let's Plays and shenanigans: https://www.youtube.com/c/Morgannin
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  12. #92 Zitieren
    Demigod Avatar von Dino
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    That is also true Hopefully its a brand new setting or gothic sequel rather than risen 4.
    I'd really rather have a new game which takes place in the Gothic universe. Whether it's before or after the events of g1-g3, I'd prefer it over another risen product.

    Speaking of the replay value of the Gothics, this week I replayed Night of the Raven twice. I'm planning to play it a third time too but I don't know, I also kind of feel like playing gothic 1 again.
    And it's been 12 years since I first laid my hands on those games. I can't say the same for any other titles out there.
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  13. #93 Zitieren
    Knight Avatar von Dez
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    Same here and I agree about the replay value of gothic series... I've also replayed gothics through quite many times and I will replay them once again when sooner or later.

    I'd not hesitate if piranha bytes for example decided to do a kickstarter campaign collecting funds for the next gothic game! Better for us would be naturally if they got a publishing deal because these type of games are quite costy to develop.
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  14. #94 Zitieren
    Warrior Avatar von The Ore Baron
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    I've been thinking a little, and I decided I do not want PB to work on a Gothic game. With the way the Risen games turned out to be, I don't think just returning to a familiar setting will be enough to produce a quality Gothic game. And although the original games would still be there, I do believe mediocre sequels ruin the previous games to an extent, as well. So I think they should either work on Risen 4 and finally finish the Titan War saga, or develop a completely new game.

    Not sure what has to change, though. I think I'm starting to deal with the fact that PB will never reach the golden heights of their past works we oh so annoyingly (albeit rightfully) praise. The team has changed, the level of personal investment has changed, the industry has changed... Too many variables to just expect some convenient realignment of everything that caused the latest PB games to be sub-par.

    I'm not saying I no longer love PB, no. They're still one of my favorite developers. Mainly, I still think they design well-crafted and beautiful levels, something other similar games are yet to provide. The writing may suck, and the non-Kai soundtracks are hardly memorable, but PB games are still among the most immersive games around just because of the worlds they design, as tubular as they are.

    What are you opinions on this subject? Now that we had some time to think and calm our passions, maybe your outlook on PB's future has changed as well? Are you still excited about their new project? Do you think Mike's side project could be the spiritual torch-bearer of the classic PB spirit?

    Also, any news from the German section? I check the news bulletin regularly, but nothing major is being anounced. Maybe the developers have dropped some hints or something?
    The Ore Baron ist offline

  15. #95 Zitieren
    Adventurer Avatar von Misanthrope
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    They should follow their vision, whatever it is at the moment. Ours is to decide if we wish to keep supporting this idea or not. And of course, it would require A LOT more than just placing a game in a Gothic setting. First and foremost passion and creative charge, but also a HUGE amount of self criticism from their side. Sad thing is they've stated themselves they don't think they "have what it takes" (not the actual quote) to make another Gothic project. And that's what frustrates me the most. If you don't have enough faith in your project why anyone else should.

    They need to bring their old passion back to the equation or hire someone weit deep understanding of Gothic and what it meant to us players. IMO, they are in a very good shape as developers (R3 was technically quite polished). It's just... coordination from the top - not as many of us would like. Also, from a business perspective, having a "Gothic" brand at your disposal and not using is a terrible waste of potential.

    Now, regarding the future PB projects. Honestly, I'm trying hard to come up with a reason to wish for another Risen game, but I can't. This has nothing to do with my overall mild-positive view on the game, it's that it simply failed to intrigue my imagination in any direction. Risen 4 or a new franchise - I give my vote for new franchise (although I already see them contemplating on three additional pirate captains).
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  16. #96 Zitieren
    Local Hero Avatar von Delicieuxz
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    Remakes of Gothic 1 and 2 are definitely needed at some point. And even a remake of Gothic 3 - where they use the world and story, but revamp the quest structure so that it's more like Gothic 1 & 2 in design, and less like a modern TES game.
    Delicieuxz ist offline

  17. #97 Zitieren
    Warrior Avatar von The Ore Baron
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    Zitat Zitat von Misanthrope Beitrag anzeigen
    Now, regarding the future PB projects. Honestly, I'm trying hard to come up with a reason to wish for another Risen game, but I can't. This has nothing to do with my overall mild-positive view on the game, it's that it simply failed to intrigue my imagination in any direction.
    While I understand this is a viable opinion, I must say I disagree. Although I liked how the first Risen game introduced a setting that was something like a more exotic Gothic, I think PB did a really good job at creating a rather unique pirate setting in their later two games. The blend of traditional magic with pirate legends, voodoo magic and colonial traditions turned out quite alright, I think. Sure, the setting could use a lot more polish, but the base for fun and immersive adventures is there. That's why I'd be rather excited for another pirate-themed Risen game... but only if PB makes some believable promises on improving their past faults, mainly writing. By Innos, I still feel vestiges of anger when I think of how bad the writing of Risen 3 was...

    Zitat Zitat von Delicieuxz Beitrag anzeigen
    Remakes of Gothic 1 and 2 are definitely needed at some point. And even a remake of Gothic 3 - where they use the world and story, but revamp the quest structure so that it's more like Gothic 1 & 2 in design, and less like a modern TES game.
    And what exactly is there to 'remake' in a Gothic remake? Improvements to script? New content? A graphical uplift?
    I don't know, to me, Gothic 1 and 2 are great as they are, especially with high-res texture mods. Gameplay might have aged badly a little, but I don't think a new control scheme is reason enough for a remake. So what enhancements and additional content would you like to see in Gothic remakes? I suppose they could expand upon the lore more, with introduction of more books or character dialogues dealing with history of the Gothic world, but - not to repeat myself like a parrot - I don't think PB's current writing team are up to the challenge of not only improving, but not ruining the already established lore.
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  18. #98 Zitieren
    Warrior Avatar von Morgannin09
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    Zitat Zitat von The Ore Baron Beitrag anzeigen
    By Innos, I still feel vestiges of anger when I think of how bad the writing of Risen 3 was...
    The writing in Risen 3 was vastly improved over Risen 2, in my opinion. Risen 2 brought with it a lot of plot holes, major characters and lore developments failed to carry over or progress from the first game, and every new thing it introduced was very bland and generic. It's hard to even criticize, to be honest, because none of it left enough of an impression for me to even remember why I didn't like it.

    Risen 3 TRIED. It was a monumental task that was already undermined by how bad Risen 2 was, but questions we had from the first game came to be answered, just not always in a fully satisfying and believable way. The Mages, for example, were literally not mentioned in Risen 2. No idea what was supposed to have happened to them. Risen 3 clarified that they were exiled by the Inquisition after a feud following the King's death. A couple things weren't answered to my liking, such as the disappearance of crystal and rune magic. Somehow both of those things made a return in Risen 3 (crystals for mages, runes for Demon Hunters), and neither faction made it clear how they were able to find it again or what happened to it in the first place.

    Personally, they've given me confidence that they can pull together a cohesive and satisfying story NOW, where they failed before, as one of the things they mentioned was they began using an internal Wiki when designing their story to ensure that they all have access to story details as they develop them, whereas they admitted they used to lose some of the notes they would write during the development of the Gothic and first Risen games.

    If PB REALLY took the time to refresh themselves on the Gothic games, I think they could pull off a remake, fleshing out the story and characters more since they already have a firm foundation for it. Rebuilding the games on an improved engine (not the Genome engine, for goodness sake), with superior graphics and animations, as well as better combat controls and variety to skills and magic, and a more extensive story... I'd buy that all day. I just want to see one solid RPG from them before I could have faith in them pulling that off.
    YouTube channel for Let's Plays and shenanigans: https://www.youtube.com/c/Morgannin
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  19. #99 Zitieren
    Knight Avatar von catalinux
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    Lately I've seen that the guys from PB spend a lot of time playing video games, every week there is at least a new video of them on yt. I hope they will not be influenced by that sort of video games they are playing. And it would be nice if in their next game we will see a human settlement with more than 5 houses and 10 inhabitants.
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  20. #100 Zitieren
    Warrior Avatar von The Ore Baron
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    Zitat Zitat von catalinux Beitrag anzeigen
    Lately I've seen that the guys from PB spend a lot of time playing video games, every week there is at least a new video of them on yt. I hope they will not be influenced by that sort of video games they are playing. And it would be nice if in their next game we will see a human settlement with more than 5 houses and 10 inhabitants.
    What are these games in question, and where can I see guys from PB playing them? I wasn't even aware they had a YT channel Do they post these videos on their Facebook? Most of the content there is in German, so I don't check their page very often...

    Also, here's a Risen 3 screenshot I retouched a little, I think it looks quite neat

    EDIT

    Oh, and yes, I've been meaning to reply to Morgannin's post for a while now. It's a little late, but better than never

    Zitat Zitat von Morgannin09 Beitrag anzeigen
    The writing in Risen 3 was vastly improved over Risen 2, in my opinion.
    The quality of separate lines and wording - yes, it saw an improvement. Risen 3 offers more varied dialogue, different speech patterns, even more humor. However, the quality of how the main plot was written and told... It's a different business altogether.

    Zitat Zitat von Morgannin09 Beitrag anzeigen
    Risen 2 brought with it a lot of plot holes, major characters and lore developments failed to carry over or progress from the first game, and every new thing it introduced was very bland and generic. It's hard to even criticize, to be honest, because none of it left enough of an impression for me to even remember why I didn't like it.
    And Risen 3 continued this trend very successfully. Not only it didn't even attempt to build on top of what Risen 2 set forth, it created entirely new plot elements that had very little to do with the previous games. The entire game is a big side-conflict to the Titan War and, despite the title, features only one Titan Lord.

    Zitat Zitat von Morgannin09 Beitrag anzeigen
    Risen 3 TRIED.
    It didn't, it really didn't. The answer about why the mages were banished was answered in the manual of Risen 2. And then you yourself admit that several questions remained unanswered and strange events were unexplained.

    Zitat Zitat von Morgannin09 Beitrag anzeigen
    Personally, they've given me confidence that they can pull together a cohesive and satisfying story NOW, where they failed before, as one of the things they mentioned was they began using an internal Wiki when designing their story to ensure that they all have access to story details as they develop them, whereas they admitted they used to lose some of the notes they would write during the development of the Gothic and first Risen games.
    Funny, because those games turned out way better plot-wise. If this gives you confidence - fine, I'm in no place to judge. But to me, the only thing PB proved is that they can only improve in some ways by worsening in others. And to me that just isn't good enough.
    Also, it would be very interesting to read through that internal wiki... I wish they would publish it or something
    The Ore Baron ist offline Geändert von The Ore Baron (12.03.2015 um 13:36 Uhr)

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