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  1. #21 Zitieren
    Schwertmeister Avatar von Roleplayer
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    Zitat Zitat von Maladiq Beitrag anzeigen
    Bjoern is a a Piranha.
    [Bild: 217.gif]

    This "Piranha" ruined all PB traditions with Risen 2 and continues to do it with Risen 3.

    Zitat Zitat von rotator Beitrag anzeigen
    Any info/rumors on Mike Hoge's departure? Reason, when and where did he go, etc?
    I heard it from elind. She is the second most reliable source after PB.
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  2. #22 Zitieren
    World of Elex  Avatar von Ravenhearth
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    Although Björn was the project manager for Risen 2 and 3, he is not the only gamedesigner or storywriter at PB, and Mike Hoge worked on Risen 2, too. It's not Björns fault alone that Risen 2 wasn't that good and it isn't his fault alone that Risen 3 won't be as good as the old games (as I suppose).
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  3. #23 Zitieren
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    Zitat Zitat von rotator Beitrag anzeigen
    Any info/rumors on Mike Hoge's departure? Reason, when and where did he go, etc? He was a very passionate developer/designer and certainly the head of Piranha Bytes (and the Gothic nameless hero ) for years.

    Zitat Zitat von Roleplayer Beitrag anzeigen
    I heard it from elind. She is the second most reliable source after PB.
    True that. Also, based on the fact that Harry didn't answer my question concerning Mike, if he still is on board, that makes it basically official.


    Zitat Zitat von Roleplayer Beitrag anzeigen

    This "Piranha" ruined all PB traditions with Risen 2 and continues to do it with Risen 3.
    Zitat Zitat von ravenhearth Beitrag anzeigen
    Although Björn was the project manager for Risen 2 and 3, he is not the only gamedesigner or storywriter at PB, and Mike Hoge worked on Risen 2, too. It's not Björns fault alone that Risen 2 wasn't that good and it isn't his fault alone that Risen 3 won't be as good as the old games (as I suppose).
    As I said before, game designer work on a couple of different ideas, pitch them to the publisher, and they decide on one of them. Since Mike took a step back after Risen 1, I suspect that Risen 2 was Bjoern't pitch and he is entirely responsible for the disaster. I guess Mike pitched a better idea, which kept the basic points of Risen 1, and when he got rejected for an inferior project, he only stayed as long as he was contractually obligated, and left immediately after the game design work was done for Risen 2. So by the time it was launched, he was far far away.

    Anyway, as Project Manager, Bjoern had the power to overrule any idea and suggestion, so I guess everything is directly imputable to him.

    But Bjoern is one of the "originals", and even though we didn't like the finished product, that cannot be changed.
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  4. #24 Zitieren
    Ranger Avatar von Andante
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    Things I want: 1)A new graphics engine 2) A new franchise (not another Gothic) 3) A fully open world (no invisible barriers, no loading zones, gothic 2 size)
    4) medieval style (axes, bows, swords,magic)
    5) free swimming/climbing
    6) an emphasis to exploration 7) tree climbing to see where you are (like Bilbo does in the hobbit movie) and the ability to use a bow from up there 8) dynamic weather (from sunny to cloudy in real time) 9) an immersive fighting system based on the players skill 10) all actions performed ingame (even inventory search)
    11) a town with no loading when you enter
    12) good and simple storyline
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  5. #25 Zitieren
    Demigod Avatar von Dino
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    IMO, getting a powerful engine will land them in the big leagues.

    this
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  6. #26 Zitieren
    Warrior Avatar von The Ore Baron
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    Didn't we already have a thread like this?

    I, for one, don't really care about the engine, they could reuse the one they used in the original Gothic, I don't really care about melting ice or realistic grass physics simulation. Me does not equal the rest of the populace, of course, so I do agree that keeping up with the latest technological developments is a good way to stay relevant in the business.

    As for the game itself, I would really like Gothic V set after Forsaken Gods, Arcania and Fall of Setarrif - I just hate it when series has non-canon games that just awkwadly remain there, despite everyone trying to wish them out of existance.

    Here's my thoughts on the future of the Gothic series (my first post on WoG, actually). I marked the plot and new world ideas in bold.
    Spoiler:(zum lesen bitte Text markieren)
    First and foremost, PB themselves have expressed wishes to move away from fantasy-themed settings of sword and sorcery. This is solely their decision, and if they choose to start developing a sci-fi game, I don't think fans will have any sort of right to be angry.

    However, our opinions concerning the actual future of the Gothic series should be noted and listened to, even if the ultimate decision will be made without heeding the advice of fans. Problem is, the community does not seem to reach a consensus as to what exactly they would all want to see. Until this happens, our mixed opinions and inner fighting will only add to the further confusion of PB.

    Now, that being said, on to the topic at hand:

    I, for one, believe that Gothic 5 should follow the events of Forsaken Gods, Arcania and Fall of Setarrif. I understand why some players don't want to consider them canon Gothic games and I am not saying these additions to the series were quality products. What I am saying, however, is that returning the series to an earlier stage, creating new, separate sequels next to already existing ones, rewriting the stories and creating different timelines will only make things worse in the long run.

    Think about it: even if PB creates a new Gothic game and it becomes a huge success, the series will never shake the gloomy shadow of FG, Arcania and FoS - the family outcasts, the series rejects. These games will not stop existing or being available to play. Future fans will be coming up with all sorts of weird theories as to how the non-canon games could actually be canon. Heck, FG, Arcania and FoS will still be mentioned in every article, document and wiki page concerning the series, only this time, they will all have an annoying note next to them, marking them out as something to be ignored. This aesthetic mess of having non-canon games in the series is exactly what I would like PB to avoid in the future.

    And when you really think about it... the non-PB games weren't so bad, really. Forsaken Gods has a rather well-put story, nicely connecting Gothic 3 with Arcania. Frankly, I really liked the conflict between Gorn and Thorus, the return of old artifacts from earlier games and the general feeling of an actually continued story of Gothic. Sure, several side-quests were silly, but apart from that, I really can't say I have much problem with Forsaken Gods, especially after enhancing the add-on with the community patch. Arcania, while having a completely un-Gothic feeling to it, managed to present itself as a rather solid (even if not an innovative) game by itself, featuring a duller plot, fetching quests and linear level progression, yet managing to extend the lore and the world of Gothic without messing it up too much. Fall of Setarrif was just a conclusion to that.

    Really now, what exactly has changed? The new games did not introduce elven or dwarven races, did not directly contradict earlier events and left more than enough space for future works. If PB were to develop a new Gothic game, all they'd have to do would be coming up with some retcon to fix the few inconsistencies between the games and simply build on top.

    My idea for the plot of Gothic 5 would be something like this: Rhobar III returns as the elderly hero of the first games, now the king of Myrtana. The nameless hero of Feshyr becomes the newest addition to the circle of king's friend-advisers (Diego, Milten, Lester, Gorn and others), having proved himself in Arcania and FoS. Both of these characters are featured as quest-giving NPCs. A new hero is presented and the players are swept into a new adventure, involving the continued conquest campaigns of Rhobar III further into the world of Gothic, perhaps featuring a new, unexplored continent with new mysteries and dangers. Imagine being a knight in the the Myrtanian army, involved in colonial operations, mapping the new continent, fighting the natives, exploring old ruins... I think that would be interesting and would serve well for a sequel.

    Okay, I've already said too much for my first post on these forums, so I'll just wrap it up real quick:
    a) disregarding the non-PB games as non-canon and pushing PB to create surrogates for them would lead to unnecessary mess and confusion in the long-term future;
    b) non-PB games are not as bad a some of you seem to think and can be easily integrated into the continuity of Gothic series;
    c) the new Gothic game could feature a new hero and have the previous protagonists serving non-playable roles in the game - this would nicely mark the return of PB to the steering wheel of Gothic series and finally let us all to put the mistakes and misfortunes of the past to rest.


    As far as gameplay changes go, I'd like to see quicker combat - enemies falling in three or four hits, not thirty. Of course, the main character should also become more vulnerable, which would, in turn, mean relying on shield and evasive moves a lot more, while also making health potions valuable and a worthwhile investment when deciding where to spend the very limited amount of money game provides the player with.

    Basically, I would prefer a classic PB game with Dark Souls style of fighting
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  7. #27 Zitieren
    Warrior Avatar von Morgannin09
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    Zitat Zitat von The Ore Baron Beitrag anzeigen
    Didn't we already have a thread like this?

    I, for one, don't really care about the engine, they could reuse the one they used in the original Gothic, I don't really care about melting ice or realistic grass physics simulation. Me does not equal the rest of the populace, of course, so I do agree that keeping up with the latest technological developments is a good way to stay relevant in the business.
    The big reason for the desire for an improved engine is because of how limited the gameplay of Risen 2 and, inevitably, Risen 3 will be as a result of it. The scope of their vision is beyond what their engine can provide, and this is why we get levels divided by loading screens, and a pirate game where you don't even get to control your own ship, among other problems. We just want them to be able to create a fulfilling game that isn't chopped in bite sized pieces that lead us down a series of tube-like pathways.
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  8. #28 Zitieren
    World of Elex  Avatar von Ravenhearth
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    All those things are definitely NOT the engine's fault. The genome engine is capable of handling a huge open world without loading screens (in fact, the world of Risen 2 is one single world and traveling with the ship works like teleporting in Risen 1; the were loading screens, too). The fact that Risen 2 and 3 doesn't have a really open world was a design decision and perhaps also was due to the old consoles. But the genome engine itself is powerful enough and could lay the foundation for an open world game, especially on the next gen consoles and the pc. And even if it weren't, Piranha Bytes could enhance and improve their engine. An engine is not an solid, unchangeable piece of software. There is absolutely no need for an completely new engine.
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  9. #29 Zitieren
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    Zitat Zitat von ravenhearth Beitrag anzeigen
    But the genome engine itself is powerful enough and could lay the foundation for an open world game, especially on the next gen consoles and the pc.
    No. No it is not.
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  10. #30 Zitieren
    World of Elex  Avatar von Ravenhearth
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    Do you have any evidence for your claim?
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  11. #31 Zitieren
    Warrior Avatar von Morgannin09
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    Zitat Zitat von ravenhearth Beitrag anzeigen
    All those things are definitely NOT the engine's fault. The genome engine is capable of handling a huge open world without loading screens (in fact, the world of Risen 2 is one single world and traveling with the ship works like teleporting in Risen 1; the were loading screens, too).
    I'll stop you there and say a big fat NO. There is no single world in Risen 2. You cannot go from one landmass to another without a loading screen. They aren't even loaded at the same time, which is WHY we get a loading screen, because it's LOADING the island you're travelling to. Look outside at the ocean, look for any other islands or landmasses in the distance. You won't see any, because they aren't loaded. Try fast travelling to one of the other islands through the map, and it won't work, because you first have to travel there by ship, so that the game will load the other island. (Or at least I don't think you can. Either way, it takes more to load another island than it takes to teleport from the pirate camp to DiFuego's outpost, both on Tacarigua.)
    As for why Risen had loading screens after teleporting, it's because while the game has the full landmass loaded, it doesn't have it fully rendered at all times. Certain objects like barrels and vegetation, as well as monsters and scripts, all get loaded as you travel through the map. The landscape was there, but the details were not. You could run from one end of the island to the other without a loading screen, because (as long as your computer was powerful enough), it could simply load the finer details as you went along, and unload the stuff you wandered too far away from. Teleporting to a faraway location means it has to render a whole bunch of these details at once. They give a loading screen for this, because Gothic 3 didn't have loading screens for teleporting, and so the game would freeze up on one frame as it rendered everything at your destination. This annoyed a lot of people because they thought the game was freezing on them, and so PB, I'm assuming, added loading screens in Risen just so people wouldn't mistakenly believe that the game froze when they teleported.
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  12. #32 Zitieren
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    Zitat Zitat von ravenhearth Beitrag anzeigen
    Do you have any evidence for your claim?
    The lighting/shadow system is crap, the number of triangles is limited, so is the draw distance, it needs heavy programming just to implement a different camera type, it needs heavy programming to introduce swimming and diving.

    It needs REALLY HEAVY PROGRAMMING if you want to introduce anything more exotic, such as destroyable object, transformable object, it doesn't support non-static meshes (dunno what they are called, meshes which change their shape and number of triangles) or just object interaction in general, shaders still need a lot of unnecessary effort, and the game is really heavy on the resources considering it's quality.

    The engine needs also a lot of work in order to give out a mod-kit and it is DirectX9.

    And that is the tip of the iceberg.
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  13. #33 Zitieren
    Auserwählter
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    Zitat Zitat von Maladiq Beitrag anzeigen
    it needs heavy programming to introduce swimming
    At least this point is not entirely correct, as swimming was possible in Gothic 3 already, when the Gnome Engine made its first appearens. But I would agree with you that the engine is outdated and I suspect that part of the problem with updating it is, that their lead/senior programmer Carsten Edenfeld, who must have had much insight into the engine, left PB after fixing the engine and I think it was even prior to the release of Risen. I think it is an indication for this that Risen 2 had a lot of grafic bugs where Risen was basically unproblematic.
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  14. #34 Zitieren
    Warrior Avatar von The Ore Baron
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    I remember when Risen was still in the promotional stage and all we had were some lousy artwork pictures of a gauntlet.

    Someone on WoG nicknamed the game as Celtic.

    If all else fails, PB could try to create a third RPB game, centered around Celtic culture in a fantasy world reminiscent of Gothic. And yes, I know Gothic had little to do with Gothic culture.

    Which begs the question: why was Gothic called Gothic in the first place?
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  15. #35 Zitieren
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    For the most recent Elex news, the new Piranha Bytes RPG, visit us at World of Elex!!!
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  16. #36 Zitieren
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    Zitat Zitat von warstrike Beitrag anzeigen
    Doesn't matter . It seems to me that they got lucky with Gothic 1 and Gothic 2. Since G3 they started to mess up things ,never got it right as they did when they first started ....seems to me just a lucky shot :-)
    G3 was unpolished gem, with Community patch, alternative AI on it is a great game. The guild reputation is great system, having to do quests in a way that gives you REP to one guild or the other, and doing quests in such order to get the most out of all guilds was fun. The REP system in all cities was a bit too much, and little repetitive (mostly saved by needing only 75%) but competing guild REP was good new system.
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  17. #37 Zitieren
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    Zitat Zitat von The Ore Baron Beitrag anzeigen
    I remember when Risen was still in the promotional stage and all we had were some lousy artwork pictures of a gauntlet.

    Someone on WoG nicknamed the game as Celtic.

    If all else fails, PB could try to create a third RPB game, centered around Celtic culture in a fantasy world reminiscent of Gothic. And yes, I know Gothic had little to do with Gothic culture.

    Which begs the question: why was Gothic called Gothic in the first place?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_architecture
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  18. #38 Zitieren
    Warrior Avatar von The Ore Baron
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    Oh yes, that explains a lot
    After all, there was so much Gothic architecture in the Old Camp
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  19. #39 Zitieren
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    Gothic had a more Romanesque architecture. Gothic architecture evolved from it. But the problem is that both Romanesque and Gothic architecture styles originate from France...
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  20. #40 Zitieren
    Schwertmeister Avatar von warstrike
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    I don't think that the game had anything to do with the Gothic architecture
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