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  1. Beiträge anzeigen #21
    General Avatar von KGS
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    we experience everything not in exactly the same way but in exactly the same "medium" (space in time) which while having objective validity for our species and every phenomenon we observe cannot be linked as directly present in the things in themselves; while the 'matter' of our experience varies, its form is always the same

  2. Beiträge anzeigen #22
    Skinhead  Avatar von Hellbilly
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    I still don't see how this invalidates what already Plato was talking about. Also, from my understanding, one aspect of quantum physics is exactly to expand beyond the space-time continuum.

  3. Beiträge anzeigen #23
    General Avatar von KGS
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    I don't agree with Plato because to have true knowledge you need to have a definition with is accorded with an object whose image (again in its broadest possible sense, not just something you see) comes directly or indirectly in your mind through the senses (for example we know what the structure of the atom is indirectly through our senses because of the gold foil experiment)
    plato's pure ideas would be definitions without objects to anchor them to and thus non-knowledge

    i don't know how quantum physics deal with this problem, and I said I'd rather look into it before speaking about it, as I am interesting in its justification for being more than pure speculation (I am not saying it is pure speculation, but that such justification is necessary)

  4. Beiträge anzeigen #24
    Skinhead  Avatar von Hellbilly
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    This site says of relativity, quote: "The notion of spacetime in Special and General Relativity is obviously not derived from sense experience. One would also be hard-pressed to explain the making of Relativity merely in terms of derived and recombined sense impressions and associations. Relativity cannot be deduced from empirical judgements, but it is derived from mathematical propositions, or respectively from what Kant had coined "synthetic a priori judgements". " This page would appear to claim that quantum physics does indeed represent a sneak peek beyond the veil, so to speak.

    If I understood Plato's high-level idea correctly, he was saying that with enough data, a human mind can start to envision what the perfect "thing" is from imperfect examples, eg. the ability to analyze, dissect and collate seemingly conflicting manifestations. The general concept doesn't in my opinion limit itself to sensory experiences, even though Plato himself may not have expanded beyond them.
    Geändert von Hellbilly (18.03.2013 um 15:12 Uhr)

  5. Beiträge anzeigen #25
    Apprentice
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    Zitat Zitat von Hellbilly Beitrag anzeigen
    This site says of relativity, quote: "The notion of spacetime in Special and General Relativity is obviously not derived from sense experience. One would also be hard-pressed to explain the making of Relativity merely in terms of derived and recombined sense impressions and associations. Relativity cannot be deduced from empirical judgements, but it is derived from mathematical propositions, or respectively from what Kant had coined "synthetic a priori judgements". " This page would appear to claim that quantum physics does indeed represent a sneak peek beyond the veil, so to speak.

    If I understood Plato's high-level idea correctly, he was saying that with enough data, a human mind can start to envision what the perfect "thing" is from imperfect examples, eg. the ability to analyze, dissect and collate seemingly conflicting manifestations. The general concept doesn't in my opinion limit itself to sensory experiences, even though Plato himself may not have expanded beyond them.
    The main idea about Plato's Cave is that the closer a human mind is to perfection, the more clearly it perceives. If you want to harness Plato to support quantum physics, you could do so using even the first, say, rule regarding quantum physics: everything behaves like a wave and can be described as such.
    We can measure the length of a single photon's wave and determine its frequency, describe the substance it is or was in, we could even theorise more and measure how much a photon would weigh if it were a mass.

    Plato would focus here not on the precision of our measuring devices, thanks to whom we would be able to perfectly calculate said qualities of the photon, but the fact that we are able to measure them at all. The shadows in the cave can be seen with our own eyes only, sure, but one can look at the "perfect objects" only once they realise what they've looked at so far are just shadows. Using Buddhist rhetoric, it's all about the enlightenment itself, rather than using it for whatever reason.

    However, the problem with quantum physics, and theoretic physics in general, is that everything works fine, accordingly to proven rules, until it doesn't, because on different scales, different laws work differently - some mean so little, you could skip them to prove one point, some mean so much, you can't solve the entire equation without them, but they have yet to be stated, and so on, and so on.

    Current technology probably already allows us to measure a lot more than we already have, but our enlightenment hasn't yet reached the point where we could even think of something to be measured. And we go back to evolution of civilisation/logic/humankind.

    Who wants the bong now?

  6. Homepage besuchen Beiträge anzeigen #26
    Demigod Avatar von Bastardo
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    To summarize, whatever is, is, and whatever is not, is not. And gods are whatevers. Spreaded out over several long posts.

  7. Beiträge anzeigen #27
    Skinhead  Avatar von Hellbilly
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    In other news, what the fuck is up with that weather? All of winter we had pleasant temperatures of -5 to -10. But now when it's supposed to get warmer, we're having like -18 every god damned morning. WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME SPRING WAS CANCELLED?

  8. Homepage besuchen Beiträge anzeigen #28
    Demigod Avatar von Bastardo
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    Last weekend there was snow here in Serbia, and also Italy, that I know of. Global warming?

  9. Beiträge anzeigen #29
    Dragonslayer Avatar von Zeri0n
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    Zitat Zitat von Bastardo Beitrag anzeigen
    Last weekend there was snow here in Serbia, and also Italy, that I know of. Global warming?
    Cold air came from Western Europe so the temperature plummeted to -3 degrees Celsius.
    It should be fine today, + 18 if I recall it well

    this is amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgox...e_gdata_player

    @billy, thanks for keeping the cold weather only for you guys, we don't mind you being selfish greedy bastards, you may continue keeping that weather only for yourself <3

  10. Beiträge anzeigen #30
    Skinhead  Avatar von Hellbilly
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    Zitat Zitat von Bastardo Beitrag anzeigen
    Last weekend there was snow here in Serbia, and also Italy, that I know of. Global warming?
    I guess that's why they're talking "climate change" these days? Seriously though, the last three winters have been pretty exceptional... so if this is how it's gonna be from now on, I'm gonna join the bears in hibernation.

    Zitat Zitat von Zeri0n Beitrag anzeigen
    you may continue keeping that weather only for yourself <3
    At least it keeps the beer cold.

  11. Beiträge anzeigen #31
    General Avatar von KGS
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    yesterday it was freezing and it snowed all day
    today it was sunny and warm, a bit windy
    i liked today better

  12. Beiträge anzeigen #32
    Dragonslayer Avatar von Omid-
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    Same with the oscillating weather here too. Kind of weird to have snow one day and like 10-15 degrees next.

  13. Beiträge anzeigen #33
    Dragonslayer Avatar von Zeri0n
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    Mikeeeey Mikeeeeey, is that you?

    [Bild: 6829076_460s.jpg]

  14. Beiträge anzeigen #34
    Fighter
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    Yeah I saw that on 9gag also but the guy on the picture is not me, he's from Oregon and I'm from Croatia

    It was funny and awesome seeing my nickname on 9gag tho

  15. Beiträge anzeigen #35
    Dragonslayer Avatar von Zeri0n
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    Zitat Zitat von MikeLitoris Beitrag anzeigen
    Yeah I saw that on 9gag also but the guy on the picture is not me, he's from Oregon and I'm from Croatia

    It was funny and awesome seeing my nickname on 9gag tho
    I know it wasn't you, but I had to post it, the urge to do that was massive xD


    God damn it, sometimes I wanna punch Youtube developers in the face. Why the hell did they have to introduce that "guide" thingie located to the left from the video? I got used to clicking there so I could scroll down/up with my mouse and now every single time it redirects me from the song/video I am listening/viewing.... -.-
    Geändert von Zeri0n (19.03.2013 um 22:01 Uhr)

  16. Beiträge anzeigen #36
    Hero Avatar von Tratos
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    There was rice-sized hail in London today.

  17. Beiträge anzeigen #37
    General Avatar von KGS
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    if this is a german forum do people really like blind guardian over there

  18. Homepage besuchen Beiträge anzeigen #38
    Demigod Avatar von Bastardo
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    Being dependant = sucks. Bosses don't understand shit. You give them advice on how to avoid wasting weeks of man-hours, and all you get in return is a "nah, just do it the way I told you, I've got more experience than you after all." fucking bullshit. Bosses don't understand how to cut manhours... and that's their freaking job. Wish I completed school so I could pretend I know more than experienced people... *then* I could pretend I'm doing my job. Obsessive compulsiveness just puts me at odds with the people in charge.
    Please, kids. Just... finish school. School is an asshole. No papers, no party. Or do you want to be the person that keeps technology back by virtue of being cheaper than machines? Or a constantly paranoid criminal? Just go through the stupid process, I'm telling you. Give up a few awesome teenage years for a better life on the long run.
    Geändert von Bastardo (23.03.2013 um 23:34 Uhr)

  19. Beiträge anzeigen #39
    General Avatar von KGS
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    do you think this song is about a heroin overdose
    [Video]

  20. Beiträge anzeigen #40
    Fighter
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    MikeLitoris ist offline
    That song is terrible and annoying. Not even sure if the vocalist is a male or a female. Why would you even care?

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