[asddsa]

To be honest, that is one thing that I disliked about Gothic 2. 2 handlers are way slower but not that much more powerful than 1 handlers. Strongest 2 handed weapon (and axe, 200 dmg, but short range, so beter is dragon slicer 190 dmg) isn't that stronger than strongest 1 handed weapon (dragon slayer's 1 handler 160 dmg)....

Not so much slower. Two swings of a two-hander take as long as three swings of a one-hander. Maybe even slightly faster if you count in the overhead attack that's shorter in range but quicker to hit.
Besides, an image most two-hander users sooner or later encounter in the game is a pack of three or more orcs charging at them with their weapons drawn, getting smashed before any of them manages to strike, leaving the character completely unharmed. Even if such situation is possible for a one-hander user, it would take a lot longer, so I think it would be wiser to judge a weapon's speed not by its capability to perform deadly flurries, but to get the job done.

[Zeri0n]

Not so much slower. Two swings of a two-hander take as long as three swings of a one-hander. Maybe even slightly faster if you count in the overhead attack that's shorter in range but quicker to hit.
Besides, an image most two-hander users sooner or later encounter in the game is a pack of three or more orcs charging at them with their weapons drawn, getting smashed before any of them manages to strike, leaving the character completely unharmed. Even if such situation is possible for a one-hander user, it would take a lot longer, so I think it would be wiser to judge a weapon's speed not by its capability to perform deadly flurries, but to get the job done.

IMHO, 2 handlers look badass while 1 handlers do the job

[lordhoff]

IMHO, 2 handlers look badass while 1 handlers do the job

Plus, there's a 1.5x greater chance of a critical hit with one-handers.

RE: gritting teeth and bearing it: you can't really do both one and two hand and still have enough LPs left for things you need later. If you want the higher strike weapons, you have to choose two-handers early and stick with it (like you are doing).

[KGS]

Plus, there's a 1.5x greater chance of a critical hit with one-handers.

whaaat ?

[Bastardo]

For some reason everyone's always got their own little tale about the combat mechanics of Gothic.

[TudoracheMG]

That^
Maybe he's trying to say that you squeeze in more critical hits with one handers than two handers because you attack faster within a given time frame

[Zeri0n]

That^
Maybe he's trying to say that you squeeze in more critical hits with one handers than two handers because you attack faster within a given time frame

And that's exactly what he meant
Statistically he is right

[MikeLitoris]

IMO 2 handers are more powerful. I remember just slaughtering orcs with 2handed claw of Beliar while with 1 handed I had to be a bit more careful.

I still like 1 handers more but only because of speed and cool animations. Admittedly, I do think 2 handers are more powerful cause they got more power and more range. Only thing one handers got for them is speed.

[asddsa]

IMO 2 handers are more powerful. I remember just slaughtering orcs with 2handed claw of Beliar while with 1 handed I had to be a bit more careful.

I still like 1 handers more but only because of speed and cool animations. Admittedly, I do think 2 handers are more powerful cause they got more power and more range. Only thing one handers got for them is speed.

One-handers are much easier to get than two-handers - you need much fewer LP for them, as they require a lot less STR.
In NotR, it's such a huge difference, I think the low-end two-handers could actually use a boost to damage, because you need around 20-30 more STR to use a two-hander of the same level as your ready-to-use one-hander. And that's some serious gap on any level.

[MikeLitoris]

What are you talking about? IIRC a rusty sword(30 dmg/30str) and rusty axe(40 dmg/30 str) and 2hander actually gives more damage considering the strength needed. 2handeds need more strength but they also have more damage.

[asddsa]

What are you talking about? IIRC a rusty sword(30 dmg/30str) and rusty axe(40 dmg/30 str) and 2hander actually gives more damage considering the strength needed. 2handeds need more strength but they also have more damage.

I know they do deal more damage. I'm saying they could deal a little bit more, considering they're slower and require more STR to be ever used. They're better in high-end game, sure, but considering how many more Learning Points you need to put in your strength, they could be slightly better or require slightly less strength.
In G1, two-handers were your next step of evolution for melee weaponry after one-handers, as you needed to master them to even begin training two-handers. In G2 and NotR, the authors wanted them to be of similar power, because you can train them simultaneously if you wish, but all in all, one-handers are much better in the beginning, while two-handers are better by the end of the game. There's not much balance in such solution, is there?

[MikeLitoris]

Now that's not true. Two-handers become good as soon as you can wield Rod's 2 hander. It has very decent dmg and range for an early game weapon. Ofc at VERY START only one-hander is available but I think that actually indicates that 2 handers are too strong to have them at the very start so they have the advantage again :P

I mean, did you ever compare having a rod's sword/rough sword to some one-hander with similar strength requirements? Man, that damage and range difference.

[asddsa]

Now that's not true. Two-handers become good as soon as you can wield Rod's 2 hander. It has very decent dmg and range for an early game weapon. Ofc at VERY START only one-hander is available but I think that actually indicates that 2 handers are too strong to have them at the very start so they have the advantage again :P

I mean, did you ever compare having a rod's sword/rough sword to some one-hander with similar strength requirements? Man, that damage and range difference.

Don't compare the weapons solely by their requirements, do so also by their "grade"

Spoiler:(zum lesen bitte Text markieren)

- the best one-handed sword, Ore Dragon Slayer (160 dmg, 140 STR req.), compared to the best two-hander of the same grade - by that I mean you get it at exactly the same point of the game - Large Ore Dragon Slayer (180 dmg, 160 STR req.), or one-handed Wrath of Innos (140 dmg, 100 STR req.) and two-handed Holy Executioner (160 dmg, 120 STR req.).
Without tablets and potions, 20 STR means as much as 100 LPs for the Dragon Hunter and 80 LPs for the Paladin.

Of course, there's also the two-handed Dragon Slicer (190 dmg, 160 STR req.) that you can get even in Chapter 1, but to use it at its best, you need... exactly 691 Learning Points, no tablets, amulets, potions, boni to weapon mastery, without the "29+5" method. For the aforementioned Ore Dragon Slayer, you need 581 Learning points, on the same conditions. Right now, the difference between them is 110 points, which is precisely 11 levels, and the gap is going to be bigger with all those boosters - although easier to fill, as your level required will be much lower - because strength's cost increases by one every 30 points.

Knowing that, it would be simply courteous to slightly - I mean it, by like 5-10% tops - increase the damage of two-handers OR give them a natural boost to critical chance (which would be more realistic, too). Then again, I'm saying this 10 years after the game had its premiere, so who really cares, but still, such difference in damages would be more adequate in Gothic 1 or 3, but not where you have to grind your ass off for a single point of STR.

[lordhoff]

That^
Maybe he's trying to say that you squeeze in more critical hits with one handers than two handers because you attack faster within a given time frame

Somebody's is using their grey matter! Every hit is a chance. Three swings to two means three chances to every two, ie, 1.5x greater chance.

EDIT: should have read them all before replying. Sorry for the redundancy.

[TudoracheMG]

But that doesn't increase or decrease the chances of landing a critical hit with either of the two styles. If you land 10 hits with a one-handed weapon or a two-handed weapon, and your skill with them is, let's say, 50%, you will have the same chance to score critical hits. Sure, you land more critical hits with one-handers because you deal less damage, so the enemy will take more hits to die, but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll be killing him more quickly

[Zeri0n]

But that doesn't increase or decrease the chances of landing a critical hit with either of the two styles. If you land 10 hits with a one-handed weapon or a two-handed weapon, and your skill with them is, let's say, 50%, you will have the same chance to score critical hits. Sure, you land more critical hits with one-handers because you deal less damage, so the enemy will take more hits to die, but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll be killing him more quickly

You are right and at the same time you are wrong. Look at it this way: How many critical strikes per minute will you get by 1-handed and 2-handed sword? If you look at it that way you get a conclusion that 1 handlers actually give you bigger chance to land a crit, if you measure it in time of course. So at the same time you and I are right but also wrong

[TudoracheMG]

But that would measure the number of critical hits you do per minute, not the chance that the sword will land a critical hit :P it's the same as damage per second versus actual weapon damage

[Zeri0n]

But that would measure the number of critical hits you do per minute, not the chance that the sword will land a critical hit :P it's the same as damage per second versus actual weapon damage

Ha! as you have said, it's like dps vs actual weapon dmg. Whenever you go raiding, they ask about your dps not your actual weapon dmg

[asddsa]

You are right and at the same time you are wrong. Look at it this way: How many critical strikes per minute will you get by 1-handed and 2-handed sword? If you look at it that way you get a conclusion that 1 handlers actually give you bigger chance to land a crit, if you measure it in time of course. So at the same time you and I are right but also wrong

Ha! as you have said, it's like dps vs actual weapon dmg. Whenever you go raiding, they ask about your dps not your actual weapon dmg

This would be true if your target had undefined HP or its amount were massive - exactly like in a boss raid. Except for the dragons, in end-game Gothic, with a last tire two-handed weapon and maxed stats, you have two groups of targets - those who die from one hit and those who get killed by the third strike at the most. With a one-hander, it's either two-hit or run around like sissy girl, trying to chip in some damage without getting killed.
So, DPS for one-handers is then, say, 218936129836 per second, in a flurry of 10^12 blows, while two-handers get a mob with 500 hp for 501 damage in 1/10th of a second.

[MikeLitoris]

Don't compare the weapons solely by their requirements, do so also by their "grade"

Spoiler:(zum lesen bitte Text markieren)

- the best one-handed sword, Ore Dragon Slayer (160 dmg, 140 STR req.), compared to the best two-hander of the same grade - by that I mean you get it at exactly the same point of the game - Large Ore Dragon Slayer (180 dmg, 160 STR req.), or one-handed Wrath of Innos (140 dmg, 100 STR req.) and two-handed Holy Executioner (160 dmg, 120 STR req.).
Without tablets and potions, 20 STR means as much as 100 LPs for the Dragon Hunter and 80 LPs for the Paladin.

Of course, there's also the two-handed Dragon Slicer (190 dmg, 160 STR req.) that you can get even in Chapter 1, but to use it at its best, you need... exactly 691 Learning Points, no tablets, amulets, potions, boni to weapon mastery, without the "29+5" method. For the aforementioned Ore Dragon Slayer, you need 581 Learning points, on the same conditions. Right now, the difference between them is 110 points, which is precisely 11 levels, and the gap is going to be bigger with all those boosters - although easier to fill, as your level required will be much lower - because strength's cost increases by one every 30 points.

Knowing that, it would be simply courteous to slightly - I mean it, by like 5-10% tops - increase the damage of two-handers OR give them a natural boost to critical chance (which would be more realistic, too). Then again, I'm saying this 10 years after the game had its premiere, so who really cares, but still, such difference in damages would be more adequate in Gothic 1 or 3, but not where you have to grind your ass off for a single point of STR.

Whenever I start using tablets/potions/other str power ups I ALWAYS go ABOVE 180. Once went above 200. So it doesn't matter if the requirement is 140, 160 or 180 if you manage it correctly. If you use up all str potions, tablets etc and still don't have 160 str then YOU are doing something wrong. Start using them when you reach 124 str.

Better comparation is IMO heavy ore battle blade and ore dragon slayer. Both have 160dmg and 140 requirement. Difference? Heavy ore battle blade has better range while ore dragon slayer has better speed.

And THEN comes large or dragon slayer(180/160) which is a lot stronger than both. It has better range than heavy ore battle blade and better damage AND range than ore dragon slayer. So WHAT if it requires 20 str more? I WISH there was a one hander that strong. Cause, as I said, if you manage strength correctly you should have MORE than enough str to wear it and str requirement becomes completely irrelevant.