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  1. Beiträge anzeigen #1
    Lehrling
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    TrangleC ist offline

    Characters being hostile without even talking first

    My problem is that characters attack me without even talking to me first.
    I'm not talking about characters who are supposed to do that, like Ivan for example, I'm getting attacked by characters who are supposed to give me quests.

    It all started with Grok, the leading shaman in Geldern.
    I did collect the neccessary 75 points to get admitted to his temple but when I try to talk to him or even get too close to him he tells me he has bad news and that every suspicious human in the village gets killed before attacking me.

    I did not do anything to provoke him. I hadn't even killed Gunok, the lazy orc yet. Basically I just fought in the arena, killed Ivan and his guys and did all the mine-related jobs for Nemrok.

    I was able to bring the Geldern-part of the game to a good end by avoiding Grok till it was time to free the village from the orcs.

    After I did that, I wanted to go to Silden and start doing quest there, but everybody immediately attacks me without giving me a chance to talk to them first. The first one I met was the hunter Bram on an remote farm outside the village and he started shooting at me as soon as he saw me.
    So do all the other characters in that area.

    I have no idea what is going on.

    Is this a bug? It would be a hell of a bug, ruining the whole game and a whole week of gaming so far.

  2. Beiträge anzeigen #2
    Knight Commander
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    Nisarg ist offline
    No, it isn't a bug by any stretch of imagination.

    What probably happened is that you liberated three orcish settlements (and yes, even their exacavtions are counted) and that's why the orcs are now hostile.
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  3. Homepage besuchen Beiträge anzeigen #3
    Deus Avatar von Lobedan
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    Lobedan ist offline
    You liberated some cities from the orcs, didn't you? There should was also a dialogue after the first liberation when you met the boss of the next orc town and the same after the second liberation. A dialogue that someone kills the orcs in other cities including a warning if that happens again. The reaction from Grok is the consequence after the third liberation. And the reactions in Silden after the fourth liberation.
    If you have an old savegame before the third liberation load this. Otherwise you can also continue playing without doing something for the orcs again because they will attack you everywhere.

  4. Beiträge anzeigen #4
    Veteran
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    Kraszu ist offline
    Just try to stick with it, the game will be harder but it is possible to play that way.

  5. Beiträge anzeigen #5
    Lehrling
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    TrangleC ist offline
    Thanks for the explanations and advise.

    I didn't know that (obviously).
    I thought those warnings about the other villages were hollow like when they tell you that you are wanted as a thief but fall for the "I don't know what you are talking about." excuse every time.

    Apparently the game is a bit willy nilly about what you have to take serious and what not. That is very disappointing.
    I do not have a save game from before the last battle with the orcs.

    It ads a certain trial and error element to the game play that reminds me of old 8 and 16 bit era jump and runs where you had to learn that you had to jump into an abyss at some point because there was a platform you couldn't see.
    Losing one or two of a dozen lives in such a game to find that out is not a big problem, but basically ruining many hours of game play and a whole in game career is something else.

    I guess you can continue playing like that, but I did not start playing a role playing adventure game like Gothic 3 to run around as death incarnate and wipe out everybody I meet like in a ego shooter game or a hack & slay like "Golden Axe".
    I want to interact with NPCs, do quests and free the land from the orcs with finesse and cunning. What for have I invested all those learning points and gold in becoming a master thief and a skilled hunter if all I'll be doing from now on is killing and looting orcs? *sigh*

    Also I find it strange and inconsistent that all the other orcs in Geldern treated me normally when their leader Grok was already triggered to attack me.
    And I find it outright stupid that that prevented me from starting the revolution with the fire mage Marius because he will only do so after you have had a normal chat with Grok.
    So not only did I have a huge fight on my hands I didn't want but also was I forced to do it without most of the help the game normally gives you in that fight.

    In general I'm annoyed by the game's habit to basically almost force you to complete quests before anybody gave them to you. For example you have to kill some animals or monsters outside a village for somebody and those animals or monsters are positioned in a way that you are almost guaranteed to run into them before you have reached the village and met the guy who wants you to kill them. Or you will run into them while being on a quest for somebody in the neighboring village and will perhaps be given the quest hours after completing it.
    One should think that the guys who made this game would have learned to avoid such mistakes or at least don't do them all the time at some point after the first two games.

    Have they changed/improved that in Gothic 4 and the two Risen games?


    Perhaps my mistake (besides freeing too many villages without knowing or expecting the consequences) was that I didn't visit the villages in an optimal order, I don't know.
    I thought I had done so in a logical way that made sense, plot-wise, but maybe I'm wrong, because now when I look at the walkthrough here on the site, it lists them in a different order.
    My path was as follows:
    01.) Reddock
    02.) Ardera's surroundings (the hunter Chris and the guy in the light tower behind Ardera)
    03.) Kap Dun
    04.) Montera
    05.) Okara
    06.) Gotha
    07.) Vengard
    08.) Faring (but only till I got permission to enter the outer caste and the pass to Nordmar, then I decided to finish the rest of Myrtana before entering Nordmar and I wouldn't get into the inner castle before winning in the big arena in the south anyways)
    09.) Trelis
    10.) Nemora
    11.) Geldern
    12.) then I wanted to do Silden before first going south and back north

    Geographically that might look like a strange succession, but I basically always followed clues the NPCs gave me. For example I went to Gotha because people in Okara talked about it and I went to Trelis because I thought that is where the arena is that I have to become champion of before being allowed into the inner castle of Faring, which must have been wrong, but I could swear somebody in Faring told me to go to Trelis or I thought I had to do Trelis first before going to Varant because Trelis is the gate to the south, or something like that. I'm not sure anymore.

    The reason why I'm blabbering on about this is that apparently I shouldn't have taken those hints the NPCs gave me about other locations serious instead of taking other, seemingly insignificant hints about not freeing too many villages from the orcs serious. But how was I supposed to know that?


    Another mistake was that I thought it is best to finish all the quests (except the contradictory ones, of course) in one location before moving on to the next.
    When I played the game the first time, back in 2006 or whenever it came out, I was all over the place and ran around with tons of unfinished quests till I totally lost track.
    This time I wanted to do it right, focused and orderly and now I see that was a mistake as well.
    Quite annoying.


    What I meant with my comparison with old jump and runs is that Gothic 3 is not the kind of game you just start over again after finding out that you unwittingly fucked it up half way through.
    At the moment I rather feel like looking for Gothic 4 or Risen 1 in the bargain bin than starting over Gothic 3 the third time.
    I was so happy about every little success and every acquired skill but the thought of doing it all over makes it feel like a tedious chore. The thought alone of having to hunt down those 5 shy deer again makes me sick. *urrrgh*


    I have tried the "spawn sh" cheat and asked the cheat guy to polish up my reputation with the orcs, but that doesn't help.

    The only good thing is that I haven't even started anything in Varant yet.

    I'm really angry when thinking of all the skills and XP I can't get from all those orc and orc friendly NPCs anymore even though I'm confident that I can beat them as it is and especially after coming back from Varant.
    Geändert von TrangleC (09.01.2012 um 13:14 Uhr)

  6. Beiträge anzeigen #6
    Veteran
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    Kraszu ist offline
    Zitat Zitat von TrangleC Beitrag anzeigen
    Thanks for the explanations and advise.

    I didn't know that (obviously).
    I thought those warnings about the other villages were hollow like when they tell you that you are wanted as a thief but fall for the "I don't know what you are talking about." excuse every time.
    lol they don't either, if you will steal to much the guard will attack you at some point. At least that is how it works with CP 1.74.

    Zitat Zitat von TrangleC Beitrag anzeigen
    I guess you can continue playing like that, but I did not start playing a role playing adventure game like Gothic 3 to run around as death incarnate and wipe out everybody I meet like in a ego shooter game or a hack & slay like "Golden Axe".
    I want to interact with NPCs, do quests and free the land from the orcs with finesse and cunning. What for have I invested all those learning points and gold in becoming a master thief and a skilled hunter if all I'll be doing from now on is killing and looting orcs? *sigh*
    Don't worry you can do quest in Rebel camps, in clans at north, and in Varant with Assassins (I don't think that they are hostile but I was waiting with liberation's till later), and Nomads.

    Zitat Zitat von TrangleC Beitrag anzeigen
    In general I'm annoyed by the game's habit to basically almost force you to complete quests before anybody gave them to you. For example you have to kill some animals or monsters outside a village for somebody and those animals or monsters are positioned in a way that you are almost guaranteed to run into them before you have reached the village and met the guy who wants you to kill them. Or you will run into them while being on a quest for somebody in the neighboring village and will perhaps be given the quest hours after completing it.
    One should think that the guys who made this game would have learned to avoid such mistakes or at least don't do them all the time at some point after the first two games.
    Hmm that didn't had happened to me often, there are various ways to go to one place. Not sure how you would want to fix it without making the game constrained, or have the quest related enemy/object magically appear when you had gotten the quest. I usually tend to go to settlements first so maybe that makes the difference.

    Zitat Zitat von TrangleC Beitrag anzeigen
    Have they changed/improved that in Gothic 4 and the two Risen games?
    Gothic 4 is completely linear with arbitrary barriers so in that sense yes. Risen is the same as GI,GII, G3 you can kill quest enemy before getting a quest.


    Zitat Zitat von TrangleC Beitrag anzeigen
    Perhaps my mistake (besides freeing too many villages without knowing or expecting the consequences) was that I didn't visit the villages in an optimal order, I don't know.
    I thought I had done so in a logical way that made sense, plot-wise, but maybe I'm wrong, because now when I look at the walkthrough here on the site, it lists them in a different order.
    My path was as follows:
    01.) Reddock
    02.) Ardera's surroundings (the hunter Chris and the guy in the light tower behind Ardera)
    03.) Kap Dun
    04.) Montera
    05.) Okara
    06.) Gotha
    07.) Vengard
    08.) Faring (but only till I got permission to enter the outer caste and the pass to Nordmar, then I decided to finish the rest of Myrtana before entering Nordmar and I wouldn't get into the inner castle before winning in the big arena in the south anyways)
    09.) Trelis
    10.) Nemora
    11.) Geldern
    12.) then I wanted to do Silden before first going south and back north

    Geographically that might look like a strange succession, but I basically always followed clues the NPCs gave me. For example I went to Gotha because people in Okara talked about it and I went to Trelis because I thought that is where the arena is that I have to become champion of before being allowed into the inner castle of Faring, which must have been wrong, but I could swear somebody in Faring told me to go to Trelis or I thought I had to do Trelis first before going to Varant because Trelis is the gate to the south, or something like that. I'm not sure anymore.
    What the hell I am pretty sure that you had got confused. Faring has a gate to the North, but that isn't the only way there either. To fight in Faring area you first need to become a champion in some city in Varant. Anyway to see what is in north, and what is at south I would advice using map :P.

    Zitat Zitat von TrangleC Beitrag anzeigen
    The reason why I'm blabbering on about this is that apparently I shouldn't have taken those hints the NPCs gave me about other locations serious instead of taking other, seemingly insignificant hints about not freeing too many villages from the orcs serious. But how was I supposed to know that?
    Well there is a problem with metagaming especially when the game is more complex, and open true that. I don't think that this is necessary bad you still have plenty of quest that you can do, your game isn't broken.

    Zitat Zitat von TrangleC Beitrag anzeigen
    Another mistake was that I thought it is best to finish all the quests (except the contradictory ones, of course) in one location before moving on to the next.
    When I played the game the first time, back in 2006 or whenever it came out, I was all over the place and ran around with tons of unfinished quests till I totally lost track.
    This time I wanted to do it right, focused and orderly and now I see that was a mistake as well.
    Quite annoying.
    Hmm I had planned to do all quest except freeing the city quests it did seem like a straight forward plan when I had played it. I am also playing with alternative balancing, and alternative AI on hard and freeing the cities was genuinely hard for me (I did save, and tried it just for the sake of it) so I wanted to get stronger first.


    Zitat Zitat von TrangleC Beitrag anzeigen
    What I meant with my comparison with old jump and runs is that Gothic 3 is not the kind of game you just start over again after finding out that you unwittingly fucked it up half way through.
    Your game isn't broken. I would play from that point on just to see how much had changed in Varant. In North Orcs are aggressive to you no matter what.

    Zitat Zitat von TrangleC Beitrag anzeigen
    At the moment I rather feel like looking for Gothic 4 or Risen 1 in the bargain bin than starting over Gothic 3 the third time.
    I was so happy about every little success and every acquired skill but the thought of doing it all over makes it feel like a tedious chore. The thought alone of having to hunt down those 5 shy deer again makes me sick. *urrrgh*
    The game isn't broken, that is one of the predicted way to play it. The game is designed in a way that you can always finish it, you can just make it harder or easier to finish, and have a bit different experience.

    Zitat Zitat von TrangleC Beitrag anzeigen
    I'm really angry when thinking of all the skills and XP I can't get from all those orc and orc friendly NPCs anymore even though I'm confident that I can beat them as it is and especially after coming back from Varant.
    Maybe go find Xardas now instead.

  7. Beiträge anzeigen #7
    Lehrling
    Registriert seit
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    TrangleC ist offline
    Thank you for the detailed answer.

    In the meantime I have found a technical (cheating) solution for the problem.
    I hadn't noticed it earlier although I did search for help before opening this thread.
    Here the member grok12 describes how to use the edit character function to appease Grok and other hostile orc leaders:
    http://forum.worldofplayers.de/forum...29#post6672329

    I will try that.

    I understand now that the game isn't broken and that it is a regular way for things to play out, but I just don't want to have to indiscriminately murder my way through the two last orc dominated villages on the map. I don't want to miss out on so many quests and conversations and I don't want to start over again.

    About the Faring - Trelis - thing:
    I think you misunderstood me. I did not confuse south with north.
    I just wasn't sure anymore which of two possible considerations made me decide to leave Faring to go to Trelis next.
    First I was sure somebody in Faring told me that I had to go to Trelis in order to win arena fights and get enough rep to be allowed into the inner castle of Faring, which either was an simple false memory on my part or perhaps that NPC mentioned Trelis and I misunderstood it to be the location of the big arena.
    Or I was aware that the big arena is not in Trelis but somewhere in the south and I decided to go to Trelis because of its geographical position and its role as gate to Varant.
    I'm not sure anymore, but I do remember that after doing (almost) all of the quests in Trelis/Nemora and freeing Trelis I decided to first go to visit the two remaining locations in Myrtara, Geldern and Silden before visiting the new land in the south.

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