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    Halbgott Avatar von Sowilo
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    Statement of Piranha Bytes

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    First, we don't chose the "we want fast money and kid the fans"-way.
    That G3 wasn't finished at the release was crap. That guys complain about that is legitimate. We knew that there will not be no bugs but we underrated the amount of problems we were confronted working at the goldmaster.
    We thought that we will deliever a finished game with a few bugs at the announced release and wanted to remove them with one patch.

    Sadly we are working on a 2nd patch now but although we will fix the most known bugs many fans will be disappointed.

    We tried to get a big target group for Gothic III. So we made a few changes which fans see as worsening:
    - No membership -> free gameplay
    - Great, free, non-linear world, which towns you can "play" in every order instead of returning to the visited town with pemanently new quests.
    - Quest are "given by the world" and not by NPC's.
    - New combat system instead of only new animations (more details later).
    - AI-reaction at town level instead of NPC-level (like murdering, theft)

    This changes maybe would had been accepted by the community if there - beside the technical problems (which we have mostly fixed now) - were not 2 big mistakes:

    1. Tuning (NPC, items, combat)
    2. Bad presentation of important chars.

    The tuning will be fixed with the 2nd patch. For example there was no way to use the crossbow advantageous. But to patch the combat system we will need more time.

    The story is not more or less than "There are dragons, find their master! (Gothic 2). The problem in Gothic 3 is the density. We chosed a lower one but but give important chars less lines to compensate that (this sentance makes imho no sense in German ). To solve this problem we had not enough time at the ending.

    In the future we will not try again to overstrain us with a big world like this.

    That it's, I will answer further questions now.

    Zitat Zitat von premus2
    There's more from PB in the german thread "Antworten der Piranhas". Could you translate it all please?
    Ok, but not word by word - I habe not enought time:

    1) Why you can't dive?

    There were more importent things we are working on so that it was at the ending of the feature list. Than we thought abaout how usefull dive would be and how many time we would need to add it.

    pro:
    - It was in G1/G2 and give you the feeling of freedom.

    con:
    - It was never really added. So you can't pick up items.
    - We didn't thought about underwater quests.
    - We would had to create a whole under water world.
    - We would had to create a new movment which would be very difficult particulary because of the physik engine we use.

    2) Why is there no climbing anymore?

    There are several reasons. We didn't liked that the hero can climb at each thing (for example Innos statue) and you can't enter locations which the AI can't.

    So we wanted two add two different ways of "climbing". First an automatic jump at some placed and second a way to move with your back at a wall. First wasn't possible because of we would had to flag every stone and the 2nd rask would be oversized for our one animator.

    Additional we would had getting troubles with the animation system.

    3) Did you used a LOD system?

    (In short) Sure, where it was usefull.

    4) Is there a documentation of supported features (engine)?

    (in Short) No, but it would be interesting because of

    a) there are a few things which make the engine "unique":
    - seamingless world feature
    - All meshes are "arbitrary complex". That means we use meshes with any complexity instead of "heightfields" or "convexe meshsoups".

    b) it support many features which we didn't use like:
    - Physik: ropes, chains, fluids, classic rigidbodies (rolling barrels, detroyable objects)
    - Rendering: Ultra High Detail meshes with LOD
    - Materialsystem: tons of shader combinations
    - Eventsystems, Mover,
    - etc..

    I hope we will add a list to the mod-kit.

    Btw the genome Engine consists of 1.5 Mio lines code written by 3-6 guys in 3 1/2 years.

    5) Will there be no shut downs anymore?

    - (short) I guss yes. We fixed all what we can.
    - We still try optimize the engine.
    - A patch will support the Agea PhysiX card.

    6) Do you look at the bugtracker?

    - Yes. Respect to the creators.

    7) Is is right that you needed 4 GB Ram during the development.

    (short) No, we don't have PC which supported 4 GB so it was impossible.

    8) Why the decision to work with the gamebryo engine?

    At the beginning of the development it looked good because of the good documentation and modular structure. But later wo noticed that it is difficult to add things like seamingless worl, arbitrary meshes and our physik so that we decieded to make an own engine. And it is usefull to own an own engine.

    by Eshme:

    Q. "Was there a deficiency of Money or Time ,to complete more Rendervideos?"

    A. We have very early agreed to make the Rendervideos ourselves. That was more of a Creative Decision than a money one, because we wanted to exercise more Control over them.
    In the End it was missing Time to complete more of them, since only at the end of Production we started to produce them. (Because the Material then finished)

    Q. "Why do Womens play no Role?"

    That was discussed in my Thread at
    http://forum.worldofplayers.de/forum...d.php?t=153707
    and i have tried to explain it thorougly, here an excerpt:

    The Answer is probably as banal as it is simple, and its embarrasing to post. We simply had no time to make them game-relevant.
    We completed 6 Models with textures. But there was technical Problems, like the design of the Hairs or Clothes, that we havent been able to complete satisfactory in time. And that means the Models have arrived at the Story Guys very late (Who placed the Characters)
    Because of that, the Voice recording had been done mostly. (many Areas had a Time limit the text had to be finished, to be done in time)
    And the Ladies stood speechless, and what would that be saying about the Game in the end?
    As we could finally put them into the World, we barely had Speechsamples that contained Quest Information, since the Guys in the Storydepartment had been forced to work around that Problem when we werent finished.

    I bow to all female Gothic Fans. We havent forget you or are a Band of female hating Gamedesigners.
    In fact its the Opposite, we would have liked more Womans in the Game, but it wouldnt be true this time. Gothic 3 has been a tricky technical Production (not that anybody has missed that)

    Q. "Do Fullbody Armors always have to be a Part of Gothic?"

    In the Moment yes, since that is the System we build the Animations on ,as well as the "Head and Texture Switches".
    But there should be more possible with that System in the future.

    Q. "What happened with the Tail of the Avatar

    As you may have noticed, none of the Models has real long Hair.
    It has caused Problems with Transitions (Transparencies?) and looked bad by trying to Animate it with Bones. And as the "FRAGEN ZUM ARTBUCH" Thread explains, we're missing it (the hairs) as well.
    I cant say yet, if we implement them in the Future.

    Q. "Why are most of the Characters so identical, or sloppy designed?" (same Haircuts, Body characteristics are often the same)
    Q. "Why do some Humans have little heads"
    Q. "Who has so much deformed the Heads of the old Friends?"

    That is also explained in the "FRAGEN ZUM ARTBUCH" Tread.
    I save you from copy and paste explanations, and want to tell those who want to know to read that Thread (its not that long and hopefully answers all of your Questions)

    Q. "Why are in some Areas so few Animals, and in some bare Areas (Nordmar) are full of Creature hordes?"

    The Phase in which the World has been filled with monsters has been very hectic, and sadly only been able to do near the end of the Project. At first the Middlelands has been filled with Monsters, and then the other 2 at the same Time.
    The Goal was to make Nordmar the hardest to play Territory. Because with our gameplay you can run past most Monster, we compensated with that much more Monsters. Soso, the result was a bit irritating, and we're tuning that abit right now.
    On the other Hand are the mostly empty Areas. The Process of adding Monsters is basically to systematically fly over the World and place Monsters both logically and interestingly. If possibly one tries to put them also tactically or optically interesting, depending on the Landscape.
    With that it still happened that one simply missed one Place. Those arent even recognized in the Testing phase, since the Testers know where the Story is played at. And theyre mostly where the Story is at.
    But there is the Fact, that sometimes it is a desired Effect, as in the Desert, where there is nothing at all in huge distances. And that has been really well done in my Opinion, and helps the Atmosphere.

    Q. "Why are the old Temples so monotonous, and very small inside..compared to their impressive size.

    As the Temples have been on Schedule some months back, ive made the decision to design the inners of a Temple so linear and small as possible. To build Temples always is fun for us, and in "Night of the Raven" we really could exercise.
    The Halls have been good modelled and textured, but they took alot of working hours.
    The Temples in Gothic3 arent places ,the Player should be at for long. The Priority lays in the Landscape, the Towns which there are plenty.
    So what to do? Make the Lands of Myrtana sparse, but spend 4 weeks in Temples the player quickly forgets?
    Or to spend more time in the Landscape ,the player is at 90% of the time?
    Ive decided for the latter, and made the Temples as they are now. Yes i know it could have been more beautifully, but we have created 3 radically different Landscapes with their Towns, which set a new standard in our Genre.
    So our work was a matter of priorities.

    Q. "Why is there so few Diversion in the World? Where are the Dungeons or the many secret Places?

    Indeed there are just a limited amount of that in Gothic3. That is sad for sure, but we still tried to put in some Highlights here and there.
    In Myrtana for example are 2-3 bigger caves and ca. 30 smaller ones ,who all have gotten an individual Object (Only counting the middlelands). Then theres the passes to Nordmar, the Ruins in the Desert, the Library and the Ore-melter in Nordmar. In the End we had to decide, which to put more Value in.

    Would one ,for example, take the Ruins away, to place more hidden ,invididual modelled places in the World?
    Or would one like to exchange the individual Houses in the Desert-towns (Ishtar, BeliarTemple, Mora Sul Fortress) against more nice dungeons, and make the Deserttowns less unique as the ones in Middlelands are?
    However you twist it, there are many Possibilities, to put your time into many beautiful locations. We just have decided on that big World, with many different and big Landmarks. Sadly for the Cost of detailled Levelwork, which means Minilocations and Dungeons.
    That does change in the Future thou, since we/myself arent confident of that principle. The middleway is always the best Way.
    If you dont have big and remarkable landmarks in the World, it doesnt have much profile. If its missing little interesting locations, the world is missing density instead.

    Q. "Are Objects ,like the Tunnel to Nordmar, or the Ending portal made very low quality ,or not made at all, because of time or money pressure?"

    Oh yes, the Tunnel.. The Tunnel should have been blocked with Rocks.. Its isnt actually the Pass to Nordmar.. The bridge in Faring should be leading towards a Lake, which hasnt been done.. the real Pass to Nordmar is the serpentines on the right side..
    I have told that a collegue, to shut the tunnel, but it was quickly forgotten. And i havent looked back again..and as i read a review in a english online mag, i realized the tunnel was still passable... and Gothic 3 was "Gold" at that time..
    Oh yes, a big World..many things that we wanted to do we forgot, because there was so many things to do at once.
    And also the ending Portal, which doesnt seemed that nice.. but i was confident ,that a portal to the Unknown Lands should look like as the Nature is defending itself to be passed by you. So, my idea was the rocks, that had to look as you could move them apart..
    Sadly the Portal didnt make it that impressive into the Game as i would have thought. And then it was to late to make big changes in the landscape.
    Geändert von Sowilo (26.10.2006 um 21:09 Uhr)

  2. Beiträge anzeigen #2
    Adventurer Avatar von tom bombadill
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    Good to know, sad to hear
    "for Beliar"

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    Adventurer Avatar von Haitham
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    And? In other words?
    To be honest, your German-English translation wasnt clear/obvious..

    I don't get it, PB staff are saying that Gothic3 isnt finished yet? Needs alot of fixes or they made it the way they think its the best and end of discussion? Incoming patches? Incoming fixes? For what?

    Thank you.

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    Apprentice Avatar von Crag Hack
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    Zitat Zitat von tom bombadill Beitrag anzeigen
    Good to know, sad to hear
    Agreed
    /Crag

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    premus2 ist offline
    There's more from PB in the german thread "Antworten der Piranhas". Could you translate it all please?

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    craziii ist offline
    I signed up so I could respond. wow, that is probably the first time I have seen a dev so honest with their fans, I mean WOW. any chance they can get a different publisher so they wouldn't be force to release unfinished games?

    I did not get bored with G3 after 10+ hours of play like I did with oblivion, which says a lot for G3. but the tuning of the game = polishing before release is REALLY bad, I mean any kind of saving takes 10-20 secs + smoothness of the game it self was bad. and why o why are quests so easily broken? even the main quest was easily broken.

    "AI-reaction at town level instead of NPC-level (like murdering, theft)" <<< this is a very bad idea. that basically takes away any kind of stealth play, or the other extreme, murderous play. isn't that chipping away at the dev's idea of free gameplay they mentioned? when I am not seen doing something, it shouldn't affect anything, case close.


    to the OP, plz continue translating, please!

  7. Beiträge anzeigen #7
    Apprentice
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    Balage ist offline
    Zitat Zitat von Sowilo Beitrag anzeigen
    In the future we will not try again to overstrain us with a big world like this.
    What does that mean?

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    General Avatar von Sakabato
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    you know what!
    they should go back too the basics, i mean, gothic1 and gothic2!!!
    those 2 were damnd awosome, i prefared gothic1, because the envoirment was amazing, and u start as totaly unknown fellow!
    in gothic2, it is not "gothic" anymore, only when we start seeing the seekers, and when we go back too the valey of mines, and the irdorath island!
    i dont have gothic3, but iv seen some movies with the orcs ruling the town, and some realy gothic things!
    in g1 the player can make loclpicking at the begining, that was cool, and he had acrobatics! gothic2 in some point is beter of course, the grafics were more worked out! and has some difrent\coolest things then g1|
    but in gothic3 a lot of things changed a lot, combat,lockpicking,no climbing,etc
    and that is bad, because instead of they trying too make something beter, no, they prefared too make something "easier"!
    i hope the patchs will change a lot in the game!

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    Ranger Avatar von bat_boro
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    I think it means that they won't be doing so big games in terms of gameworld size ...

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    Ranger Avatar von bat_boro
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    Zitat Zitat von bat_boro Beitrag anzeigen
    I think it means that they won't be doing so big games in terms of gameworld size ...
    Eagle, I think they didn't try to make something easier, they just tried to make something different, but still Gothic.

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    Apprentice Avatar von mrrip
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    Quests are given by the world not by npc ?!?

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    General Avatar von Sakabato
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    Zitat Zitat von bat_boro Beitrag anzeigen
    Eagle, I think they didn't try to make something easier, they just tried to make something different, but still Gothic.
    the new combat was easier too make!
    the "no climbing", its like in oblivion, the mountains dont have great textures, i mean, places too climb, u just run a mountain!
    and the lockpicking, u just go too a chest, and if u have enouth dex u open it! u dont have that "lockpicking game" anymore!

  13. Beiträge anzeigen #13
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    craziii ist offline
    to mrrip:

    I think what he meant by that is when you clear a mine or kill a group of monsters that is part of a quest, the quest is automatically finish for you even though you didn't get the quest yet. I like that feature, so I don't miss out on the rep since it is very important in gothic 3.

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    Ranger
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    Swarms ist offline
    I always hated lockpicking games, no more loading games by opening chests!
    Suits me well!

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    Apprentice Avatar von Tj Deck
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    What about technical problems like Save crashes & Memory problems [Smart Heap Save-bug. (SmartHeap Libary: Out of Memory)] ?? The game could be fantastic, but where is fun when U can't play and your game crashes during playing??

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    General Avatar von Sakabato
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    Zitat Zitat von Swarms Beitrag anzeigen
    I always hated lockpicking games, no more loading games by opening chests!
    Suits me well!
    oh, came on!
    only noobs dislike the lockpicking games, whats cool in going too a chest, and then say only if u can or cant open it! thats boring, doesnt give any chalenge! i loved opening the chest like that, specialy the finger's chest, in the thiefs guild! when i open it, i feel like a realy lockpicking master! not just some1 who has 50 or 60 of dex, and just go too a chest and just open it or not!
    oh and btw, in gothic3 there is no need for lockpicks right?
    cause i cant see any use for those in gothic3!

  17. #17
    BlasphemousInfidel
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    PB's statement is really sad, especially that from what I've heard it's completly true. They have admitted their defeat and understood that they have created a world that they can't control cause it's too big for them. Regarding to this statement:
    In the future we will not try again to overstrain us with a big world like this.
    it was their last attempt to craete such a huge world. I haven't played Gothic 3 yet (hope to get it by the end of the week), but from what I've read, I'm getting two opposite images of it. Some say that PB's couldn't create any better piece of art, others, that the game is one big dissapointment. I am starting to believe in the second version, especially after I've read the PB's statement, but I believe that all of the bugs can and will be fixed, and I don't really care whether it's gonna take them 4 weeks or 4 months to do it. We have pushed them hard enough during the creation of Gothic 3, and now we can see the results of that. I will be playing G3 no matter how many bugs it's gonna have, and in the meantime i will be patiently waiting for any patches. I would also like to express, that I fully support the PB studios, and hope, that they will continue their great job.

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    Apprentice
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    Balage ist offline
    In G2 you could also enable "scrambling" the combinations through the ini file, so to eliminate the save-load game (new combination at each load). Of course, only those enabled it, who didn't want their subconscious to force them to load after a chest broke their lockpick

    As for the statement: I'm happy to read that they admitted the mistakes, and I understand, that controlling a world as huge as this is really-really hard. I'm positive the patch will be good, and it will settle all the arguing.
    Geändert von Balage (25.10.2006 um 22:22 Uhr)

  19. Beiträge anzeigen #19
    Neuling
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    The game itself is great. Amazing to be honest. It's just buggy and the combat system is a bit poor, not hugely bad, but the stun locking is too easy and hard when the enemies do it. But both of those issues are going to be fixed, so it's not going to be a problem. Well, I have trouble keeping myself away from the game until the patch arrives, although I feel like hitting my screen when the game starts to run like a snail. :P

    So do buy the game. I do think that 99% really love the game aside from the bugs and combat. Little things like climbing shouldn't really matter. Lockpicking would have been a cool addition too, but it's not something that makes or breaks a game.

    I really hope that they will continue creating huge gameworlds. They are one of the reasons what makes these CRPG's so great. Small gameworlds, even if they are a bit more detailed are simply too small. They're not as much fun.

    I have been a fan of the Elder Scrolls games since Daggerfall, which I absolutely loved. But Oblivion, albeit being great at start, it was just too boring, too simple. And the world, it was just a one huge hole. Gothic 3's world is amazing, with really cool landscape details and it just feels realistic.

    Sorry for the weird structure of my post, but I wrote what came in my mind spontaniously.

  20. Beiträge anzeigen #20
    General Avatar von Sakabato
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    Zitat Zitat von SigNuM Beitrag anzeigen
    So do buy the game. I do think that 99% really love the game aside from the bugs and combat. Little things like climbing shouldn't really matter. Lockpicking would have been a cool addition too, but it's not something that makes or breaks a game.
    u know, all those small details counts, if u go too a game, and see something that caught ur atencion, u say:"hehehe, realy cool thing" instead of just seeing the game like all others(games)!
    it is all those litle details, that make a game something fantastic and realistic!
    in oblivion u cant clim, cause the mountains doesnt have mutch details, in gothic1 and 2, u have climbing, u can climb almost evri spot, houses,mountains,evrithing!!! in gothic3 u just run throught the mountains, like in oblivion! and the lockpicking was something great, that gives a lot of enterteinement too those guys who like too be thiefs!(like me)

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