Risen: Best mage in any (not just PB) game

[necromancerZ]

The mages in PB games have always been unique, but in Risen PB just nailed it. I love that the spells got smarter and there's actually use for them. And it's great that you can actually build a Paladin, because there are spells that affect the melee combat or help them, like the berserker rune. You can actually fight like an offensive or defensive paladin. And then the runes that enable you to interact with the environment. Also, I love the fact that the staff fighting forces you to use the amazing and explosive dodge feature, so the character actually feels and handles like a competent fighter instead of the stereotypical old man kind of mage who moves like a tard, or a crippled quasimodo like in the bioware games.
All in all, you can build pure mage, combat mage, any kind of mage in Risen and have an amazing time using it in combat. So PB games are not RPG only games anymore, they are amazing action games at the same time. Keep up this direction guys, I don't mind if you put more story in it for the old fans, that can never do any harm, but keep developing the action elements too they will win over more fans.

[Aetherian]

I'm playing Risen through as a mage this time and enjoying it, though I do wish at times there was a little more variety of spells on hand.

I've always been a big Risen fan, and after playing Bioware's "juggernaut" DA:O and some other rpg's out there then coming back to Risen, I've come to appreciate it even more. Now with the mod db with the rebalancing and texture enhancement mods, and especially the peasant, warrior armor and mage robe retextures to make it look more "Gothic" like, I'm...........home. Nothing beats a PB game in my book, their games just hit the spot for me.

[aqwerty]

Sorry for my noobity, but is the retexturing you're talking about official or fan made?

[Aetherian]

They're fan made ones, one for higher rez bricks and stones and the other for the low poly vegetation to look better.

[Talek]

My opinion would be a tad bit different than yours. My first playthrough on Risen was as a mage and I liked countless things about the way things were. The magic was astoundingly useful, except for open locks and inferno which were obtained far too late (I didnt use scrolls, only runes), the murder quest, the whole backstory of the convocation. Everything was fun.

BUT.

It was surely not the best experience I have had as a mage. I had much better times in Night of the Raven. It was not because of the gothic feel, the awesome armors or the way things were made. No. It was because of the spell variety. I like having a battle mage in any game and I would have a battle mage with relatively low mana and 130+ strength anyhow (notr). But I like when you have various damaging spells in addition to utility spells. G2 just had this variety of fun spells: ice lance, ice block, ice wave, beliar's rage, etc.

BUT.

As much as it was fun, I had even more fun to play through as a mage in Dungeon Siege 2. The spell progression and variety was amazing, coupled with the astounding powers you would obtain as a Nature Mage. Using summoned units to strike aether blasts which would deal inconceivable damage. Just the thought of it made my jaw drop. You could even evolve multiple magicians in the same party with a) nature magic b) combat magic c) crossover.

Loved it.

BUT.

As we are talking about mages in general and the question beats the boundaries of roleplaying games, I must say I had the most enjoyment in Heroes of Might and Magic series. Magic there was not only looking amazing, it decided the battles. It provided your units with awesome feats (such as +speed, dmg) and other tidbits. All the versions (from I to V) had their own unique flavour to their magic and they were more than amazing. I had my best playthrough with magic-based heroes there :)

[foobar]

I think to be somewhat content with the mages in Risen is the best I can say about them.

First, there is the lack of spell variety which Talek already addressed. I expect a professional mage to be a little more versatile than just having three offensive spells (which are not even his alone but are completely shared with a group of non-mages).

Second, story and setting do not outline the mages clearly enough in my opinion. Basically, they're not much different than the order warriors. They live in the same place, follow the same rules, have the same offensive spells, are focussing on the same weapon types and share almost all quests (I am currently not sure if there is any mage-exclusive quest in the game at all). Even the clothing looks similar. And the NPC reactions are also identical. No one cares that I am a mage (who are supposed to be "the only ones who really care about the people"). Everyone treats me as just another Inquisition goon. The initiation ceremony is also not that different.

Comparison: In G1, mages also lived in the same place as the others. But the temple was clearly distinct from all other buildings with its mysterious rune carvings and drawings. And no one except mages was allowed to enter there. They kept to themselves even when living in the same camp. Everyone greeted me differently when I was a mage and before the joining, Corristo explained to me the burden of being priest as well as teacher and judge. He made it clear that I was about to join an elite group which has little in common with the rest of the camp.
In G2, fire mages where even more distinct. They had their own sanctuary (the cloister) in which they lived, their own quests and everyone treated them with respect. When I spoke with a novice in G2, he called me "master" and was respectful and even a little uncomfortable that I was around. In Risen, the only reply I got was a jovial "You'll be able to cut it".

For optimal replay value and a good roleplaying experience, any faction the player can join needs a unique and distinct political and philosophical orientation, a well-defined place within the society including reactions by others and a set of their own skills, items and quests. It must be different from the other factions in as many aspects as possible and be tightly interwoven with the story. At least I strongly believe so.


And third, I do have a problem with aiming for myself. I know that I'm in the minority with that opinion but I think the skills of the character should determine my effectiveness in combat - not the position of my mouse on the pad. I could also live with a "dual" approach as in G3 (aim for yourself or spend a little more mana and get an auto-homing projectile). And it contradicts my image of "mages" in general. If I have the power to conjure a ball of fire and hold it in my naked hand, I should also be able to direct it to where I want it to be. But again, that's my personal taste.

[necromancerZ]

professional mage to be a little more versatile than just having three offensive spells (which are not even his alone but are completely shared with a group of non-mages).

Hey, and what about inferno? And I would even count berserk as an offensive spell, but inferno is definitely one. Some additional ones like breath of death or cry of the dead would be fun though. And maybe a black mage guild.

[foobar]

You are right that Inferno is an offensive spell. But it shares a problem with "Open Lock": You only get it when it is already too late. Given that it is the only AoE spell in the entire game (which illustrates the lack of spells I mentioned) and you can only get it in the fourth chapter, it appears to be too weak.

Of course, "too weak"/"too late" is a balancing issue and such things are always a matter of taste. But basically, I tried the rune only a few times and its effectiveness was very limited.

EDIT: I'd count "Berserk" as a buff spell. Any spell that does not directly deal damage is not "offensive" in my book. And yes, more mage guilds also would be interesting. But as I said, it's more important that they are implemented properly. In Risen, we only have one kind of mage and even they are not really something special. The last thing I want are some guilds carelessly slapped onto game without any real meaning. If I can play as dreaded black mage, I also want to feel how people mistrust and fear me, how they whisper behind my back and spit on the street when I come along. Even if "black magic" is not really evil in the game's lore, the people should have prejudices against it and show that.

If PB can make more mage guilds properly, I'll be the last to complain. But if not, I'd prefer one well implemented mage guild over a set of empty guilds.

[Aetherian]

I just want to clarify that I don't think Risen is the greatest mage experience I've had in RPG gaming, it has been an enjoyable experience so far but I do wish there were a greater variety of spells as I noted before, and I agree about the balancing issues too. But I think overall Risen is much more fun than, say DAO, though it had probably more awesome story moments than Risen does.

As for my best mage experience, I'd have to say it was in the old Baldur's Gate games, where you start out weak as a kitten casting only a couple of puny spells and then advancing in levels to be a real badass casting Time Stop and sequencing spells together in chains and really tearing shit up. Very rewarding and fun!

[Talek]

I agree with Foobar. However, even though I agree that aiming is somewhat unnecessary, I have a few comments about it:

a) The crosshairs that Piranha Bytes made are the best I have seen anywhere (kudos to them). They were even more lovely than the bow crosshair (which was much better in g3 as a V letter) and it was fun just to have the spells drawn to see them in front of me.

b) Instead of having a crosshair and aiming all the time, I would rather see your character progress with it over itme. At first you are weak and clumsy, hence you can miss and quite possibly need a crosshair. Later, you are a bit more skilled and you have a power attack which you can power up with more mana to hit the opponent in an angle (without a crosshair). Afterwards, you become strong and powerful, hence you no longer need to aim and the spell flies at the smallest hint of the mage's thought. This all could depend strictly on your level, level of your magic, magic circle or even the spell.

c) Another possible solution by which the spells are handled could be inherited from oblivion in the form of touch spells. I would not want them to appear in the game, but I would like such a concept of spells that can be cast when you approach the enemy or vice versa and do not require aiming. More or less, the power attack of Ghouls in Risen works as a primary example of this.

Different games require different concepts of magicians and spellcasting.

[RobinHood 13.]

I like aiming, but that doesn't mean you have to mean it solely depends on your aiming skills.
Aiming the spells in Risen is actually quite hard. They're slow moving, and shooting from a 3rd person perspective is way harder than first person.
Trying to hit a moving target with a fairly slow moving spell is difficult, unless they run straight at you.

I'm not sure but it appears fireballs have a very small area they hit with (like a bullet), while
they should have a fairly large one.
Introduce burst spells. Like lighting, or fire sent out from the mage. These rely less on accuracy.
Could also be several smaller missiles, arching out like a DNA-string, giving a larger hit area.

So, just add more variety, and if you feel you're not good at the more fps part, then focus on the
other spells.

[Dez]

While I loved the stave fighting and cool spells like levitation and berserek, the mage class was way too similar to order warriors. They shared same teachings and lived in a same place. Almost all the sidequests were shared between all factions. Only difference was that a mage had an access to rune magic. But to counter this difference pbs allowed warriors to cast crystal magic and scroll magic which kinda watered down the experience.

In gothic 1 and gothic 2 joining a faction really meant something. It determined your path and status in the gameworld. It had a huge impact on storyline. To fully understand the plot behind gothics you had to play games through with each class.

In the gothic society magic was the rarest thing. Common people knew certainly that magic existed and had even seen it used at times, but it was a mysterious thing and out of their reach. It was a gift from gods. Hence the mages were often refered as priests instead of mages. They were caretakers of religious duties. They were seen as judges and mentors, healers and teachers. in a gothic society becoming a mage was a mystical ritual that only selected few outside monestary had any knowledge.

The nobility feared them, ordinary people respected them. Paladins bowed in their presence. The secret of magic was an inborn gift. You could try to learn it but very few had what it takes. Gods themselves chose their priests.

In risen we were just told that there is a holy flame and it's the source of their power. We are never explained the nature of magic or why spells are bound into runes. What exactly was mages role in the faranga island was left unexplored. Npcs didn't even notice that the guy he or she was talking to was wearing mage's robes. Talk about anticlimax or something.

As for other games..

Dragon age had a very smooth mage experience. I loved how you were seen as cursed instead of blessed. Someone already mentioned baldur's gate games and I have to agree with that statement. Its likely one of the best mage experiences. Morrowind is also worth of mentioning. You could really feel like a mage in TEs world. they had their own guild and you had so much choise skills wise. Oblivion isn't bad either in pure mage contex.