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What I ask myself when I played first time Gothic , was why there are not elves in Gothic game? From they lore we know they are great hunters and/or magicians . I answer myself that in G1 and 2 they are not integrated in the storyline but when I had seen the rangers and druids from G3 , they could be replace with elves ;and if u comment about Bogir and The Lion they are humans who like NH are accepted into they ranks for their great deeds :dnuhr:
An elven race just doesn't fit in Gothic. Its about the lore of the Gothic universe. The history of the Gothic universe is explained very well and there is no mention of elves. The two races that inhabit the Gothic universe are the humans and the orcs. Gothic isn't your stereotypical fantasy universe.
An elven race just doesn't fit in Gothic. Its about the lore of the Gothic universe. The history of the Gothic universe is explained very well and there is no mention of elves. The two races that inhabit the Gothic universe are the humans and the orcs. Gothic isn't your stereotypical fantasy universe.
there were also lizardmen
still I do not see the reason for adding elves. everything fits just fine without them
Hellbilly
29.01.2010, 04:45
Gothic isn't your stereotypical fantasy universe.
Orcs, goblins, dragons, ogres, magic, lizard men, golems, trolls, enchanted weapons, et cetera are all pretty much standard fantasy fodder. And make an appearance in the Gothic universe... ;)
Orcs, goblins, dragons, ogres, magic, lizard men, golems, trolls, enchanted weapons, et cetera are all pretty much standard fantasy fodder. And make an appearance in the Gothic universe... ;)
It is like saying New York is pretty much the same with a tribe from Afghanistan just because people are in both places. Gothic may use these things, but it is different. Especially Gothic 1. It is based much more on realism than on fantasy, meaning you are a human with limits, who starts growing into a hero not for the good of others, but because he wants his well-being. He ends up a shadow because he wants respect and ore. Then he just happens to save the world.:p
G2 has a much more fantasy feeling to it, maybe because you know from the start you are going to be the hero, because of the dragons and the paladins. But still the world is much more credible than in a regular fantasy world.
And G3... well, I guess it just doesn't have any unusual feeling to it, it's just a game to me.
Hellbilly
29.01.2010, 13:54
It is like saying New York is pretty much the same with a tribe from Afghanistan just because people are in both places.
a) I think your sarcasm detector is broken
b) I mentioned more than one similarity.
Gothic may use these things, but it is different. Especially Gothic 1. It is based much more on realism than on fantasy, meaning you are a human with limits, who starts growing into a hero not for the good of others, but because he wants his well-being.
Sounds to me like Morrowind or quite a few other RPG's, where the initial intention of the hero is to carry out some selfish mission, from finding his parents to getting rich to getting revenge, etc. They just sort of evolve into a save the world type of story.
And for the record, no, I don't think there should be elves or dwarves in Gothic.
ICFabian
29.01.2010, 14:38
The history of the Gothic universe is explained very well
You best be joking. With craters the size of Mars in the lore, I wouldn't exactly call it "explained very well."
firefly1981
29.01.2010, 14:42
what we need in gothic is more women, women which we're able to do a lot of quest with, take risen for example, we got lots of women, some of them are pretty sexy, and we can do some quest with them, become a ladies man.
http://upload.worldofplayers.de/files4/Untitled-1%20copy.jpg
Orcs, goblins, dragons, ogres, magic, lizard men, golems, trolls, enchanted weapons, et cetera are all pretty much standard fantasy fodder. And make an appearance in the Gothic universe... ;)
Yup. But when I play Gothic I don't have that typical "dwarves and elves and magic" RPG feeling, like in Morrowind or Dragon Age, for example. Other supreme races won't fit well in Gothic, at least that's what I think.
I mean... imagine if Diego was an elf, and Gorn was a dwarf. It just seems wrong.
Wut ? Elves would have definitely f*'ed the game.
Is't it enough awesome as it is ?!
ICFabian
29.01.2010, 18:42
http://upload.worldofplayers.de/files4/Untitled-1%20copy.jpg
http://www.freshmanandy.org/eyegasm/orig/win-one-internet.jpg
Korianous
30.01.2010, 01:50
ogres,... lizard men
Just wanted to mention, I think these two were the ones the Gothic Series could have done without. Particularly the lizard men. I feel similarly about elves, for the same reasons. The Human-Orc race thing works well with the Gothic lore already established. G3 and to a lesser extent G2 changed this to a degree that I didn't particularly care for.
^^I didn't like the cows, the chickens and the rabbits. Hated those, they shouldn't have been in a gothic game.
^^I didn't like the cows, the chickens and the rabbits. Hated those, they shouldn't have been in a gothic game.
Wait till you see the bears, the swans and giraffes from the southern islands.
Hellbilly
30.01.2010, 07:30
^^I didn't like the cows, the chickens and the rabbits. Hated those, they shouldn't have been in a gothic game.
Yeah, because those aren't realistic at all, they're pure fantasy, right?
They certainly did include Numenorians. Xardas did live for more than 100 years after all.
Yeah, because those aren't realistic at all, they're pure fantasy, right?
They just popped out in the third game. They do not fit the lore. I had trouble adjusting to the sheep from G2, but that was exaggerated.
Hellbilly
30.01.2010, 12:20
What? How do they not "fit into the lore"? There's nothing in the lore that says there couldn't, nay, wouldn't be snakes, vultures and rabbits. In fact, the presence of wolves makes it completely reasonable to assume other real-life creatures such as, yes, bunnies exist. Therefore, one could say they fit into the "lore" perfectly.
Anyways, if you're so concerned about everything fitting the lore to a tee, you must hate Gothic 2 because the whole ambivalency of the trinity of deities as presented in the original lore of G1 is thrown into the trashcan.
What? How do they not "fit into the lore"? There's nothing in the lore that says there couldn't, nay, wouldn't be snakes, vultures and rabbits.
More like they don't fit with what we imagined the rest of the world would be like.
In G1 most of the fauna, although inspired from real life, was kinda fantastical. Scavengers, snappers, bloodflies, lurkers, crawlers, swampsharks, etc.
In G2 we got new ones, like sheep and rats and variations of the old ones: black wolves, field raiders, etc. OK, plausible, Mine Valley was a closed ecosystem let's say, especially in the last 20 years.
In G3 we get new stuff: lions, cows, rabbits, birds that don't fly, boars, bison, etc. Let's say OK again, plausible.
But at this point, looking backwards, seems that the fantastical direction was abandoned for a copy/paste from real life. I would've expected something more creative in this area.
I get that each new game must have "new monsters" as a feature, but sometimes the implementation of such features is not great.
you must hate Gothic 2 because the whole ambivalency of the trinity of deities as presented in the original lore of G1 is thrown into the trashcan.
It's annoying when a dev does that.
Anyways, if you're so concerned about everything fitting the lore to a tee, you must hate Gothic 2 because the whole ambivalency of the trinity of deities as presented in the original lore of G1 is thrown into the trashcan.
I disliked the sheep. I was like WTF when I saw the first one, but the rest of the game was OK. And of course, I was not that fond of dragons and lizardmen, but managed to accept them, as they were ok in the end. The Jarkendar fauna and monsters was perfect, loved that. The rest, dito Larisa.
______________
OT: I bet you could argue that the sky is green just because someone said it is blue, you love doing that, don't you?
Hellbilly
30.01.2010, 17:16
...and you pretty much ignored what I said in what you quoted.
It is rather funny to first say you like Gothic because it's not fantastic but rather realistic, and then disliking the animals because they're not fantastic but rather realistic.
ICFabian
30.01.2010, 17:17
I always considered that Gothic 1 and 2 had the standard fare of animals, such as rabbits and birds and squirrels and stuff like that, just that they don't appear ingame.
Otherwise it doesn't make sense. What do Scavangers eat? For some reason [such as the damn name] I don't think Scavangers are herbivores.
Korianous
30.01.2010, 17:33
I could accept the introduction of real-life fauna such as sheep. Khorinis did have farmers after all, and typical farm animals would probably work better than introducing brand new fauna. The lack of cows did strike me as odd though. Did everyone in Khorinis drink goat milk :scared:?
It was when new fantastic creatures got brought into the mix and weren't adequately explained that I wasn't too thrilled. I did enjoy how dragons and the exotic beasts from Jharkendar were established. The rest of the new creatures, excluding farm animals, not so much.
...and you pretty much ignored what I said in what you quoted.
It is rather funny to first say you like Gothic because it's not fantastic but rather realistic, and then disliking the animals because they're not fantastic but rather realistic.
I like Gothic because it feels realistic, not because it is. It is the difference between the LotR movies and this movie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387541/). Gothic has that realistic feeling. But too much realism always spoils a game. Like if the hero always died from one sword hit, or a very limited inventory, or impossibility to run for more than a few yards while wearing an armor and so on. YOU are the one who misses the point for the sole sake of arguing.
RobinHood 13.
30.01.2010, 20:25
Otherwise it doesn't make sense. What do Scavangers eat? For some reason [such as the damn name] I don't think Scavangers are herbivores.
Scavengers looks similar to the terror birds, which were mostly (if not all) carnivores. They have mostly dominated the upper food chain after the extinction of the dinosaurs, but are now extinct.
Eventually more fierce predators came (like sabertooth's), and they mostly had to rely on scavenging.
Because they also eat from the ground in the gothic games, they must be omnivores.
I do think however, that if they first would make a terror bird kind of monster, they should have chosen the largest (3 metres tall).
Picture:
http://blicketdetector.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/paraphysornis_bw.jpg
ICFabian
30.01.2010, 20:27
Interesting. But in the Gothic world, Scavangers are at the bottom of the food chain. Even bloodflies attack them. And if they're carnivores, they need to eat something too.
Interesting. But in the Gothic world, Scavangers are at the bottom of the food chain. Even bloodflies attack them. And if they're carnivores, they need to eat something too.
Nope, molerats are, scavengers come second.
ICFabian
30.01.2010, 20:36
Oh fuuuuu-, I forgot all about the molerats.
Oh fuuuuu-, I forgot all about the molerats.
Hmm, what about meatbugs?
Argenguy
30.01.2010, 21:15
I could accept the introduction of real-life fauna such as sheep. Khorinis did have farmers after all, and typical farm animals would probably work better than introducing brand new fauna. The lack of cows did strike me as odd though. Did everyone in Khorinis drink goat milk :scared:?
It was when new fantastic creatures got brought into the mix and weren't adequately explained that I wasn't too thrilled. I did enjoy how dragons and the exotic beasts from Jharkendar were established. The rest of the new creatures, excluding farm animals, not so much.
Remember the "mutton sausages" quest when you joined the Monastery as a novice? One of the novices, the snotty rich guy, complained about the the sausage you were offering to him.
NH: Do you want a sausage?
Novice: Mmph! Sheep sausage, sheep meat, sheep milk, sheep cheese, @#$&%!
So yes, the main source of meat and milky products comes from the sheeps and goats. The closest things to pigs are the molerats as the scavengers are to the fowl.
Hellbilly
30.01.2010, 22:16
So yes, the main source of meat and milky products comes from the sheeps and goats.
At least in the monastery. Complaining about sheep being used for everything would indicate that the guy has tasted other animals' meat as well; if not, he'd complain about "always only sausages, meat, milk and cheese. Never any nice cauliflowers!"
Now... elves. Hm, I wonder, would they make for good sausages?
The closest things to pigs are the molerats
The closest things to pigs are the pigs from G3 (or was FG?).
Scavengers looks similar to the terror birds, which were mostly (if not all) carnivores. They have mostly dominated the upper food chain after the extinction of the dinosaurs, but are now extinct.
Eventually more fierce predators came (like sabertooth's), and they mostly had to rely on scavenging.
Because they also eat from the ground in the gothic games, they must be omnivores.
I do think however, that if they first would make a terror bird kind of monster, they should have chosen the largest (3 metres tall).
Picture:
http://blicketdetector.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/paraphysornis_bw.jpg
Actually, the terror birds you are referring to are the Terror Birds from South America which did get replaced with the Sabertooth Cats, once the Panaman land-bridge was created. That happened only a few million years ago.
The bird you are showing is Gaston's Bird, which dominated about 45-50 mya, in the eocen, mostly in Europe.
RobinHood 13.
31.01.2010, 17:31
Actually, the terror birds you are referring to are the Terror Birds from South America which did get replaced with the Sabertooth Cats, once the Panaman land-bridge was created. That happened only a few million years ago.
The bird you are showing is Gaston's Bird, which dominated about 45-50 mya, in the eocen, mostly in Europe.
I know this was a different one. Chose it because it's proportions looked more like that of a scavenger.
The picture I showed is also a terror bird.
I said if they first wanted to have terror birds they should have chosen the largest like the Phorusrhacos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorusrhacos)
Or have both would be cool.
Argenguy
01.02.2010, 00:04
The closest things to pigs are the pigs from G3 (or was FG?).
I mean, in Gothic 1&2 of course. It seems that Khorinis has a shepherd culture whereas in Mythana, being bigger and with more plain terrains, you can herd cows and pigs too.
Nope, molerats are, scavengers come second.
Wrong, the meatbug are on the bottom, followed by the turtles and small lizards, then by the molerats, and then by the scavengers, giant rats and bloodflies.
never seen a turtle or a small lizard ....
oooh G3 right ?
Wrong, the meatbug are on the bottom, followed by the turtles and small lizards, then by the molerats, and then by the scavengers, giant rats and bloodflies.
lolwut ? ('wrong' is not the best word you can use when speaking on the forum where friendly talk is appreciated)
What about snakes ?
@KGS (http://forum.worldofplayers.de/forum/member.php?u=32610) YEP, Gothic 3. you should try it !
The gothic 3 ending **Spoiler** " Portal to the new world "
I was thinking an elven race would appear in the new world that most of us were expecting.
Which would of been nice, but gothic is gothic and not a pansy generic fantasy its got its own background and feel, so not having elfs is fine
Korianous
13.02.2010, 16:12
So yes, the main source of meat and milky products comes from the sheeps and goats. The closest things to pigs are the molerats as the scavengers are to the fowl.
My question was did everyone in Khorinis do so? Ditto on what HB said, Agon's reaction implied that he'd previously eaten a more varied diet prior to life in the monastery. Since the mainland has cows, it struck me as odd that they wouldn't take them over to the colonies as well. Ah well, that's creative license for you.
Since the mainland has cows, it struck me as odd that they wouldn't take them over to the colonies as well.
You have to carefully consider the properties of the flora in Khorinis. Was there enough/proper grass for the cows to eat? Maybe the cost/performance ratio wasn't so good for cows, farmers had to cut their loses somehow in times of economical crisis. Maybe sheep ate less, they also gave wool each year, are smaller, more sheepish... not like those bloody cows.
Perhaps the reason are because Khorinis is a mountain region. In Romania, for example, peasants breed cows mostly on the lowlands, while sheep breeding is predominant in mountain regoins. Anyway, let's get back on topic.
Elves could be introduced to the Gothic lore, but it would be very difficult to do so without changing the feeling of the Gothic universe. Perhaps the unknown lands could be an answer, but IMO, Gothic is better without elves. Its because in Gothic, the omnipresent "elves, humans, orcs" trio doesn't exist. It is one of the things which set Gothic apart from other fantasy universes.
RobinHood 13.
14.02.2010, 10:37
Elves could be introduced to the Gothic lore, but it would be very difficult to do so without changing the feeling of the Gothic universe. Perhaps the unknown lands could be an answer, but IMO, Gothic is better without elves. Its because in Gothic, the omnipresent "elves, humans, orcs" trio doesn't exist. It is one of the things which set Gothic apart from other fantasy universes.
It's fully possible.
It all matters how it is implemented. A traditional elves thingy wouldn't fit.
Something I could agree with:
One or several mages(s) believes humans are a weak race, and needs to be improved.
Therefore they research in how to make humans better.
Their product is something looking familiar to an elf (in my rpg-"project") dark elves. There is one drawback though.
They're sterile(in reality to much genetically altered), and few survive (no women so far) the transformation.
In return they are much stronger, faster, can survive much more, stronger senses, and have hightened reflexes.
Long term goal. Create "elf" women, and by that establish the new improved human race.
The setting could evolve around, how are these new mutated humans accepted, and the conflicts around it.
Notice rather than the typical, elves becoming degraded and turn into humans,
I've gone a more realistic way. Humans evolving, turning into elves.
Oh I almost forgot... In FG there is an axe in which description it says that it was forged by mythical elven race from the north maybe they are thinking of the land behind the portal :dnuhr:
Hav'caaren An'givare
14.02.2010, 19:24
Oh I almost forgot... In FG there is an axe in which description it says that it was forged by mythical elven race from the north maybe they are thinking of the land behind the portal :dnuhr:
That and another spear wich was made by a dwarven battlemage §xlol.
When Trine made the games,they were given no info concerning the lore of the gothic series (I bet they hadn't even played gothic 3,let elone the other 2).When they heard they were going to make a fantasy rpg,they must have been thinking that it was one of those games wich are standard (Oblivion like,concerning the lore,with elves,dwarves and argonians and dragons etc.)
So no,the elves are not part of the gothic lore,even in the twiligth-zone FoGo :p.
But if there were ever going to be elves,they should be like in the Witcher (both books and games).They seemed more like a starving,ill nation wich live in ghettos and have a deep hatred twords humans.They were the only elves I liked :).
That and anpther spear wich was made by a dwarven battlemage §xlol.
When Trine made the games,they were given no info concerning the lore of the gothic series (I bet they hadn't even played gothic 3,let elone the other 2).When they heardthey were going to make a fantasy rpg,they must have been thinking that it was one of those games wich are standard (Oblivion like,concerning the lore,with elves,dwarves and argonians and dragons etc.)
Sono,the elves are not part of the gothic lore,even in the twiligth-zone FoGo :p.
But if there were ever going to be elves,they shouldbe like in the Witcher (both books and games).They seemed more like starving,ill nation wich live in ghettos and have a deep hatredtwords humans.They were the only elves I liked :).
Dunno about the spear, but it was like a ,,wut, wtf is this axe''
Oh and you're right, FG is the worst Gothic I ever played
Hav'caaren An'givare
17.02.2010, 17:04
Dunno about the spear, but it was like a ,,wut, wtf is this axe''
Oh and you're right, FG is the worst Gothic I ever played
Actually it's the worst game played.
Back to topic.
Don't know about elves and dwarves,but mutants created by necromancers would be something.Oh what I forgot,they were already in GII (seekers)
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