Risen Magic system

[DrDuckman]

Can some of you lucky german speakers(or even luckier english speakers that got the game early) help me with this?

I know Risen has two types of magic, one that the inquisition and mages can use, and one that only mages can access. However, I hear that the only attack spells are the 3 spells the Inquisition can use. Are these all? Fireball, Iceball and Magic Missile? Where are the massive pillars of fires, summoning skeletons etc?

If that is so, what is the benefit of being a Mage? a suite of utility spells? that hardly seems balanced, especially since there are still scrolls etc.

I ask this because I recently saw a Risen video that seemed to show much bigger attack spells, like what looked like a Fire Pillar, and some sort of purple Nova effect.

[Genkenaar]

Can some of you lucky german speakers(or even luckier english speakers that got the game early) help me with this?

I know Risen has two types of magic, one that the inquisition and mages can use, and one that only mages can access. However, I hear that the only attack spells are the 3 spells the Inquisition can use. Are these all? Fireball, Iceball and Magic Missile? Where are the massive pillars of fires, summoning skeletons etc?

If that is so, what is the benefit of being a Mage? a suite of utility spells? that hardly seems balanced, especially since there are still scrolls etc.

I ask this because I recently saw a Risen video that seemed to show much bigger attack spells, like what looked like a Fire Pillar, and some sort of purple Nova effect.

I think you might want to use a Spoiler tag, you're talking about story-based things.

I think those spells might be the scrolls you can make and use, tho I'm not sure, I'm playing as a Don's Swordman right now (so haven't played as a mage yet), also it seems that the higher level skills become, the more advanced they become, so it might be that the crystal spells get different animations when they advance.

*EDIT* erm, had to edit my quote, sorry ^^

[foobar]

Yes, there are only 3 "real" attack spells which you share with the order warriors. The mages can use runic magic which includes levitation, transformation (Nautilus and Ashbeast), lock opening, telekinesis, inferno (kind of a firestorm), summoning (one skeleton - name: Fred).

These spells are also available as scrolls. Mages can find runes and once they unlocked the seal (similar to the magic circles in G1/G2), they can cast these spells as much as they want to - until they run out of mana, of course.

To unlock a seal, you need a minimum amount of wisdom. Wisdom cannot be trained, it has to be acquired the hard way by reading. Book stands and stone plates in the world give you a wisdom bonus when read and once you have gathered enough wisdom, you can unlock a seal. In principle, it's a really nice idea to have an attribute that can only be raised by reading. But it ends up to be a lot of work for something that is not really necessary. You only do it for your personal honour as mage.

Personally, I think mages are not special enough. They can only master staff fighting, in which they are no different from the order warriors. Same goes for the crystal magic. The runic magic is not really necessary to play the game. In the few cases where you really need a runic spell to continue forward, you can use a scroll. And anyone can learn to make their own scrolls from runes, too. There is not even a difference in the behaviour of NPC towards you. Other mages and order warrior treat you just as friendly and pally as they would if you were an order warrior. And the bandits recognise you only as someone from the vulcano fortress, like the Inquisition. They do not treat you the smallest bit more friendly because you're a mage - even though the mages are supposed to be neutral.

Bandits are clearly the most special class. They alone can master the sword and even craft their own special weapons. Order warriors and mages can forge weapons, too, but only swords. Which they cannot master. There is no way to forge or craft or enchant your own staff, for example.

So the mages do not really have anything unique. The only thing are the runes and those can be replaced by scrolls. It's a bit sad because I like to play as mage.

[cifre]

I know I'm delaying you from translation but:
is 'wisdom' influencing other attributes or things in the game for non-mages characters? if not, that means reading books becomes an unnecessary thing for fighter types? thanx

[foobar]

I know I'm delaying you from translation but:
is 'wisdom' influencing other attributes or things in the game for non-mages characters? if not, that means reading books becomes an unnecessary thing for fighter types? thanx

They did not reveal any formulas to us but I noticed nothing in that regard, no.

[DrDuckman]

What does the inferno do then?

That is quite sad. One of the great things in gothic was that it made mages feel powerful and unique. And you say that they can't train swords at all?

So can't you make a paladin style warrior atleast? The Order Warrior can train swords but can't master them or what?

Also, do the Crystal magic spells change when leveled up? (Bigger AOE? flashier graphics? etc?)

[Genkenaar]

Yes, there are only 3 "real" attack spells which you share with the order warriors. The mages can use runic magic which includes levitation, transformation (Nautilus and Ashbeast), lock opening, telekinesis, inferno (kind of a firestorm), summoning (one skeleton - name: Fred).

These spells are also available as scrolls. Mages can find runes and once they unlocked the seal (similar to the magic circles in G1/G2), they can cast these spells as much as they want to - until they run out of mana, of course.

To unlock a seal, you need a minimum amount of wisdom. Wisdom cannot be trained, it has to be acquired the hard way by reading. Book stands and stone plates in the world give you a wisdom bonus when read and once you have gathered enough wisdom, you can unlock a seal. In principle, it's a really nice idea to have an attribute that can only be raised by reading. But it ends up to be a lot of work for something that is not really necessary. You only do it for your personal honour as mage.

Personally, I think mages are not special enough. They can only master staff fighting, in which they are no different from the order warriors. Same goes for the crystal magic. The runic magic is not really necessary to play the game. In the few cases where you really need a runic spell to continue forward, you can use a scroll. And anyone can learn to make their own scrolls from runes, too. There is not even a difference in the behaviour of NPC towards you. Other mages and order warrior treat you just as friendly and pally as they would if you were an order warrior. And the bandits recognise you only as someone from the vulcano fortress, like the Inquisition. They do not treat you the smallest bit more friendly because you're a mage - even though the mages are supposed to be neutral.

Bandits are clearly the most special class. They alone can master the sword and even craft their own special weapons. Order warriors and mages can forge weapons, too, but only swords. Which they cannot master. There is no way to forge or craft or enchant your own staff, for example.

So the mages do not really have anything unique. The only thing are the runes and those can be replaced by scrolls. It's a bit sad because I like to play as mage.


Hmm, I thought that in the beginning you had a choice to either hand over yourself to the Inquisition (at the part where the guy says to not run into those people, where you get a mage training if you do so) or go to the Don's camp and become a warrior.
And my thought on that was that if you handed yourself over, that you became enemy of the Don's and vice versa.
Well I guess you would just have to be a mage for yourself because you want to be it and not for the uniqueness?
I've only been playing through the Don's camp so far, so I don't know anything about magic, I'm a Swordman.

[Talek]

you wont learn until you play it yourself. who knows what lies in waiting -- I dont suppose even foobar, our treasurer, knows everything about the path of the magi :).

[foobar]

What does the inferno do then?

I already wrote that. :dnuhr:


And you say that they can't train swords at all?

They can train but only up to level 7, not 10.


The Order Warrior can train swords but can't master them or what?

Yes, that's about it.


Also, do the Crystal magic spells change when leveled up? (Bigger AOE? flashier graphics? etc?)

Of course they change when levelled up. Why would anyone want to level them up otherwise? ;)

The frost for example lasts longer and deals more damage. The magic missle gains a higher fire rate and damage. The fireball... um, I did not level that one and focussed on frost and mm. Sorry, I do not remember. And I'm currently under Linux so cannot just look.

[DrDuckman]

I was wondering if the spells changed visually as well...

What a shame, you can't even make a proper paladin.

I wonder if the skeleton summon and the inferno is enough to make up for losing the Order armors.... I rather doubt it.

Will I be forced to play a non magic PC in an RPG? gasp!

Unless ofcourse Inferno turns out to be a massive room clearing spell of devastation, but I somehow doubt it.

[foobar]

Well, the game is not bad. I just told you the things that I did not like and not the many things I liked (because I don't have all day).

RISEN is far from being perfect but well worth its money, if you ask me. I'm bitching on a high level here.

[Stalagmite]

Too bad about order warriors not being able to go past level 7 in sword fighting, better make up for it with the crossbow. ;)

I hate mages, I mean, I don't mind working with them, just not for them.

[Thomac]

Just wondering here, is there any way for a mage to regain mana over time other than drinking potions or sleeping? Or rather, is the magic system more similar to G3 than NoTR?

[foobar]

No mana regeneration, no. Just potions or sleep.

BTW: Welcome to the forum.

[Thomac]

Oh bummer. Well, I hope mana potions aren't that hard to find or make then, and that they're actually somewhat efficient. NoTR could be rather unforgiving in that regard.

[RobinHood 13.]

Oh bummer. Well, I hope mana potions aren't that hard to find or make then, and that they're actually somewhat efficient. NoTR could be rather unforgiving in that regard.

Notr had the problem mana becam to expensive to train. 1 mana is not worth the same as 1 of the others, and lp should reflect this.

[Janek]

Are there enough mana potions in the game to make playing a mage enjoyable?
In Gothic 2 playing a mage was kinda frustrating due to constant lack of mana.

[04WigmoreB]

Are there enough mana potions in the game to make playing a mage enjoyable?
In Gothic 2 playing a mage was kinda frustrating due to constant lack of mana.

There are loads of herbs you can find that refill lots of mana at the beggining, and so far every merchant I have come across sells mana potions. Add the fact that you can make them yourself and I think I can safely say there are enough mana potions :) .

[RobinHood 13.]

Well you can't really play mage in beginning. You can cast a few scrolls, but you need to learn either crystal magic or runes to be able to fully use magic.
That's how the game is designed.

[zonc]

Anyone else thinks that wisdom based system is WRONG? I mean, why not copy magic from G2. In further chapters we were able to learn higher lvl magic, and it was fine. I loved rushing VOM, so chapter 3 began and I could learn skelly summoning (best spell ever)

Now in Risen as a mage I had to run all over the world, pick up every stone plate and read every bookstand. This means I had to go everywhere and kill most of the stuff in the island. At the point where I could learn lvl 3 seal, which had awesome Open Locks and Conjure Skeleton (yeey), I was already opening the tombs. Most quests were done already, and all that left was lizardman fighting. In G2 I saved all the fights until I got lvl 3 runes.

Many of ppl complain that Risen is copy-paste from G2. So I ask: what is wrong with that ??? why bother inventing something new, where old things were just fine. I mean, sure there has to be improvement in some areas otherwise we still would live in caves, but... you get my point :)

[Ulysse]

Well, you actually can learn almost everything as a mage. You can get lvl 10 in axes any time. You can get lvl 10 in swords before you become a mage (in the 1st chapter), but imo axes are much better. If you play a fighter, you simply have too many LPs. As a mage, you can max both magic and melee or ranged. Ive played both fighter and mage, and playing a mage is much easier imo, cause you dont need to fight in melee with enemies that can kill you with 1-2 hits (hard difficulty, of course). Hell, even if you dont use crystals you are a better melee combatant then the actual fighter, because you can have maxed melee skills AND unlimited berserk uses.

[Fuel]

Ulysse, are you saying, that i can get level 10 in sword fighting if i get it before i join the order?

[fragonard]

because you can have maxed melee skills AND unlimited berserk uses.
Is the Berserker spell a rune? Where do you get it? I just started a mage and haven't come across it. TIA.

[Ulysse]

2 Fuel:
yes
2 fragonard:
eastern temple

[Fuel]

May take some time, but gotta try that.

[Dino]

The magic system of risen is IMO one of it's strongest aspects.
I loved every party of it. Especially the crystals. Since crystals are one of my favorite things IRL anyway. I actually have a few... love 'em :D

The thing with the "seals" was also good. Brilliant, again.

Too bad there are so few spells. Oh well can't have everything :o

[Sinathor]

I'm playing through my second time. Finished with a warrior on my first go and now as a fire mage.

I play on hard difficulty and I think that magic is quite overpowered. It's fun, and it takes a long time before you even get your first crystal, but still... It's really easy. Plenty of mana around and you can run all the time during fights.

I'm at Chapter 4 now, almost ready for the final boss, and I've yet to see much challenge, and I really know it won't come.

Next I think I'll have a break from Risen... For atleast... 2 days!!! Then, archer probably. Archer thief thing. ^___^

[fragonard]

Yep, magic is very powerful. I saved my LP in Harbor town so I could leave the Monastery with level 5 magic missile at the start of Ch2 and it certainly is a game changer. That tunnel on the way to the east was so simple: I was able to take out all the skellies and ghouls without taking any damage myself. I hope this doesn't get too boring.