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TheDoctor
21.08.2009, 11:45
No, this is not a thread meant to face-off Risen against Gothic 3. I would simply like to discuss all the things which has been made better since Piranha Bytes released Gothic 3. They sure learned a lot from their mistakes, judging by the looks of what Risen is shaping into.
For example, Risen will have a decent introduction-cutscene and seemingly a good tutorial for learning the basic commands at the beginning of the game. Gothic 3 had a worthless introduction and no tutorial (well, at least not a good one). In Risen, you're beginning your adventure as you should in any RPG, alone and at low-level, wheras in Gothic III you were thrown right into a great combat without any clue of why.
Of course, Risen will have fewer bugs and better weather effects than Gothic 3, judging from the thunder and rain effects that's been shown in some videos, not to mention the sunsets. Also, I think that the sea looks a lot better than the sea in Gothic 3 - anyone remember that horizontal line in the middle of the distance? Well, that seems to be gone in Risen.
I think Piranha Bytes have done a great job polishing. Anyone else? :)
TeLovesc
21.08.2009, 11:54
Well ,in my opinion the armors look much better now ,and also the human models too.
The world is smaller but hopefully they focused more on the story.
Better CG intro. Atmosphere and style from the first trailer seems very good to me. I hope there will be more than intro and outro.
Better interface, magic and crafting, ragdolls (bodies don't fly so far).
I will write when remember more. :)
Well ,in my opinion the armors look much better now ,...
Amen, brother.
One thing that bothered me in Gothic III were the armors but in Risen, PB had made some really good looking armors and for me that's a big plus.
Another thing is the vegetation, which is much dense now.
Unfortunately, not everything about Risen compares so well with Gothic 3.
For one thing, swimming has been removed. But climbing is back! So that evens out.
The world is MUCH smaller. But everything is hand-placed now! So that evens out too.
Uh.. that's all I can think of right now :D
One thing that makes me sad is that since there's no swimming, there's also no diving. I loved that about Gothic/Gothic 2. Finding underwater caves, sunken ships, feeling that panic when you're diving in an underwater tunnel and you don't know if your air will last.. I miss all that stuff.
I really hope Risen 2 has swimming/diving again. Perhaps even with a few quests that involves diving! Like, if there's an alchemy skill like there was in the Gothic games, maybe you could make an underwater breathing potion to be able to get down really deep and explore.. Very few games allow this and the more features that makes Risen unique, the better.
TheDoctor
21.08.2009, 22:26
The world is MUCH smaller. But everything is hand-placed now! So that evens out too.
Just a note: Everything was hand-placed in Gothic 3 too. ;)
One thing that makes me sad is that since there's no swimming, there's also no diving. I loved that about Gothic/Gothic 2. Finding underwater caves, sunken ships, feeling that panic when you're diving in an underwater tunnel and you don't know if your air will last.. I miss all that stuff.
I'm actually curious about how they have solved this. Will the sea be protected from trespassing by invisible walls? Could anyone answer this?
RobinHood 13.
21.08.2009, 22:49
I guess swimming would bring up some problems, since you can then get alot of places by just swimmin around the island.
For instance you could just swim from start location to town, skipping the entire get into the city thingy, and greatly harm storyline.
That means they would have to make some invisible wall, or something to stop that.
The clothes on armors (and armors generally) look very good, which is a huge difference from G3.
I think it's safe to say that this time they've focused on creating a great and interacting story, especially cutscenes cutscenes will add to this (which is new for PB).
There's one thing which I think will stay in Risen, is the hero's motives arekinda lacking. NH has always been very emotionless, and uncharacteristic. It's the opposite of cliche.
I don't want the classic, village burned down, closest lost, out to get revenge plot;)
I still would like to see a slightly more human-like character.
Only combat we've seen enough of to make up our mind about, is 1-hand early lvl.
Looks clumsy, which kinda is the idea, and something between G2 and G3 combat. I'm very interested in magic, and how it's like in the heat of battle, and higher lvl fighting.
Two of the things I didn't like about Gothic1-2 combat system, were how predictable the AI was, the other thing was fighting agains several enemies. The combat system weren't made for such fights, and it looked unnatural.
Hope there are some improvements there.
Graphics are improved, especially characters (faces, hair, armors etc).
Smaller world, which is a good thing. G3 world were to large boring, and looked half-generated.
No chapters, which meant constant world, no changes not made by us.
The world seems to be very dense and unique.
Large cave complexes is promised, thats a +, aslong as they're not just generated caves with no story to tell, which oblivion had alot off.
I was looking forward to G3, and were dissapointed.
I am looking forward to Risen and hope I won't make the same mistake again.
Seriously I think this will be a great game, with a better world and story than any of the previous games.
Just a note: Everything was hand-placed in Gothic 3 too. ;)
I think he meant the random loot.
I'm actually curious about how they have solved this. Will the sea be protected from trespassing by invisible walls? Could anyone answer this?
I don't remember where I read it.
When hero fall into deep water, he is sinking, feeling hydrofobia after ship wreckage :) then...
http://image.jeuxvideo.com/images/pc/r/i/risen-pc-150.jpg
Giant worm push him out from sea. It must be funny.
Or eat hero. I don't remember. :)
Swimming and diving were not so important things. In Gothic was only one useful diving (Old Xardas Tower). Am I right?
@mkreku:
Well, i don't think it's right away the good think if world is big or small. just becuase it's big, doesn't mean that's a good thing. Just remember of those dunes in g3. They were huge, but boring as all hell. On the other hand, G1 had very small world, but far far more intresting.
So i realy wouldn't say those two evens out. It's like saying g1 world is small, but cool, g3 huge, but not so cool, so that evens out. And i wouldn't agree, as g1, despite small world, is by lightyears far more intresting to play then those dunes in g3, no matter how big they are.
I guess what i'm trying to say is, the fact that world is small, may not be minus at all, but really good and positive thing.
As some like to say, it's the the size that matters, it's how you use it. :P
You are correct Zocky.
The size of the playmap can be similar to editing a high end moviestory: if you cut out all the bad pieces, you strengthen the content of the entire movie. A game is an interactive movie, especially storydriven games like the Gothic series.
Who havent seen the awesomely huge Far Cry 2 world? But there is nothing but annoying road blocks in it. If they had shrinked it 50%, removed the roadblocks but kept all the good content the game would have been much more thrilling and interesting, even though the story sucked- and we still have just removed alot of bad options.
So removing, if done right, can be just the little thing needed for perfection.
TheDoctor
22.08.2009, 14:31
@mkreku:
Well, i don't think it's right away the good think if world is big or small. just becuase it's big, doesn't mean that's a good thing. Just remember of those dunes in g3. They were huge, but boring as all hell.
I have to be honest about this, the desert were something I (as a passioned fan of the Dune-books by Frank Herbert) looked forward to tremendously. But the actual thing was pretty boring - the dunes were too small, the desert was too dense with cliffs, oasises, temples bla bla.. I wanted plain desert to actually get lost in. Maybe with a sandworm roaming the sands - kind of like the sea monster from Gothic II. In other words, the desert was not boring because it was big and plain, it was boring to me because it wasn't enough big and enough plain. :p
It still was a great contrast to the forest areas of Myrtana. When you've been running around for hours doing quests for the Hashishin, you would return to Mytana, to those damp and dense woods and you could simply feel the hot air condensing around your cheeks. I loved it. I also have to say that the ice-area of G3 was the most boring one, and it felt like the graphics was converted to Gothic 2-graphics when you entered that area.
To go ontopic about this, I'm very anxious to explore the mediterranian fauna of Risen. ;)
Just a note: Everything was hand-placed in Gothic 3 too. ;)
No. It wasn't. All the chests that were lying around everywhere in the woods? Not hand placed. The locations of the majority of enemies? Not hand placed. The stuff you found in chests? Not hand placed.
There were a lot of things Piranha Bytes didn't have time to do in Gothic 3. They've said so themselves.
If you look through the QA-threads on this very board, you'll find that they've said that Risen will be all hand placed again.
Risen vs Gothic 3? Why would you even compare those games man! It's like... gothic 3 is way out of it's league. I don't know what Risen will be but I'm sure I'll like it much more than that piece of crap Gothic 3.
I really, hate gothic 3. It can't run on my old pc and it can't run on my new PC which can support it on max no problem. Makes sense right?
catalinux
24.08.2009, 12:51
More cutscenes in Risen? I hate this. I don't see why should we have even chapters.
TheDoctor
24.08.2009, 13:34
No. It wasn't. All the chests that were lying around everywhere in the woods? Not hand placed. The locations of the majority of enemies? Not hand placed. The stuff you found in chests? Not hand placed.
As far as I know, the only thing generated in Gothic 3 is the content of the chests. Where the chests have been placed, as with the monsters, was made by hand.
More cutscenes in Risen? I hate this. I don't see why should we have even chapters.
Please use tags, i almost took you seriously.
RobinHood 13.
24.08.2009, 17:49
As far as I know, the only thing generated in Gothic 3 is the content of the chests. Where the chests have been placed, as with the monsters, was made by hand.
I think it was hand placed, but still it's very randomly placed.
Monsters locations and landscapes have a very random look. The conclusion I can draw from this, is it's rushed, not speding time to find out if that fits this place, and does it look unique enough.
G1 and G2 are the exact opposite, where everything looks carefully placed giving every corner of the world a unique look. This lacked in G3, but one of the prewiews of Risen praised the game for exactly this, which means this will more likely remind you of the old gothics.
BTW: cutscenes and chapters will make the story and world progression so much better, think you were joking though.
Monsters locations and landscapes have a very random look.
You mean landscape generator and random monster location (or life simulation like in S.T.A.L.K.E.R.)? :)
Risen vs Gothic 3? Why would you even compare those games man! It's like... gothic 3 is way out of it's league. I don't know what Risen will be but I'm sure I'll like it much more than that piece of crap Gothic 3.
I really, hate gothic 3. It can't run on my old pc and it can't run on my new PC which can support it on max no problem. Makes sense right?
Same thing for me about the performance. Even with community patch 1.72. About Risen - I'm sure it will be optimised decently and have a lot of graphical options to chose from.
My opinion (I compare it with just G1 and 2 - G3 being out of discussion).
Fighting system:
- you can attack more enemies at ones;
- you can be attacked by more enemies at once;
- you learn more moves and combos (at least from what I saw on the latest videos);
- weapons type now count in the fighting (axes, swords and staffs/hammers);
- improved 'leg dancing' when fighting. the fight is more emphasized on the moving around and surprising the enemy;
- nicer moves with the weapons;
- free aiming for bow and spells;
- can drink potion while running.
Bug list:
- game is fluent and is bug-free as a 'normal' game can be.
Items and npc's:
- nicer armors (I don't like playing as mage and I never did in any Gothic game, but I'm really impressed about the armor of mages here and it makes me want to try it);
- nicer inventory and icons in it;
- nicer faces for npc (I mean more like particular faces);
- more active and smarter (judging by the fighting videos);
- new fresh weapons;
Other:
- better graphics, though I don't compare it to todays graphics, they are better than G1 and 2 which is enough for me.
- bigger map (I said it because it has more dungeons and caves under the surface than the other 2.
As for the weak points, I cannot see anything for now cause they can only be on the quests and story ( which we don't know yet) Would have been only the hero's face but I like it now as it is.
I'm really impressed about the armor of mages
Can you show me a screenshot or somthing?
RobinHood 13.
18.09.2009, 10:35
My opinion (I compare it with just G1 and 2 - G3 being out of discussion).
Fully agree with what you said, but you also forgot:
Awesome voice-actors (Gollum and Gimli;)),
and cutscenes, which have the potential of a really great story.
Its impossible to compare Risen with any of the Gothic games, because therefore you'll have to play it first. When i have seen first ingame videos and screenshots of Gothic 3 i was speechless. As soon as i have played it i felt the difference to the previous 1 and 2. I did accept it and had much fun playing Gothic 3.
So first play Risen and only then you can say, whether its better or not. The already released informations sound good and the world looks nice, but story and gameplay still have to prove their worth.
wkr
Ringo81
Its impossible to compare Risen with any of the Gothic games, because therefore you'll have to play it first. When i have seen first ingame videos and screenshots of Gothic 3 i was speechless. As soon as i have played it i felt the difference to the previous 1 and 2. I did accept it and had much fun playing Gothic 3.
So first play Risen and only then you can say, whether its better or not. The already released informations sound good and the world looks nice, but story and gameplay still have to prove their worth.
wkr
Ringo81
Yeah, that's why I haven't said anything about story and gameplay. But for the others, knowing already some weak points G3 had and knowing the videos of risen and the first 2 gothics we can already draw some conclusions.
but you also forgot:
Awesome voice-actors (Gollum and Gimli),
and cutscenes,
yeah, you're right.
Can you show me a screenshot or somthing?
I just saw the armor in the third video from http://gameone.de/blog/2009/9/risen-uber-45-minuten-gameplay-pur
I just wish this armor could have hood behind it, like fire mages in G2.
I just wish this armor could have hood behind it, like fire mages in G2.
I'm pretty sure that's just the novice armor.
Well, from what i seen i can tell that the only difference between novice and master robe is color.
The smaller world in comparison is a great plus. In G3 the world was redundant, which resulted in many problems e.g. slow save games.
A smaller world will have allot more to offer per square mile.
The redundant world of G3 also had as a result to it's vastness, allot of repetitive patterns.
I can't remember how many cities there were, but similar quest, different city was my experience. The huge size was cumbersome.
So I'm happy to see that the Risen world is going to be modest in size. I think they said it's going to be roughly 3 times the size of G2.
The climbing will be a plus, but IMO not that necessary.
Where would you like to climb anyway? A tree a wall?
In G3 you can get on top of most of the hills/ mountains if you want.
But there is nothing there but maybe view?
So what's the point?
Swimming/ diving would have been way more interesting. I'd love to swim through flooded dungeons, or in a loch, dive in a lake and to find an entrance to a sunken ruin...(although the game's called Risen) ;) or in the harbor e.g to find a secret entrance to the sewer world under the town.
I do hope they improved on the character's, their day jobs, their responses and what they have to say.
Apparently the characters still look unproportional, but let's forget about that.
I just hope they have improved in their verbal skills.
triangles
18.09.2009, 20:21
So I'm happy to see that the Risen world is going to be modest in size. I think they said it's going to be roughly 3 times the size of G2.
Where and when did "they" say that ? Give me a quote.
The world of Gothic 3 was 3 times the size of Gothic 2's world.
Where and when did "they" say that ? Give me a quote.
The world of Gothic 3 was 3 times the size of Gothic 2's world.
oh my bad, must have confused something here, I don't know where I read this,
but the Risen world is significently smaller then the G3 world. Right?
does anyone remember the exact ratio?
they said it will be as big as G2, but because of the 'under' surface dungeons and caves, it will be bigger.
triangles
18.09.2009, 20:43
they said it will be as big as G2, but because of the 'under' surface dungeons and caves, it will be bigger.
Gothic 2 + NOTR :D ?
Gothic 2 + NOTR :D ?
and I though I read that the larger part of Risen is in the dungeons
RobinHood 13.
19.09.2009, 00:04
and I though I read that the larger part of Risen is in the dungeons
I think they said it will be about as big as Gothic 2 (without NOTR), but more large dungeons, so still bigger than G2, maybe if you include that (but probably smaller than G2NOTR).
Dunno what you meant by the post exactly, but I highly doubt most of gameplay will be in dungeons.
It is a good thing the world isn't as big as g3's. Cos a huge world means they have to fill it with something good otherwise it would suck, like in Oblivion. I mean, I love that game but the world is just too freaign' huge and repetative. That's probably the weakest side of Oblivion.
And having dungeons sounds good. I hope they're not the same and repetative as in Oblivion.
[edit]
And... I am pretty sure Risen will be better than gothic3 no matter what so... I see no reason to compare them.
04WigmoreB
19.09.2009, 12:55
Just wondering if someone could compare the size of the map to some other game for me please, because I havent played any of the Gothics (But from what I've read, I'll be looking to pick them up soon).
Just wondering if someone could compare the size of the map to some other game for me please, because I havent played any of the Gothics (But from what I've read, I'll be looking to pick them up soon).
There are several places in the first Gothics.
In g1, the action happenes in the Valley of the Mines (VoM), which I think is half of the Risen world or 1/3.
In g2 gold, the action happenes on the Island of khorinis and an are called Jarkendar, which is about.... 1/4 oh the island I would say. You can also visit the Valley of the Mines again.
In g3, the map is (VoM + Khorinis + Jarkendar) times 3 or 4, so the map is huge.
Risen's map will be about the same size Khorinis + Jarkendar. 40% will be dungeons. I don't know if the Khorinis+ Jarkendar size reffers only to what is at the surface or includes the dungeons too.
04WigmoreB
19.09.2009, 14:41
There are several places in the first Gothics.
In g1, the action happenes in the Valley of the Mines (VoM), which I think is half of the Risen world or 1/3.
In g2 gold, the action happenes on the Island of khorinis and an are called Jarkendar, which is about.... 1/4 oh the island I would say. You can also visit the Valley of the Mines again.
In g3, the map is (VoM + Khorinis + Jarkendar) times 3 or 4, so the map is huge.
Risen's map will be about the same size Khorinis + Jarkendar. 40% will be dungeons. I don't know if the Khorinis+ Jarkendar size reffers only to what is at the surface or includes the dungeons too.
Thanks ... Kind of. But as I said I havent played any of the Gothics, so I still don't know how big Risen will be. Could you compare the size to say, Oblivion or something?
Easy. It should be something less than 1/4th of oblivion's gameworld, exlcuding caves and dungeons.
TheDoctor
19.09.2009, 15:14
Thanks ... Kind of. But as I said I havent played any of the Gothics, so I still don't know how big Risen will be. Could you compare the size to say, Oblivion or something?
No, not at all.
I think the size of Gothic 3 was about 7,5 square kilometers (correct me if I'm wrong). Since Gothic 3 was about three times as big as G1-G2 I'd say Risen is perhaps 5 square kilometers or something like that.
My digits might be wrong.
04WigmoreB
19.09.2009, 15:41
Easy. It should be something less than 1/4th of oblivion's gameworld, exlcuding caves and dungeons.
Thanks. That's great then. I hate games where it's just a big open world, with nothing but a few empty generated caves in it. And if everything is hand-placed, then it will be a much better, detailed world ... Yay!
I think they said it will be about as big as Gothic 2 (without NOTR), but more large dungeons, so still bigger than G2, maybe if you include that (but probably smaller than G2NOTR).
Dunno what you meant by the post exactly, but I highly doubt most of gameplay will be in dungeons.
I thought I read somewhere in the past: "the largest part of the game will play in the dungeons". But somehow the information on risen is confusing and scattered through out this forum.
But we'll find out for sure.. soon. :o
Thanks ... Kind of. But as I said I havent played any of the Gothics, so I still don't know how big Risen will be. Could you compare the size to say, Oblivion or something?
Oh, my bad. I thought you wanted to know how big the maps in the gothic games were.
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