Damage System

[Articuno]

Well Werner insisted on getting this in a new thread.So I ask it again.I want to know how does all str/weapon skills/enemy armor/weapon damage works when you hit an opponent.Also what effects your chances with in blowing a crictical hit?These are the ones I can think of atm.

[HIP-HOP X3M]

that is a good question.
I want to know too.

[Meteorus]

Well we'll take as example melee fight.
You're attacking guy in Heavy Mercenary armor - it means 60 physic protection(G2 classic). Let's assume you have 70 strength and wearing Orc's Slicer for 65 damage. So then it goes very easy. When you've hitten in your percentual chance of dealing full damage(weapon mastery) it goes so:
+70 damage from strength
+65 damage from weapon
-60 damage due to enemy's armor.
So 70+65-60=75damage we've dealt.
Same goes for shooting - only instead of strength your dexterity bonus is taken, Same for magic, only you don't have attribute bonuses and it's just that you don't need to hit in percent.
Also it seems, that fire protection deflects some of fire spell damage.

[Articuno]

Well we'll take as example melee fight.
You're attacking guy in Heavy Mercenary armor - it means 60 physic protection(G2 classic). Let's assume you have 70 strength and wearing Orc's Slicer for 65 damage. So then it goes very easy. When you've hitten in your percentual chance of dealing full damage(weapon mastery) it goes so:
+70 damage from strength
+65 damage from weapon
-60 damage due to enemy's armor.
So 70+65-60=75damage we've dealt.
Same goes for shooting - only instead of strength your dexterity bonus is taken, Same for magic, only you don't have attribute bonuses and it's just that you don't need to hit in percent.
Also it seems, that fire protection deflects some of fire spell damage.
You didn't exactly explain how the weapon mastery works or I didn't get it. What about critical hits also?

[.†.MikeL.†.]

You didn't exactly explain how the weapon mastery works or I didn't get it. What about critical hits also?

To do critical hit you have to hit your enemy the way he/she/it needs and if you are a master at sword you have a lot more possibilities and more ways to succed that for example:
To do critical hit to a wolf you need to hit it in the midle of it's body to do critical hit to a man you need to hit him when he attacks you etc.
Something like that. ;)

My english are a litle poor and I can't explain it to you better. :p

[Gor_Na_Drak]

Melee:

sword damage + str - enemy AR = total damage if your sword % is 100%. Sword % is an average amount of damage done. Meaning if you have 50 str and a weapon that does 50 damage and your sword % is at 50% you will inflict 50 damage on average. Sometimes you'll get only 10 damage, maybe even no damage, while sometimes you'll get the full 100 damage. It seems pretty random from my experience. But the higher the % the more often you'll get that critical hit. But even at 100% you will not get a critical hit 100% of the time. The above also works for melee weapons that require dex to weild. Though you need dex to use the weapon you still need str in order to increase damage. Extra dex will not help.

Ranged Weapons:

Bow/xbow damage + Dex - enemy AR against arrows = total damage. With ranged weapons % is only for hitting things at longer range. The greater the % the further away you can be and still hit things. A hit with a ranged weapon is always a critical. Meaning it's always at max damage. This also works for x/bows in NotR. Even though str is required to arm yourself with x/bows you still need dex in order to add extra damage. Extra str will not help.

There are certain milestone numbers to hit in training, whether it be melee or ranged. When these numbers are reached the hero changes his stance to a certain degree and holds the weapon differently. In the case of melee weapons the hero will strike faster and block faster with the melee weapon. In the case of ranged weapons the hero will also change stance and will fire slightly faster as well as being able to hit enemies from further away. Those milestones are 30%, 60%, and 90%.

I hope this answered your question.

Edit:

As has been mentioned here already, things like position can have an effect. Such as hitting the enemy square on in the middle of it's body will give greater damage then hiiting the enemy on the side of it's body. This also plays a factor in damage.

And as far as magic goes it depends on the magic being used. For the most part all magic is at critical, not including summonings. So if it's fire magic then it would be damage of fire spell - enemy AR against fire. If it's a lighning spell then it's damage of lightning - enemy AR against magic. Magic is very accurate from a far distance, but if the enemy should move just as you fire you can miss.

[WernerTWC]

But even at 100% you will not get a critical hit 100% of the time.
Sure? (And this is a honest question!) I mean,... i think it's when you have 100% you will always have a critical hit.

BTW.: I'm collecting now the formulas for the damage calculation, ... so @ all be a bit patient. :)


Such as hitting the enemy square on in the middle of it's body will give greater damage then hiiting the enemy on the side of it's body. This also plays a factor in damage.
Again, sure?

[Articuno]

Yes I also noticed that if you hit the enemy from back, you usually blow critical hits.He is also right that you dont make full damage even if you have skill at %100.Otherwise all of your hits would make same damage but it isn't

[Gor_Na_Drak]

Sure? (And this is a honest question!) I mean,... i think it's when you have 100% you will always have a critical hit.

BTW.: I'm collecting now the formulas for the damage calculation, ... so @ all be a bit patient. :)


Again, sure?

It has been my experience that I do not get 100% damage with every strike when I am at 100% in melee skill. Most of the time I do, but not every time. Yes I am sure.

Again I have noticed that even at 100% when say an orc comes at me, just for an example. If I side step him and hit him on the side often I notice that I don't do as much damage as I do when ever I stand my ground and hit him square in the middle of his body. (Though there is an advantage to the side step in that I often get an extra swing at him causing more overall damage. ;) )

[Sowilo]

Otherwise all of your hits would make same damage but it isn't
Maybe because the enemy blocks?

[Jono]

As has been mentioned here already, things like position can have an effect. Such as hitting the enemy square on in the middle of it's body will give greater damage then hiiting the enemy on the side of it's body. This also plays a factor in damage.

I sincerely doubt this to be true. If you happened to score a critical hit while hitting their back, its probably by chance. For a character to be damaged differently based on body parts, the ingame model must have proximity nodes attached to each area. This is usually not done unless you are developing a simulation type game such as rainbow six and even then it is never a true proximity collsion check as it will eat up too much memory for such a calculation on the fly. Instead they have specific target nodes placed out through the body and the game registers which part gets hit by rounding off to the closest distance. Animation sets also get complicated for 3rd person games as now you need an animation for left leg, right leg, right arm, and etc hits for each weapon type and style that the game will offer. You might play gothic and "think" you hit the orc's arm, because from your view, the tip of the sword touched the orc's arm, but this is most likely nothing more than your own preception and interpretation of the game's camera system that only keeps track of z-depth.

[Meteorus]

Gor_Na_Drak sorry but you're talking nonsense about melee dmg calculation. This is RPG after all, as Jono correctly noticed, here it doesn't make difference, where you hit. It is all decided by your skills. If you have 80% weapon skill, than you have 80% chance to hit FULL damage(Str+Weapon-AR). If you fail you'll deal minimum damage, just to make sure, that you've hit. If you have 100% skill, you'll ALWAYS hit FULL damage. BTW I dunno why it is called "Critical Damage". It is only full. Yes, in G1 it indeed was critical damage(because we've always were hitting full) and that pathetic chance(5%,10%) was critical.

[Gor_Na_Drak]

If you have 100% skill, you'll ALWAYS hit FULL damage.

No you will not ALWAYS hit full damage. I don't know what game you're playing, or maybe in the heat of battle you never bothered to notice, but you will, at times, hit for less, sometimes even for a lot less though it is rare. I've played this games to many times not to have noticed that this can and DOES occur. But there's no reason to argue. Get out your copy of the game. Start a new game from the beginning. Use marvin and cheat enough lp to get your character to 100%. 1h or 2h doesn't matter. Then cheat in the "ch" and train your chosen skill to 100%. (It's best to do it this way rather than changing your hitchance) Now play the whole game at 100% and pay attention if you get 100% damage each and every time. Notice I didn't tell you to cheat up your str. Why? Because I think the reason most people miss these fluctuations in damage is because usually when you have your % to 100% you also have a lot of str and a good weapon. So even if you didn't hit for full damage the extra damage you do with high str and a good weapon mask the fact that you didn't hit for full damage. So you'll see the fluctuations in damage done much better with your str low and a good stick in your hand. :D 100% is most of the time, not all of the time.

I don't care about calculations done on paper. I go by what I have seen in game. And I have seen fluctuations in the amount of damage done. By your reasoning there are only two possibilities. One extream or the other. At 80% I'll get full damage 80% of the time and only get minimum damage (and what that number is, is a mystery to me) 20% of the time with no inbetween. And yet I have battled many an npc and I have seen more than these two extreams when it comes to the amount of damage done. Why?

[_DieGo_]

Melee:

sword damage + str - enemy AR = total damage if your sword % is 100%. Sword % is an average amount of damage done. Meaning if you have 50 str and a weapon that does 50 damage and your sword % is at 50% you will inflict 50 damage on average. Sometimes you'll get only 10 damage, maybe even no damage, while sometimes you'll get the full 100 damage. It seems pretty random from my experience. But the higher the % the more often you'll get that critical hit. But even at 100% you will not get a critical hit 100% of the time. The above also works for melee weapons that require dex to weild. Though you need dex to use the weapon you still need str in order to increase damage. Extra dex will not help.
This thread interests me too, thx to all for the explanations, there were some things i didn't get. But still, one more thing...
What do you mean by "my sword %" ?? Do you mean that procent you have at weapons (that critical hit procent?) ??? Or you're talking about sth else... ? Or better said, explain me this one more time: "Sword % is an average amount of damage done"

About the sides damage... never noticed that, but i don't think it's for so much importance. If you don't run near your adversary and fight him face to face this don't matter anymore...

EDIT: Also, i think Sowilo got an explanation for the thing that there's not always 100% chance of critical hit at 100% learned.

...By DieGo...

[Articuno]

You may be right about body parts but I'm nearly sure about the weapon skills. Think of it this way you have 90 str and bearing 100 damage sword,your weapon skill is %100,your enemy has 40 protection against your weapon.That means you will make 150 damage with EVERY sucsessfull hit. That means all of your hits would make same damage.You can just try it anytime and see they are random.You don't make same damages all time.Also you cant make damage when your enemy is blocking even if you have 1000 str.

[WernerTWC]

So, here is what i found, a collection of formulas:
First, the damage calculation is a bit different in Gothic 1 and 2(NotR):

TD = Total Damage
WD = Weapon Damage
STR = Strenght
AP = Armor Protection of the enemy
NH = Normal Hit
CH = Critical Hit
1H = One Hander
2H = Two Hander
P = Percent on the Weapon-Skill (1H or 2H)


For Gothic 1, melee weapons:
NH: WD + STR - AP = TD
CH: WD x 2 + STR - AP = TD


Chance for a Critical Hit:
1H: lvl1: 5% for the ctitical hit, cost 10 LPs, lvl2: 10% cost 20 more LPs
2H: lvl1: 5%/30LP, lvl2: 10%/40LP
Bow: lvl1: 15%/10LP, lvl2: 30%/20LP
X-Bow: lvl1: 20%/10LP, lvl2: 40%/20LP


For Gothic 1, distance weapons:

NH: WD - AP = TD
CH: WD x 2 - AP = TD

(Dex only influence the distance range).


For Gothic 2 and NotR, melee weapons:

NH: (WD + STR - AP - 1) / 10 = TD, TD >= 5
CH: WD + STR - AP = TD, TD >= 5

Chance for a Critical Hit:
Is given by the talent-%.


For Gothic 2 and NotR, distance weapons:

WD + DEX - AP = TD

(STR, even if it's needed to equip the weapon, is not counted for the damage).