/SPOILERS/ Finally some proof that Gothic and Risen may be set in the same world!/SPOILERS/

[MartinX]

There's an "Engagement ring" in Steelbeard's treasure(In Treasure Isle) and it's description says: "A small ring with the name Greg engraved on it." Coincidence? I don't think so.

[MartinX]

Whoops. Just realised Steelbeard's first name is Gregorious. Ah well, guess I was too excited at first and didn't pay much attention.

[Drakenreiter]

What?! No, you were right. Steelbeard is without question Greg from Gothic II. And there's a lot more proof it's the same world. PB denies it, but I know it's true. Risen was planned to be Gothic IV at first, but since they gave up the IP for a while they had to change it. Did they really change it? Nah! They mostly masked it with a new look. They did try to move it away from that world with Risen 2, but it still has some links.

[Nisarg]

PB denies it, but I know it's true.

PB created both Gothic and Risen. PB says that they're two separate worlds. But I guess that the word of a few random players is more important than the ones who created the games in the first place. :rolleyes:

I don't get it - how can you even think that you're a greater authority than PB on this matter? Had you created the two games, I would have agreed with you. But you didn't. You're only one player out of thousands or millions who played the games. And yet you declare that they're the same world even though PB deny it.

What do Greg (NotR) and Steelbeard even have in common apart from being pirate captains with eyepatches and wearing red clothes? I should say that NH is more likely a young version of Greg - after all, it's more likely for brown hair to go blonde than it is for black hair. And Greg's face is about as narrow as NH's but Steelbeard has a much wider face. :rolleyes:

[foobar]

Ah, well, it’s just random pattern recognition. You know, like seeing the virgin Mary in your breakfast cereals. ;)

[Demonium]

there is also Jack and his lighthouse...Its the same Jack from Gothic 2 with the same lighthouse teleporting all over the world...

LOL...just grow up people...

[4ltair]

Not to mention that if you talk with the lone guy from Antigua (his name starts with M and he needs you to bring him some meat from Rick), he will tell you how, some time ago, Steelbeard's ship was destroyed and he ended up in some smugglers camp) ... Sounds familiar ?

[Bastardo]

This stuff is what they call references or easter eggs.
Yes, the story of the Risen franchise fits as a continuation of the Adanos ending in Gothic 3. Yes, you can sometimes spot mentions of places, people and events that mirror those in the Gothics. No, Gothic and Risen are not set in the same world.

Boggles the freaking mind, doesn't it? Well, not really.

[Maladiq]

Did anyone notice that Steelbeard and Greg have the same scar over their patched eyes?

[Bamfy]

Talking of easter eggs, I liked the one from the gate behind the waterfall, when you can say "tetriandoch". :D

[Godcrusher]

Talking of easter eggs, I liked the one from the gate behind the waterfall, when you can say "tetriandoch". :D

Yup, reminded me of good old G1.

[Maladiq]

Talking of easter eggs, I liked the one from the gate behind the waterfall, when you can say "tetriandoch". :D

I don't think a major character who looks almost identical with another major character from a different game, who dresses the same, has the same name and the same distinctive scar can be considered just an easteregg.

[Bastardo]

He does look exactly like you'd imagine an older Greg would look, but that doesn't really estabilish Risen into the Gothic canon just like that, does it?
Besides, if Gregorius is Greg, he is totally out of character.

[Bamfy]

I don't think a major character who looks almost identical with another major character from a different game, who dresses the same, has the same name and the same distinctive scar can be considered just an easteregg.

PB said that Risen and Gothic have different universes. So even if they look identical, they aren't the same.
You might take Steelbeard as a tribute for Greg from G2 but that would be all.

[UrukGox]

I do not care who said what, in my game he is Greg from Khorinis. $§p4


Captain Gregorius Emanuel Steelbeard is an old-school pirate: a man of honour with no manners. With his crew and his ship, the ‘Eleanor’, he used to plunder the shores of the Lost Realms and Khorini Island back in the old days, which is how he made a name for himself among the pirates.

[Godcrusher]

@uruk

You got that from a game or is it your imagination?

[UrukGox]

^
http://previews.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/2638/Risen-2-Dark-Waters/p1/

[The Ore Baron]

http://previews.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/2638/Risen-2-Dark-Waters/p1/

Captain Gregorius Emanuel Steelbeard is an old-school pirate: a man of honour with no manners. With his crew and his ship, the ‘Eleanor’, he used to plunder the shores of the Lost Realms and Khorini Island back in the old days, which is how he made a name for himself among the pirates.

This has always bothered me. Where exactly did this text originally come from? Deepsilver? PB? Why would they even mention this Khorini island? The name itself is weird - Khorini. It should be Khorinis, unless the text is translated from another language. Or maybe it's just a typo, who knows?

Either way, I don't think this should be treated as a serious evidence of a joint Gothic/Risen universe. Most likely, the Khorini island is an Easter Egg, an inside joke of PB. Although they could've done without it, seeing how touchy the fans get when discussing the possibility of the joint universe.

I wish PB would just make an official statement on this already. The lack of any official response from the developers could mean PB themselves are unsure whether or not they should confirm the theory. We'll see what the future brings - who knows, perhaps PB really will connect both series? :)

[Bamfy]

I'm pretty sure PB already said both series aren't in the same world.
As you said, most of them are just jokes.

[The Ore Baron]

I'm pretty sure PB already said both series aren't in the same world.

I saw this argument thrown around quite a lot in the forums, but it always seemed to me like something taken from an interview with one of the developers, who might not have been entirely sure about the future plans of the company or simply said that without giving it much thought.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting the theory of the joint universe - it seems rather silly and implausible to me, not to mention unprofessional ;) I'm just saying that an exact, clear statement made by PB should finally end discussions like this. Because even if they did say something about this in the past, it sure has done little, as several people are still strongly supporting the theory :)

[Nisarg]

Did anyone notice that Steelbeard and Greg have the same scar over their patched eyes?

Did you notice that the Greg has two different scars and the one above the patch is completely different, whereas Steelbeard has one continuous long scar? Or that NH has the same scar?


I don't think a major character who looks almost identical with another major character from a different game, who dresses the same, has the same name and the same distinctive scar can be considered just an easteregg.

I don't think that someone with blonde hair and narrow face looks all that similar to a wide face with black and grey hair.

[Maladiq]

I don't think that someone with blonde hair and narrow face looks all that similar to a wide face with black and grey hair.

Sure, maybe the hair color could be considered a distinctive trait, yet the face does resemble greg and is proportional to the weight gain. Also, hair tends to get lighter when you spend a lot of time in the sun, so naturally, in his plundering youth, greg had lighter hair. As he got old and fat, and started preferring pubs to ship battles, his hair might have returned to a more natural color.

[Nisarg]

You know, the wider face in Steelbeard does not look like the result of weight gain. Nor did Greg sound like a youth. Besides, he had a hat - why would his hair be blonde if he had a hat?

[Maladiq]

You know, the wider face in Steelbeard does not look like the result of weight gain. Nor did Greg sound like a youth. Besides, he had a hat - why would his hair be blonde if he had a hat?

I think Greg in g2 was around 45 years old. In Risen 2, Steelbeard is around 60 years old. Most people only start gaining weight after 40. Also, a pirate couldn't wear a hat on sea, seeing how the winds that push the boat forward can easily blow the hat off.

[Nisarg]

Also, a pirate couldn't wear a hat on sea, seeing how the winds that push the boat forward can easily blow the hat off.

So it is mentioned in Risen 2 that Steelbeard hasn't been sailing for several years? What about the journeys you undertake with him?

[Maladiq]

So it is mentioned in Risen 2 that Steelbeard hasn't been sailing for several years? What about the journeys you undertake with him?

He is fat. That means no action for him. Even if he sailed, he probably prefers his cabin rather than the deck. As for the journeys with the hero, those are a necessity. As a pirate he gained enough loot to make money not a necessity. Yet his existence is now threatened, so he must sail once more.

[Nisarg]

He is fat. That means no action for him. Even if he sailed, he probably prefers his cabin rather than the deck.

Perhaps being fat instead means an overindulgence in food and drink? And maybe age reduces his ability not to get fat?

And why the transition from a captain walking around on the deck to a captain sitting in his cabin? He doesn't look THAT old to me. Remember Jack in G2? He was much older, yet all he wanted was that he gets to sail again. Steelbeard doesn't even look that old to me.

Above all, blonde hair will likely darken to brown instead of pure black. Even if Greg's hair had darkened, it would have appeared brown instead of black. Like NH's hair. Oh yes, there's more similarity between NH (Risen 2) and Greg than Steelbeard and Greg. Narrow face, brown hair that could go blonde due to years of sailing. Ability to grow a beard. And of course the scar. All NH has to do is grow older, blonder, get a beard and a second scar on his right brow.


As for the journeys with the hero, those are a necessity. As a pirate he gained enough loot to make money not a necessity. Yet his existence is now threatened, so he must sail once more.

What pretty arguments. I'm already enjoying it more than harassing Danto on politics. :D

Don't you realise that the world in the Risen series is already fucked up as it is? Linking it with Gothic will only fuck up Gothic even more.

[glumetzul]

PB said that Risen and Gothic have different universes. So even if they look identical, they aren't the same.
You might take Steelbeard as a tribute for Greg from G2 but that would be all.

PB said a lot of things and not all were true. I think that it's obvious that PB planted hints to connect Gothic and Risen but they haven't made a clear decision. And since they didn't decide something for sure and they didn't even had any rights to Gothic untill this year they just denied any connection between this game.

Now based on the feedback for Risen 2 they will make that decision: either denying for eternity that they ever wanted to connect the two games or actually doing it.


And the discussion about Steelbeard being dark haired as opposed to Greg from Gothic is silly. Most characters in G3 didn't look at all like those from G1 and G2 so it shouldn't be expected for the 2012 Greg to look just like the 2003 Greg at all.

[Nisarg]

This morbid obsession with connecting two different series of games developed by the same developer strikes me as very disturbing. I would never have considered it so absolutely difficult to have considered Risen and Gothic games to belong to different series and not be related to each other at all.

If PB hadn't decided to make them two separate series, then they would never have confirmed or denied Risen being set in the same universe as Gothic. That they declared them to be two unconnected worlds shows that they do not intend Risen to be a continuation of Gothic. At most Risen 1 was a spiritual successor set in a different world.

As for G3, even though everyone only vaguely resembled (at most, Vatras and some others were completely different) their portrayals in G1 and G2, they were officially supposed to be the same guys. Not so for Greg and Steelbeard.

[Talek]

From my point of view, nowadays there is not a game series where the developers don't have the ability to retcon. With that in mind, there is nothing certain about the connection (or lack thereof) between R and G.

[glumetzul]

If PB hadn't decided to make them two separate series, then they would never have confirmed or denied Risen being set in the same universe as Gothic.

This is where I disagree. When fans keep getting evidence about possible connections, you either confirm or deny. If you shut up it's the same as confirming. So they decided to deny because not denying would mean raising expectations and maybe having JoWood sue them.

[Nisarg]

This is where I disagree. When fans keep getting evidence about possible connections, you either confirm or deny. If you shut up it's the same as confirming. So they decided to deny because not denying would mean raising expectations

I think you're right. Considering that even after a proper denial, they haven't succeeded in getting fans to stop associating Risen with Gothic. Even though the evidence is doubtful, to say the least.


and maybe having JoWood sue them.

Yes, we already have proof that JoWooD were ass enough to attempt something like that. But no sane lawyer acting in the interests of JoWooD would even consider doing that.

[Bastardo]

A: Risen and Gothic are connected! Why would the developers put such strong references in Risen if they weren't!?

B: The developers said the games are not connected.

A: Well, who cares about what the developers say, it's not like they made both games or anything.

[glumetzul]

A: Well, who cares about what the developers say, it's not like they made both games or anything.

I only have one question for you and I'd suggest you think a lot about the answer: Did Piranha Bytes ever lied to the public about something related to their games?

That aside, it's not like all the fans just went crazy without any reason. There are some hints that can just be considered easter eggs like the Tetriandoch bit or the music from the Faranga brothel. There are also some things that are just speculations like the two pirate captains called Greg from the two games.

But I can't consider being a coincidence the fact that one series ends with the gods being banished and another one starts with the gods being banished and bad things happening because of that. This doesn't necessarily mean that the games share the same universe. It means that the devs left a little reference for the case that they might wish to connect Gothic and Risen. And now they deny like hell that they ever though about that but I'm not certain that they really made a final decision.

And before you start with the "Risen was supposed to be G4 and that's why it starts up where G3 ended" I'll say that if they wanted to remove that connection from Risen it wouldn't have been that hard. But I think they left it there on purpose.

[Bastardo]

But I can't consider being a coincidence the fact that one series ends with the gods being banished and another one starts with the gods being banished and bad things happening because of that. This doesn't necessarily mean that the games share the same universe. It means that the devs left a little reference for the case that they might wish to connect Gothic and Risen. And now they deny like hell that they ever though about that but I'm not certain that they really made a final decision.

And before you start with the "Risen was supposed to be G4 and that's why it starts up where G3 ended" I'll say that if they wanted to remove that connection from Risen it wouldn't have been that hard. But I think they left it there on purpose.Ah, they haven't made a final decision, you think. That's not the same as the two games being in the same universe. Undecision is just what the word means. Besides you are making that up based on one little line of narration in Risen, so how is that relevant - no matter if PB has a track record as a liar or not?
That's almost as premature as jumping to conclusions because you found a ring in Risen with Greg written on it.
In your own fanon Risen and Gothic can take place on the same world and in mine they can take place on Mars, but canonically, they are separate worlds with no known contact between the two.
I'll say that if they wanted to remove that connection from Risen it wouldn't have been that hard. But I think they left it there on purpose.Nobody thinks the developers forgot the plot point in the game by mistake.

By the way Southern Isles are also mentioned in Risen, just to mention another reference. And the Sword Coast shares its name with the region around Baldur's Gate.

[Nisarg]

The only important relation that I can see in Risen (the first one) and Gothic is that their gameplay is more or less the same apart from combat and perhaps the quest log. At most, that qualifies Risen to be a spiritual successor to Gothic. But not a proper successor.

[JerrodAmolyan]

Funny though. Jack and his lighthouse: Gothic 2 has Jack and his lighthouse. Gothic 3 has Jack and his lighthouse. Risen 2 has JACK AND HIS LIGHTHOUSE, lol. It's probably one of those inside jokes of PB :P

Also, Gregorius is without a doubt the same character as Greg from G2. Ofcourse it's -NOT THE SAME-, but it's -The same-, sort of. Gregorius and Greg for short of gregorius. Same style of clothing, Same style of behavior, same style of weaponry, hat, face, everything. It's the same character, but more like a tribute to greg, or just PB liked greg from g2 and thought the same fellow would fit into the world of risen. So? He's a tribute, or an inside joke again. Or just laziness :D Only I liked Greg's voice actor in G2 alot more. Was more like a cunning pirate captain. Before everyone starts a flamewar against me, I'll list my points below:

1. Jack and his lighthouse is in ALL PB games, except gothic 1 and Risen 1 (Not sure about Risen 1, did it have Jack and lighthouse?) so it's probably again an inside joke of Piranha Bytes.
Also note, that Jack is ALWAYS an old Seadog, retired, has pest/bandit problem around his lighthouse, that you have to solve. Gothic 2, had bandits. Gothic 3, had "Bilge rats", Risen 2, he had a termite problem.

2. Greg from G2, is the same character, just set on a different world, so could call him a "tribute". He looks alike. Face, Hat, Clothes/armor, Sword, Style of speech and generally everything. Just looks a bit older. Perhaps he too, is an inside joke of PB. or lack of imagination, which I highly doubt. Or perhaps just couldn't think of anyone better fit for that role. (Also note that in both games, his ship was sank by the paladins/inquisitors. In Risen2, his FIRST ship was sank by Inquisitors, that is.)

3. The world's ARE NOT the same, they're ALIKE. EVERYTHING is ALIKE. Even the hero's personality is ALIKE to that of the Nameless Hero of Gothics, which is to say... no personality, until you give him one yourself. Which is pretty clever, and supports player-creativity and roleplaying possibilities, also does support replayability, since you can play PB games the differently everytime you click "new game".

So there.

[Nisarg]

Funny though. Jack and his lighthouse: Gothic 2 has Jack and his lighthouse. Gothic 3 has Jack and his lighthouse. Risen 2 has JACK AND HIS LIGHTHOUSE, lol. It's probably one of those inside jokes of PB :P

Don't forget Risen. The Jack-in-the-lighthouse in Risen also sold you a Black Pearl. :D


which is to say... no personality, until you give him one yourself.

Not quite. Both of them always struck me as sarcastic. And NH in the Gothic series was somewhat inconsistent - he had a lot less respect for a ghost who had done everything he could to seal evil in a temple, than he had for a lazy red-skirt fatass who allowed a novice to steal the monastery's best guarded artefact through sheer laziness.

[JerrodAmolyan]

AH yes. So -every damn PB game- except gothic 1, has Jack and his lighthouse. :D Remind me, what problem did Risen 1 jack have around his lighthouse? XDD

And yes, you're right. But some of the time you could actually choose to be Respectful, neutral/selfish, or disrespectful moneygrubbing bastard. Risen 2 though, you can't choose, unless you invest in silver tongue and intimidate. And even then, it's driving your own selfish desires.