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They really messed up the game when compared to Risen 1:
- the combat is very bad
- they removed the double-tap dodge/evade
- they removed climbing ability
- dialogue and quests are, frankly said, shit
- gameplay areas are really, really small, no real exploration
Only thing I can ask is how the fuck is this even possible? Considering how Risen 1 was received by the community how on Earth could anybody think it would be good idea to butcher the combat, exploration and climbing?
It seems to me you want more of the same.
Removing things isn't good, true. But they did other stuff.
I just quit playing it. The combat is abomination. There's not a single good thing to be said about it. Places like IGN scored this game too high.
BTW. My new 40€ (CE cost that much here in Finland) pirate flag pictured:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/aop13/40epirateflag.jpg
They really messed up the game when compared to Risen 1:
- the combat is very bad
- they removed the double-tap dodge/evade
- they removed climbing ability
- dialogue and quests are, frankly said, shit
- gameplay areas are really, really small, no real exploration
Only thing I can ask is how the fuck is this even possible? Considering how Risen 1 was received by the community how on Earth could anybody think it would be good idea to butcher the combat, exploration and climbing?
Combat is not bad, but it's worse then r1, that is true...atleast so far....
They did not remove climbing, although it's quite a bit limited, but it is there.
And about dialoques....dude, sorry, but it's lightyears better then risen 1. As i said, it's far from from mass effect if you ask me, but it is even farther (in good way) from r1. If you ask me, it's a huge improvement.
Hm yes, gameplay areas are not exactly huge. Didn't bother me so far though, still planty of things to explore.
I'm still not getting what did you guys find so awesome in r1...it was fine, but mostly dull. And to say dialogeus were better? Phhhhlease. :P
Do note about combat, i'm not really playing rpgs for the combat, i care more about npcs, story, exploring....and all that is imao better done in r2.
I did find annoying though, when patty and her daddy talks on ship, everytime i go there, they start same convo. Every bloody time. :D
Do note about combat, i'm not really playing rpgs for the combat
How do you even beat the game? $§p4
I do have to wonder. How far have you developed your combat skills? I mean in the previous pb games combat got a lot better once you had spent some skill points on proper atributes and skills.
Although I've heard this similar complaint from other sources. Lots of other reviews have also raised this issue. The combat isn't the strongest point, but has it ever been in pbs games?
.
The combat isn't the strongest point, but has it ever been in pbs games?
.
Gothic, Gothic 2?
Just my opinion though §chill
Nah, those didn't have exactly the pefect combat either. Ithink r1 was best in this aspect.
Yeah, even though dodge should have been Jump_and_direction_key instead of double_tap_direction_key. Too bad they didn't manage to fix the crowd-control problems from Risen. New animations and tricks is all well and fine but why remove good stuff from the combat?
From what I've read(I forgot the name of the site), the combat against npcs later on is quite fun. And I think it's true, since in all their games(except Gothic3) the combat system would be great after you've learned a few things.
And imo, risens combat system isn't that good. You can beat any npc from level 1. Gothic 1 combat was good and in G2 they really nailed it.
About the dialogue system: I haven't played enough to say if the writing is good or anything but saying it sucks compared to other games made by PB is plain wrong. They indeed improved it.
@dez, buy it. I don't think you'll be dissapointed.:)
Drakenreiter
27.04.2012, 20:46
And imo, risens combat system isn't that good. You can beat any npc from level 1. Gothic 1 combat was good and in G2 they really nailed it.
I kind of agree with this. No, I'm not saying Risen's combat system is bad. It just isn't all that good because of how overpowered that dodge was. I'm not sure if taking it out completely is a good thing in Risen 2, but they did add a lot of other skills (though I dislike the fact that everything is cooldown based now... it breaks the immersion a bit). The shield block was very useful in the first game against animals especially, but since they changed the theme of the game so much, thus taking out shields from the game, I guess it makes a bit of sense.
The combat isn't the strongest point, but has it ever been in pbs games?
.
Yes. In Risen Mother Fucking ONE, which had one of the best melee combat systems in any game.
InnerMoon
27.04.2012, 23:48
Yes. In Risen Mother Fucking ONE, which had one of the best melee combat systems in any game.
Ehhh NEIN! No! Combat in Risen was just a limited version of the Gothic 2 combat, which was actually one of the best combat system i've ever play. And, tell me something, were you able to fight agains strong opponents in Gothic 1 or 2? Only being a Mother Fucker Badass you could beat a dragon snapper in Gothic 2 or a Cuchilla in Gothic 1 at low levels.
MisterXYZ
28.04.2012, 00:29
Fighting with weapons, I preferred Risen.
The mage system was best in Gothic 2.
Generell controls I liked most Gothic, it wasn' confortable, but felt realistic (stretch your arm witch STRG and pick it up with UP).
The really sad thing is about the armor.
One of the defining characteristic of PB games was that armor is something you earn and it defines you social status. In R2 you just buy it from NPC, no requirements, no class restricted, no nothing. Not truly bad, just a sad development direction.
Combat in Risen was just a limited version of the Gothic 2 combat,
You mean expanded, surely? We have more moves in Risen than G2. The only problem is that you can hold up your shield forever against human opponents.
warstrike
28.04.2012, 05:17
Is there a demo? After reading the forums there`s no way i`m going to buy this without trying a demo first .
I am enjoying the game, I feel it is scoring far too low. Reviewer's seem to enjoy rating down game's that come from a smaller company, or company's that don't pay them to give high scores (Call of duty).
Is there a demo?
Not yet.
I am enjoying the game, I feel it is scoring far too low. Reviewer's seem to enjoy rating down game's that come from a smaller company, or company's that don't pay them to give high scores (Call of duty).
I don't know. It appears that Risen 2 is not everyone's taste. And it does seem rather confusing to me when one reviewer says that the quests and all are very good and another says very bad.:dnuhr:
Yeah reviews are very mixed. That's why i never give a flying sh*t about them. :P
And up till now, i'd say the only thing that was better in r1, is combat, but it is true that i did not upgrade it at all yet. But ambient, dialogs, npcs' personality, even quests, monsters...everything is better in r2, and many things quite a bit too.
I do like guns, they are not nearly as overpowered as i feared.
The only thing that i do find annoying from time to time is, that game can be quite hard at times, like, you have this quest to do, but you really lack of any sort of info, how to achive it. Right now, i'm at one such quest, where i talked to everyone, checked everything, and still not quite sure how will i achive this quest. I mean, you do know what is needed to be done, you just don't have a clue how to do it.
And i have a feeling many people will find this very annoying, like that RPGfan guy or who was it.
Still, i must admit i can't really understand people who think it's a step back from r1....i think it's several steps forward....
Oh yeah, and i like the minigames too. Not very important thing, but it is quite fun.
They do say that the graphics are inconsistent, and looking at the screenshots, I rather agree with them. I mean, it's all right if you're outsourcing shit but maybe you should review it before including it into the game. Half the barrels are low poly while the other half are not.
But the biggest bummer is this - we have those sand pebbles I was complaining about and yet look at those palm tree trunks. They'd look very low poly even in Gothic.
The only thing that i do find annoying from time to time is, that game can be quite hard at times, like, you have this quest to do, but you really lack of any sort of info, how to achive it. Right now, i'm at one such quest, where i talked to everyone, checked everything, and still not quite sure how will i achive this quest. I mean, you do know what is needed to be done, you just don't have a clue how to do it.
Sounds like some kind of puzzle? I like that sort of thing in games.
Also, one thing I forgot to talk about: You can't swim. Much more than the climbing mechanic, that to me was a huge deal in exploration. There's no swimming underwater to enter ruins or caves. If you hit deep water, you're teleported back to shore. No explanation or anything, it just fades to black and fades back in with you on the shore.
^...this sounds like an insult to fans of the old Gothic. There is not even the cinematic sequences as in the first Risen??
It's true, if you go to far into deep water, the screen turns black for a sec, and then you spawn just before the deep water. I prefere this in a way, because as much as like the r1 way, after several times, i found it annoying that i had to watch that animation, it was just loosing my time. But on the other hand, it is true that it is killing the immersion.
And about swimming....well, all the watter apart from sea, just isn't deep enough to swim in it anyway, so it's not all too terrible. But one does ask himself, if that was in game 12 years ago, why it cannot be nowdays. But again, for me atleast, it's not huge dealbreaker. Atleast not untill i see invisible barrier in the knee deep watter, like dragon age 1. Now THAT sucked....
Is it possible to drink grog in the middle of fighting, unlimited and without any pause or animation?
It's true, if you go to far into deep water, the screen turns black for a sec, and then you spawn just before the deep water. I prefere this in a way, because as much as like the r1 way, after several times, i found it annoying that i had to watch that animation, it was just loosing my time.
Yes, it does sound like a better solution, than always the same animation.
Is it possible to drink grog in the middle of fighting, unlimited and without any pause or animation?
Sadly, it's true, so if you stock a good amount of grog and rum, well, hello immortality ...
because as much as like the r1 way, after several times, i found it annoying that i had to watch that animation, it was just loosing my time.
I would have simply preferred a skippable cutscene. OTOH, a pirate game w/o swimming and diving - I think something's missing. Although the level design tries not to confront you overly with it.
How would it be if you were trying to drop into the sea over a cliff (are there cliffs overlooking deep water in Risen 2?) and NH just stopped himself at the last moment? Complete with an exclusive animation for this situation. And if he's about to wade into deep water, maybe he should just stop himself (as if he encountered an invisible barrier) muttering it's too deep?
The problem with Risen's tideworm (even though it was better than what they did in Risen 2) is that you wondered why it helped you ashore instead of killing you.
I would have simply preferred a skippable cutscene. OTOH, a pirate game w/o swimming and diving - I think something's missing. Although the level design tries not to confront you overly with it.
Well dunno, It's only fun to see that first one or two times, after that, the animation is just in my way. So for the most of the time, i'll skip it anyway, so they may just as well skip the animation alltogether.
It's not the best solution, but if i have to choose, i'd prefer what they already have. If i'll skip cutscene 95% of the time, then it's better if it's not there at all.
And yeah, swimming would be good....dunno really why they didn't include it. Can't say i really miss it, but, atleast they could have some nice underwater quests that way. Oh well....
How would it be if you were trying to drop into the sea over a cliff (are there cliffs overlooking deep water in Risen 2?) and NH just stopped himself at the last moment?
Marketing reasons, I suppose. If you make it so that you can walk into the water and over cliffs, they can still claim they have no evil "invisible walls".
The problem with Risen's tideworm (even though it was better than what they did in Risen 2) is that you wondered why it helped you ashore instead of killing you.
Maybe it has refined taste. :D
Well dunno, It's only fun to see that first one or two times, after that, the animation is just in my way.
How many times do you try? After I knew it was impossible, I just stopped trying. No reason to see the animation a 100 times. Or did you think that if you're just persistent enough, the game would finally give in and reveal a secret underwater world to you? ;)
c0d3m45t3r
28.04.2012, 13:39
ok from what I've seen of people playing Risen is amazing right on par with risen 1 and gothic 2. I love it. Quests are doable even if you don't have the quest yet, world is very detailed and rewards exploration. Quests are difficult and combat is also rather difficult. Gold is not exessive and sometimes even in short supply.
It's a great gothic/risen game and I'm getting it. Reading these threads here you wouldn't think these are the people who are fans of those games like gothic and risen. Whats going on? I think this is exactly what I wanted being a massive gothic 2 fan.
Foobar, i was just walking around the beach many times, and it happened quite often that i would manage to go too far quite a few times. It's nothing horrible, it's just that i prefer this faster way in r2. But as i said, it's not the perfect as it is. I guess it could have been done better.
And as they said, giant worm who grabs you and throw you on the beach, isn't much more beliveable either.
c0d3m45t3r,
i'd say it's not on par with r1, it's quite a bit better, except combat maybe. But even here, you have intrsting things like guns and dirty tricks and stuff, wich makes combat more intresting.
Also, haven't you learned already, that everytime PB listens to fans, and do exactly that, people get angry anyway? Same goes for other devs too, btw.:P
It's like star trek. Everyone wants knew tv show, but as soon as it gets out, die hard fans will have a lot to complain about. :P
Reading these threads here you wouldn't think these are the people who are fans of those games like gothic and risen. Whats going on? I think this is exactly what I wanted being a massive gothic 2 fan.
I'm a fan, I'm just not blind.
(no offense to the buy everything fans)
Am i suppose to take from this, that if i actually like r2 a lot (much better then r1), that i'm blind and "buy everything" fan? I'd love to hear more about this....
The core gameplay is very good. The game just sucks you in. Kudos to Bastian Seelbach, the music is on par with the established KaiRo/PB sound. Most of the dialogs are quite hilarious, very nice work. It's a pretty awesome action-RPG.
...but Piranhas will never score big, if they keep leaving out basic features and neglecting huge graphical bugs.
1. I understand, that the gameplay doesn't involve the need for swimming and historically most pirates could not swim, but it DOES NOT MATTER. When you have a big area of water in a videogame, it is common sense for every player to go into the water and see, what's underneath. So when these people are immediately teleported back to the shore (by the way one of the worst implementations ever), they will just go online and post something like "this game sucks, you can't even swim", which is BAD PR.
2. The speedtree in the game is just plain broken. It's distracting so much, that many people just can't get over it and stop playing. And of course they share their thoughts in forums, again BAD PR. And no, THESE ARE NOT MINOR GLITCHES! It's in your face from the very first moment: shapeshifting/popping trees, inflating/deflating bushes, vibrating leaves and such. How can something like that pass the quality control?
For me the other elements of the game outshine these issues, but many people online are giving the bad word of mouth. Even if the other 99% of the game is good, these will haunt the history of Risen 2 forever (I'm not expecting any impovement). Remember the ending of Mass Effect 3?
MrAnomaly
28.04.2012, 20:46
I absolutely agree about the swimming. It has always been a pet peeve of mine in gaming when you can't swim, without explanation. Especially if it is just a random teleport or, even worse, a huge invisible wall (talk about loss of immersion). This is one thing that I knew about since launch, and dreaded (still bought the game though).
It's just...weird, to be able to walk around in the water or backing up away from an enemy, only to be instantly teleported to the shore with no cutscene or anything. Even adding a cutscene similar to Risen 1 would have helped, but there has already been countless times I would have loved to jump into the water and swim over to some awesome looking rocks nearby, but alas, I could not, and I felt the heavy weight of disappointment on my chest because of it.
The core gameplay is very good. The game just sucks you in. Kudos to Bastian Seelbach, the music is on par with the established KaiRo/PB sound. Most of the dialogs are quite hilarious, very nice work. It's a pretty awesome action-RPG.
...but Piranhas will never score big, if they keep leaving out basic features and neglecting huge graphical bugs.
1. I understand, that the gameplay doesn't involve the need for swimming and historically most pirates could not swim, but it DOES NOT MATTER. When you have a big area of water in a videogame, it is common sense for every player to go into the water and see, what's underneath. So when these people are immediately teleported back to the shore (by the way one of the worst implementations ever), they will just go online and post something like "this game sucks, you can't even swim", which is BAD PR.
2. The speedtree in the game is just plain broken. It's distracting so much, that many people just can't get over it and stop playing. And of course they share their thoughts in forums, again BAD PR. And no, THESE ARE NOT MINOR GLITCHES! It's in your face from the very first moment: shapeshifting/popping trees, inflating/deflating bushes, vibrating leaves and such. How can something like that pass the quality control?
For me the other elements of the game outshine these issues, but many people online are giving the bad word of mouth. Even if the other 99% of the game is good, these will haunt the history of Risen 2 forever (I'm not expecting any impovement). Remember the ending of Mass Effect 3?
I just have to agree there. It does not bother ME that much at all, but i know it will many. Inflating plants especially.
Same with swimming.
And yeah, people totaly forgot how insanly awesome was 99% of the mass effect 3, and all the most remember is, the poor ending. Atleast i hope they can deal with vegetation thing. And maybe add swimming in one way or another. In any case, it would be cool to hear from them, just why did they refuse to implement swimming.
c0d3m45t3r
29.04.2012, 03:40
it's funny actually. I started playing Mass Effect 3 but it couldn't keep me interested with it's handholding and 0 bugs and perfect polished. Sure I'll finish it eventually to see the trilogy end but there is no exploration and I can pretty much guess whats coming after the next airlock.
As for not being able to swim. Well that does not bother me at all, where would you like to swim anyway it's open ocean all around you and as I basically understood there are no major inland water areas as these are all rather small islands so there is no need to swim like in g2 where you could find the bandits hideout below the town or something.
Graphical bugs (growing bushes lol and other pop-in stuff) is indeed noticeable and can take you right out of the game, I blame this on the "new" tech. I realize that using the latest and best engines and stuff is "cool" but I think most players would take solid good visuals over the "new thing" that being said, I'm willing to overlook those graphical issues because I absolutely love the world, I think Risen 2 will be the best pirate themed game I've ever played.
One thing I did notice though:
* Ships in docs look really static, I don't think they move or sway in the water at all and that is kind of unnatural. Ships should sway with waves and move a little, also sails should move in the win.
I really wish they would release mod-tools or level editor or the engine thing that would allow the community to create, modify and do all sorts of fun things with the game. Imagine we creating content for this type of game, I know I would love to create a scenario or a quest or even my own island and upload it for you guys to try out. Can we make a petition or does anyone know any of the dev team and could suggest this, that would make my year :D
I'm a fan, I'm just not blind.
(no offense to the buy everything fans)
Am i suppose to take from this, that if i actually like r2 a lot (much better then r1), that i'm blind and "buy everything" fan? I'd love to hear more about this....
No. You agree that there are a few problems here and there, even though they don't bother you much. So you aren't a blind fan. "Buy everything"? Yes, maybe you are.
I just have to agree there. It does not bother ME that much at all, but i know it will many. Inflating plants especially.
Same with swimming.
And yeah, people totaly forgot how insanly awesome was 99% of the mass effect 3, and all the most remember is, the poor ending. Atleast i hope they can deal with vegetation thing. And maybe add swimming in one way or another. In any case, it would be cool to hear from them, just why did they refuse to implement swimming.
I think it's human nature. You see how good, how perfect it could have been, yet it isn't. So, you complain about it. Different people have a different tendency to praise.
As for not being able to swim. Well that does not bother me at all, where would you like to swim anyway it's open ocean all around you and as I basically understood there are no major inland water areas as these are all rather small islands so there is no need to swim like in g2 where you could find the bandits hideout below the town or something.
There could have been. If they had implemented swimming, they'd have tried to make it useful (like in G1/G2) too. But they decided not to implement swimming, so the level designers naturally did not create places where swimming would be useful.
I blame this on the "new" tech.
Since, you're new to the forums (at least, going by your postcount, no idea how long you've been lurking), I'll spare you the usual jibes.
But I request you not to blame the new tech. It is bad implementation that's to blame. The growing vegetation or the flickering shadows are not new tech. The fog is - and at least going by the screenshots, it looks really good. The vegetation problems are probably the result of 'consolisation', they're desperate to squeeze more performance. So they came up with this weird idea. IMO, it looks worse than popping.
The tech used for shrinking or growing vegetation was there even in Gothic 2 but was untested and could only be activated in Gothic.ini. Depending on the implementation, it might very well even have been there in older games than Gothic.
I really wish they would release mod-tools or level editor or the engine thing that would allow the community to create, modify and do all sorts of fun things with the game. Imagine we creating content for this type of game, I know I would love to create a scenario or a quest or even my own island and upload it for you guys to try out. Can we make a petition or does anyone know any of the dev team and could suggest this, that would make my year :D
They confirmed that they will not release any sort of mod-tools. Why they don't want to extent the lifespan of their game this way is beyond me. The release of Nehrim probably bumped up sales for Oblivion slightly. But then, they didn't like to fix much in Risen either. Look at the changelog of the Risen Unofficial Patch.
No. You agree that there are a few problems here and there, even though they don't bother you much. So you aren't a blind fan. "Buy everything"? Yes, maybe you are.
.
Sorry, but i don't agree myself being a "buy everything" guy.
I used to be great fan of Serious sam games, and when i heard how ss2 is going to look and be played, i didn't buy it, because even if i am a fan of the series, i just couldn't find myself intrested enough to play it.
I was also a huge fan of Dragon age origins, and when i looked at da2 and especially after trying demo, i just didn't find it intresting at all. So i didn't buy it.
And if risen 2 was tipical fantasy game, i think there is a good chance i'd skip that one too. I'm getting really bored from traditional lotr rpgs, and r2 was promising new settings, new monsters, even diffrent combat (sabers, guns, shotguns, dirty tricks, parrots, monkies,.....). Even if it has some flows, even with that, to me, this game is far better then r1, wich was far from perfect either.
But what i am trying to say is, game was promising a lot, and it dilievered a lot too, with minor problems here and there, but lets not pretend it wasn't like that with every freakin PB title anyway.
Like, i couldn't even play G2 NOTR because it simply refuses to run after i put servis pack 2 (did work before that though) on xp wins, or even later on vista, i even encounter game breaking bugs in g1 and g2 iirc, g2 when i first played it, ran like shit.....it was FAR from perfect. Yet none of you really complained about it that much either.
So if i forgave g1 and g2 all these things and many others, why should i be so harsh on r2, when the core game is VERY fun?
As i said, if it was tipical LOTR setting, i'd probably skip it....
It is bad implementation that's to blame. The growing vegetation or the flickering shadows are not new tech. The fog is - and at least going by the screenshots, it looks really good. The vegetation problems are probably the result of 'consolisation', they're desperate to squeeze more performance. So they came up with this weird idea. IMO, it looks worse than popping.
The fog is awesome!!! Probably the best I've ever seen in a videogame.
The growing bushes cannot be described with anything else than pure programming bug. It doesn't make sense and it looks just bad. Same for the speedtree, but I'm not sure, if it's the problem of the speedtree codebase or not, but other games with speedtree don't have this, so I'm guessing Piranhas are the ones who are responsible.
I just can't understand what's going on. All trees have 3 LoDs. Which is okay theoretically, the problem is, these 3 forms don't overlap. Different angle, different number of leaves, like 3 distinct trees. It's not that you get a more dense, more detailed form when you approach a tree, every iteration is vastly different, and that's what makes a weird popping effect.
Sorry, but i don't agree myself being a "buy everything" guy.
To account for that possibility, I said that maybe you're a "buy everything" guy. The 'maybe not' was implied.
The growing bushes cannot be described with anything else than pure programming bug. It doesn't make sense and it looks just bad.
Hmm, this is a new idea to me. I still that it was intentionally done to let the bush look more detailed from the distance. But yes, it could be a programming bug with 3D sprites. But I don't recall seeing it in Risen, do you?
All trees have 3 LoDs. Which is okay theoretically, the problem is, these 3 forms don't overlap. Different angle, different number of leaves, like 3 distinct trees. It's not that you get a more dense, more detailed form when you approach a tree, every iteration is vastly different, and that's what makes a weird popping effect.
That's exactly the problem with popping. If it only looked like a slight change (armour in G1/G2), then a lot of people wouldn't even have noticed it. Those who would (like me) wouldn't have minded it at all. It's the sudden change in shape that annoys people. Such popping should be reserved for ghosts or haunted items only.
A lot of people have things to say about R2 already, I guess if the feedback thread is still empty it's because everyone's waiting to beat the game first? Well the germans didn't wait, but it's better to wait.
Any one knows about angry joe? I've agreed with every single one of his reviews and each of the points he mentions! It's the only one who never bullshitted me. He called Risen 1 on xbox an rpg so bad you'll want to jump off a cliff, the name of the review is "worst xbox rpg ever?", and I have to agree. Anyone knows if he'll do a Risen 2 review soon? Maybe he'll wait for the console vesion.
Have you people been playing the DLC's? And if someone who preordered the game didn't get them, could he mention it please? And could you also mention what reseller you've used (wether you got it or not)? I'd really would be pissed if I finally preorder the console version and don't get the free DLC. Really very very pissed...
Thanks! §wink
I think that angry joe does not have enough capacity for this kind of games. In the R1 he could not find a better way but the broom monastery, and in his review he said that R1 is stupid and boring game because he was forced to clean. Maybe his reviews are interesting for some simpler games, but not for multi-linear RPG with c&c gamplay.
I guess if the feedback thread is still empty it's because everyone's waiting to beat the game first?
I already finished it and had planned to write a review for the WoR anyway. But I want to... digest it first. Give it some time, let the impressions sink in. The game is already out anyway so there's no point in rushing it.
With all PB games so far, we received preview version before the release. We could write a review that was published on release date and were already prepared to give support for the other players in our forums. We already knew the game when it came out. This time, DS did not grant us preview versions. They were probably afraid of what we would write in that review. We still got normal retail copies of the game at release. That way, we can still take over some of the support for R2 and save them some money, I guess. Takes some time to get to know the game, though. And personally, I'm in no rush to shoulder support for Deep Silver. The review comes first. But it will still take some time.
Any one knows about angry joe? I've agreed with every single one of his reviews and each of the points he mentions!
Dude, Angry Joe is an average north-american console player. For the record he believes Mass Effect is a roleplaying game. :) He needs flashy stuff and strict linearity in games. A typical jungle segment of Risen 2, where you can actually get lost, would scare him away forever. No problem with that, he's got plenty of games to play, and I actually laughed on some of his reviews (I mean they were funny).
Drakenreiter
29.04.2012, 14:45
I don't agree with every review made by Angry Joe. The Risen review was especially stupid, though playing the Peasant's Edition of the game affected his opinion about it a lot I guess. He does have some really nice reviews in general though... something you wouldn't expect from a gamer like him.
Am i suppose to take from this, that if i actually like r2 a lot (much better then r1), that i'm blind and "buy everything" fan? I'd love to hear more about this....
haha. I said no offense in small print. :D
Don't make me walk the plank.
I beat the game in 21 hours on Medium.
I have never before played any game with this bad combat. Gothic 3 comes close but can't quite match this.
You literally have minimal control over the character during combat. All animations are atrociously long and you can't interrupt them once you have initiated them. You are literally locked to watch what your character does with no control over it. The shittiest part is that most enemy combat animations are much shorter than the player characters so they can hit 2-3 times in same time span as the player hits once. Some player damage animations also last longer than enemy hit animations so enemies can hit you repeatedly while your character is locked in the damage animation.
I played as melee character almost all the way to the end, had Blades 9 with all the perks except Swordmaster that requires Blades 10 so I had invested 20k+ Glory and shitload of gold to melee combat and yet it sucked balls. I even got 60-100 damage unique sword (IIRC Wave Dancer).
Then I got nice rifle as quest reward and decided to test it despite not having but a single point of Glory or coin of gold to Firearms skill and perks. I was dismayed to see that my character had much better damage output and easier combat with the rifle despite the fact that I had invested absolutely nothing to the related skills or perks.
Bottom line:
The combat in this game is totally unbalanced and broken, it's simply ridiculously bad.
haha. I said no offense in small print. :D
Don't make me walk the plank.
I'm confused, why several people are anwearing the same quoth, are there people with split personality problem? j/k ofc :P
Yeah i know, but your post had to me that "i'm actually insulting you (well, not really) and then i'll say sorry to try to trick you into thinking that is not the case" tone. :P J/k :P
Anyway, i'm almost finished with the game and will try to post some comments on the entire game...
Bottom line:
The combat in this game is totally unbalanced and broken, it's simply ridiculously bad.
Or rather you don't get it. I've only Blade 6 and the appropriate skills for this level, armed with a simple epee, and I have no problem knocking down NPCs (who instantly killed me at the beginning) on hard difficulty. It's a matter of timing. Also never fired a pistol, I'm keeping that for another walkthrough. But how did you beat the game in 21 hours? I'm at 17 hours and only visited 2 islands + just got in Caldera... :dnuhr:
Or rather you don't get it. I've only Blade 6 and the appropriate skills for this level, armed with a simple epee, and I have no problem knocking down NPCs (who instantly killed me at the beginning) on hard difficulty. It's a matter of timing. Also never fired a pistol, I'm keeping that for another walkthrough. But how did you beat the game in 21 hours? I'm at 17 hours and only visited 2 islands + just got in Caldera... :dnuhr:
Nice job ignoring the fact that you don't only combat against NPCs but against creatures too. Enemies like The Guardian are very hard to beat with melee (unless you spam Provisions, Grog and Rum) but really easy with Firearms even if you have absolutely nothing invested in Firearms related skills.
I'm confused, why several people are anwearing the same quoth, are there people with split personality problem? j/k ofc :P
Yeah i know, but your post had to me that "i'm actually insulting you (well, not really) and then i'll say sorry to try to trick you into thinking that is not the case" tone. :P J/k :P
Anyway, i'm almost finished with the game and will try to post some comments on the entire game...
Liked how you said that, I laughed for quite a while :D
Really though, I really dislike somethings about it so am just waiting for a demo and if its a go then a really good price drop. Plus, the video card is too old so would probably be going with Onlive (which isn't available yet).
Yeah, the price is very high, you have a point there...
Risen 2 is awesome!!
I loved Risen 1 on PC but was slightly small in terms of number of towns and chapter balance.
Risen 2 addresses these and adds pirates! But keeps the great atmosphere and has a good fun story.
Only downside is the dumbing down of combet (bad move trying to appeal to the idiots!)
So therefore I rate them both the same. Both excellent.
darkedone02
01.05.2012, 12:38
After playing Risen 2 for quite some time this is what I think compared to Risen 1.
-The combat is way better in Risen 1, Risen 2 combat system is abysal that makes me rage. No dodging, your parry is limited to humans and not creatures, creatures will most likely beat the living shit out of you because of how they can take you down and how fast they can attack you. Whoever develop this combat system really needs to be shot 4 times with a fucking 1760's musket or get fired for failure of making decent combat system.
-The game does not have a great magic system like in Risen 1, Risen 1 i could shoot fireballs and lightning and everything, in Risen 2... magic is weak and limited.
-the mini-games are a pain in the ass, drinking contest is hard to win unless you cheat, same with the shooting gallery. I have to speedhack my game to actually slow down the speed cause of how fast it is.
-Animations is quite ok compired to the overused animations in Risen 1, but it still needs alot of work. I'm thinking the company does not get cash and will end up getting bankrupted pretty soon compaired to how bad Risen 2 is getting.
-as a pirate theme game, your more of a landlubber when there is no sea battles in this game... you expect to travel the seas and steal ships, but nope... none of that in this game.
-the storyline compared to the last, the last in my opinion is kinda bit stronger here and there but risen 2 storyline got something that i don't know about... who the hell is mara? i don't remember her from risen 1... all i know is i killed a titan and an bad inquisitor... sadly this game got somewhat boring after reaching the 3rd island for the 3rd part of the storyline for me. The combat which suppose to be important in this game along with the storyline of this game seem to turn this game into a 5/10 for lower. Makes me wonder why i hardly ever heard of PB when they make bad games like Gothic 4. Are they trying to be as bad and evil like EA and Activision?
Makes me wonder why i hardly ever heard of PB when they make bad games like Gothic 4.
Ok nisarg, see what i meant, when i said many people still thinks PB made Arcania. How much did it took from the time i told you that today, 2 hours? If people blaim them for thins they have nothing to do with it, are you then really sure they would not blaim them for poor editor, if it was done by fans? Meh, why am i even trying, people are obviously too lazy to even check who made the game, before they bitch...
@darkedone02
So for the last time, Pirahna Bytes HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GOTHIC 4 AKA ARCANIA. Spellbound made G4, not Piranha Bytes. PB had absolutely NOTHING to do with g4. G4 had diffrent developer and different publisher. Is that REALLY that hard to understand? Geez...
You are right about combat, but imo, you are totaly wrong about story.
Also, shooting games some people may find hard, but i found drinking games much easier.
Dunno about sea battles and stuff...this is rpg, not sure how much i'd like to see that anyway. And i don't see how you could do a massive ship vs ship battle, it would turn more into hack and slash game, and PB games are beyond that.
Oh and also, you DO have sea battles (remember the final battle, with that monster?). Just as well, you DO get to still the ship. You sure you finished the game?
Nichtswisser
05.05.2012, 02:20
Ehhh NEIN! No! Combat in Risen was just a limited version of the Gothic 2 combat, which was actually one of the best combat system i've ever play. And, tell me something, were you able to fight agains strong opponents in Gothic 1 or 2? Only being a Mother Fucker Badass you could beat a dragon snapper in Gothic 2 or a Cuchilla in Gothic 1 at low levels.
Jein, it was a little simplified compared to Gothic 1+2, but the trade off was that it was a lot more fluid without loosing too much deep and skill reliance. So overall it was quit good and fun.
@Topic
Yes, Risen 2 is really really bad. The world is far less believable than in previous games and the combat is screwed up beyond believe. I would have thought that after the debacle that was Gothic 3, they would have learned that what is basically one-button-combat with stun lock is crap and won't be well received by the community. I mean next to all the bugs and the overall unfinished feel of the game (pre-beta at best) the combat was one of the most criticized things in Gothic 3. Now with Risen 2 the stupified one button combat with stun lock is back. How was it again? History teaches us that history teaches us nothing? PB at least apparently learned nothing from their history.
Yes, Risen 2 is really really bad. The world is far less believable than in previous games and the combat is screwed up beyond believe. I would have thought that after the debacle that was Gothic 3, they would have learned that what is basically one-button-combat with stun lock is crap and won't be well received by the community. I mean next to all the bugs and the overall unfinished feel of the game (pre-beta at best) the combat was one of the most criticized things in Gothic 3. Now with Risen 2 the stupified one button combat with stun lock is back. How was it again? History teaches us that history teaches us nothing? PB at least apparently learned nothing from their history.
Learn parry and riposte and you'll feel like in AC. It's simply funny to punch someone in the face after he tries to hit you.:D
Combat against npcs isn't that bad after all, I actually enjoy it. Against monsters still is fucked up though.
Bastardo
05.05.2012, 09:46
I don't know what they were thinking. I'm all for different, but Risen 2 isn't "different". The game is still very easily comparable to any of the Gothics.
Just worse, overall, because most things that they kept weren't done gracefully at all.
Delicieuxz
05.05.2012, 10:28
There are very few games that rival the quality of Gothic 1 & 2, so saying that it's worse than those doesn't necessarily imply a shortcoming.
I'm having fun with Risen 2 so far, I'm more into it than I was into Risen 1. The negative reviews don't add up with what I'm playing, some of which is probably due to players not understanding the combat, as is seen to be commonplace on this forum.
Bastardo
05.05.2012, 11:49
I'm having fun with Risen 2 so far, I'm more into it than I was into Risen 1. The negative reviews don't add up with what I'm playing, some of which is probably due to players not understanding the combat, as is seen to be commonplace on this forum.I'm having some fun too, yet I still have to ask myself "What were they thinking?" every few features, or lack thereof, that I come across.
Jein, it was a little simplified compared to Gothic 1+2, but the trade off was that it was a lot more fluid without loosing too much deep and skill reliance. So overall it was quit good and fun.
I disagree slightly. Once you unlocked more attacks, Risen had more moves than Gothic 1 and 2, at least in the melee. And I personally found it just as deep, except the possibility of holding up an indestructible shield forever.
I disagree slightly. Once you unlocked more attacks, Risen had more moves than Gothic 1 and 2, at least in the melee. And I personally found it just as deep, except the possibility of holding up an indestructible shield forever.
It would be really a nice animation to see the shield fall apart bit by bit during the combat. :)
Drakenreiter
06.05.2012, 08:37
There are very few games that rival the quality of Gothic 1 & 2, so saying that it's worse than those doesn't necessarily imply a shortcoming.
I'm having fun with Risen 2 so far, I'm more into it than I was into Risen 1. The negative reviews don't add up with what I'm playing, some of which is probably due to players not understanding the combat, as is seen to be commonplace on this forum.
Pretty much this. I actually like the combat a lot, even against monsters and I can't understand what's so bad about it. And the game overall is much more enjoyable than the first Risen was. Again, I can't understand the complaints. It's a PB game through and through. It's a fantastic game and in my opinion, really close to the first 2 Gothic games.
Demonium
06.05.2012, 12:36
I say lets make a petition asking for a real RPG game like Gothic 1/2 once was.
They make only one type of games...For 15 years now. They should already have the experience to master what they do.
Instead of an evolution and improvement during all these years, we have worse quality games everytime...
I cant really understand all the excitement about Risen 2. It is just released. If you spend another 10 hours in the game, you will realize that
Risen 1 was far better...Combat, graphics, gameplay...Everything else like fancy pirates and muskets wont impress me nor make up my mind about the overall quality of Risen 2.
It is plain stupid how some people even compare Risen 2 combat with Risen 1. Pirates, Gunpowder and muskets seems to excite kids so much these days.
Remove those 3 things from Risen 2 and it becomes a bad project...that really makes me wonder...
Is this trully the most expensive project PB has ever done? Ridiculous...
I feel sorry for PB. Fans have asked for something different and they delivered. And still, the people still whine cuz it's not what they wanted.
As the name implies, it ain't Gothic so stop bitchin around and give them a break, R2 is a fun game.
Fans have asked for something different
Did they? Or should I say: did we?
Because I myself don’t recall having asked for something like that. I would have been satisfied by slowly but steadily improving and enhancing the Gothic concept. I never wanted a radical, mind-blowing revolution or a radical change in setting. Such things – often asked for by commercial reviewers who need sensations to gain readers – only tend to “modernise” good concepts to the point where they break apart.
Well, I have exagerated, "fans" in this case meaning the users of this forum.
I'm pretty sure there was a topic asking about the direction of the next pb game and most said they want something new. And even after the release of Risen, many were complaining about Risen being too similar to Gothic.
Again though, this is what the english part asked for so i'm sorry for my generalised view of point.
Curiosity: if it wasn't a sequel to Risen but a new ip, would you enjoy the game more?
Nichtswisser
06.05.2012, 16:04
I feel sorry for PB. Fans have asked for something different and they delivered. And still, the people still whine cuz it's not what they wanted.
As the name implies, it ain't Gothic so stop bitchin around and give them a break, R2 is a fun game.
I somewhat doubt that many asked them to take all those poor design ideas and simplifications from Arcania, I'm rather sure it's quite the opposite from what most wanted them to do.
Curiosity: if it wasn't a sequel to Risen but a new ip, would you enjoy the game more?
I don't really care what IP or setting they use next. What I care about is that they again make a game that is fun from start to end. The last time they managed that was 9 years ago. And by the gods, hopefully they throw that awful Risen 2 combat system in the trash bin for crappy ideas.
Curiosity: if it wasn't a sequel to Risen but a new ip, would you enjoy the game more?
No. By the way: It basically is a new IP. Just some names have been carried over, including the title. ;)
And just for the record, I’m not saying that R2 is “really bad”. I am saying that I did not ask for “something new”. The game itself is solid but nothing special. It has strengths but also weaknesses and was fun to play. However, it cannot compare to G1 or G2.
As for the stuff that is new (pirates, firearms... and... erm... what else?): First, it’s nothing really new. Just new for PB games. And second, nothing of that matters to me. I neither need nor want pirates or firearms. But I also do not care if they’re there. It just makes things different. And I am past the age where you believe different is always better and too young to think that different is always worse.
I somewhat doubt that many asked them to take all those poor design ideas and simplifications from Arcania, I'm rather sure it's quite the opposite from what most wanted them to do..
Ya indeed some things are stupid, like no animations for drinking and all that,the magical reload system of the weapons and I don't what other things. Still, I ignored these "problems" and still enjoyed it.:)
I don't really care what IP or setting they use next. What I care about is that they again make a game that is fun from start to end. The last time they managed that was 9 years ago. And by the gods, hopefully they throw that awful Risen 2 combat system in the trash bin for crappy ideas.
I hope to keep the parry/riposte thingie though. That was really fun.
@ Foobar, then I don't understand your problem. You said you had fun but you can't compare it to G1 or G2, which is true. So? You still enjoyed the game.
SacredGamer
06.05.2012, 16:24
Seems I'll be avoiding this game.
Looked uninteresting front he beginning anyway.
Delaying Consoles wasn't the best move:dnuhr:
Pretty much this. I actually like the combat a lot, even against monsters and I can't understand what's so bad about it. And the game overall is much more enjoyable than the first Risen was. Again, I can't understand the complaints. It's a PB game through and through. It's a fantastic game and in my opinion, really close to the first 2 Gothic games.
+1... I fully agree. But the old Gothic games are made much more detailed, there they are taking care of the tiniest things, and these little things are rising Gothic from other games.
R2 looks unfinished and rough, compared to G2, IMO.... Eg: In G2, when I transform into a wolf or scavenger, other animals can notice me, and they can kill me. And in R2 none of the wild animals pay attention to my monkey. He can jump on alligator and the alligator will not respond... And R2 is full of such negligence.
sry for my bad english:gratz
It is plain stupid how some people even compare Risen 2 combat with Risen 1. Pirates, Gunpowder and muskets seems to excite kids so much these days.
You do not have to play with the musket. Choose any of the other skills if you so bothered by musket rifles.
Did they? Or should I say: did we?
I never wanted a radical, mind-blowing revolution or a radical change in setting..
For me this setting is good and refreshing .... breaks the monotony of forced medieval settings ... with dragons and fireballs.
@ Foobar, then I don't understand your problem. You said you had fun but you can't compare it to G1 or G2, which is true. So? You still enjoyed the game.
Hint: Fun is not binary.
Bastardo
06.05.2012, 16:49
What's so "different" in Risen 2 from the rest of PB games? They added some good and bad stuff and removed a shitload of good stuff. But the Gothic/Risen concept is still very much there, although in a post-molestation kind of mood.
Stalagmite
06.05.2012, 18:49
So the real question, did they dumb down the mathematics and character stats for this or is it more or less the same, just structured differently?
What I don't want is Risen 2: Skyrim.
Hint: Fun is not binary.
I guess i'm just more casual.
Bastardo
06.05.2012, 20:52
So the real question, did they dumb down the mathematics and character stats for this or is it more or less the same, just structured differently?
What I don't want is Risen 2: Skyrim.Well, now that you mention it... no base attributes (like Strenght and Dexterity), no level, perk based progression... not necessarily dumb, but.
Stalagmite
06.05.2012, 21:22
So it's even more streamlined like Skyrim? Damn. I hate that game.
I just hope exploration and character choices save it!
About ready to play for the first time...
Aetherian
06.05.2012, 21:32
So the real question, did they dumb down the mathematics and character stats for this or is it more or less the same, just structured differently?
What I don't want is Risen 2: Skyrim.
With Skyrim at least with adding mods I can tweak it to pretty much play the game the way I want, much better than in Oblivion. With Risen 2 you're limited to playing the game the way PB designed it, for good or ill, at least until some of the more dedicated people around here can figure out how to give the finger to Deep Silver and PB and reverse engineer the code and eventually make some mods for it down the road to try to improve the gameplay a bit.
Speakerpankratz
06.05.2012, 21:39
I feel sorry for PB. Fans have asked for something different and they delivered. And still, the people still whine cuz it's
Who asked for:
- QUICK TIME EVENTS?
- broken combat system more similiar to Fable than anything PB have done before?
- tiny islands?
- countless fetch quests?
- simplified character progression?
- the lack of/severely reduced amount of choices and consequences of your actions in the game?
- no climbing/swimming (what makes it even more jarring is the "pirate/island" setting)?
I repeat, who asked for such things?
The publisher did, that's who, to make the game console-friendly and it totally backfired, all those things really wreck Risen 2.
Delaying Consoles wasn't the best move:dnuhr:
Why? Would you rather it have come out before its ready and hated it anyway/more? You waited for it anyway so what's more waiting go to do with anything?
- the lack of/severely reduced amount of choices and consequences of your actions in the game?
I do not know anything yet about consequences, but choices are here.
question: 'what course?'
http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae128/UrukGoxHai/kojikursjbt.jpg
Nichtswisser
07.05.2012, 05:49
You do not have to play with the musket. Choose any of the other skills if you so bothered by musket rifles.
Yeah, you have the choice between far to easy and thus boring rifle combat, and mind numbingly stupid and frustrating melee combat that's just no fun because it's far to limited in what you can do. Oh, you can also use Vodoo to make things kill each other, as long as you don't mind getting no XP (or whatever) for those kills.
I do not know anything yet about consequences, but choices are here.
question: 'what course?'
http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/ae128/UrukGoxHai/kojikursjbt.jpg
Please, those are Bioware like pseudo choices, the kind they offer almost since the stone age of gaming in games like Kotor, NWN and many many more. All you can really decide is the sequence in which you do them while you have to do them all anyway. Real choices are things like the factions in Gothic 1+2 which offered different quests, skills, and equipment. Or in The Witcher 2 where the complete second chapter was truly different depending on what side you choose in the chapter before.
Please, those are Bioware like pseudo choices, the kind they offer almost since the stone age of gaming in games like Kotor, NWN and many many more. All you can really decide is the sequence in which you do them while you have to do them all anyway. Real choices are things like the factions in Gothic 1+2 which offered different quests, skills, and equipment. Or in The Witcher 2 where the complete second chapter was truly different depending on what side you choose in the chapter before.
Choices in which I lock a large part of the game and location is a bad choice for me... this is not in free RPG spirit, IMO. In The Witcher 2 whatever I choose, gamplay remains linear and boring, and I was missing a lot the neutral path as in W1.
I prefer this multi-linear way, where I can explore almost entire game, and depending on my choices, experiences and knowledge obtained at the first locations, I will have a different experience in other parts of the game, and other locations. I like when I have the opportunity to be in the militia, and at the same time I can be in the thieves guild .... as Bad Lieutenant.:G
Real choices are things like the factions in Gothic 1+2 which offered different quests, skills, and equipment
In the Risen 2 I also have fractions, and limitations. Eg: Path of inquisitors forbids the use of powerful voodoo magic and its capabilities...But it does not matter if the inquisitors tried to forbid my voodoo skill learning, the problem is if I join the Inquisition, natives will lose trust in me, and they do not wanted to teach me.
sry for my bad english
Yeah, you have the choice between far to easy and thus boring rifle combat, and mind numbingly stupid and frustrating melee combat that's just no fun because it's far to limited in what you can do. Oh, you can also use Vodoo to make things kill each other, as long as you don't mind getting no XP (or whatever) for those kills.
My gaming and tactics are different.
I combine voodoo, sword fighting and cunning skills to overcome obstacles, different tactics for different enemies. I try not to miss exp. and hidden locations.
edit:
Risen 2 offered me much more than most of today's games, it could have been better, but frankly I expected even weaker and shallower game.
rivariad
07.05.2012, 13:55
this game is a joke, i dont need to present any proof anymore obviously. shame on piranhas
Godcrusher
07.05.2012, 14:03
Who asked for:
- QUICK TIME EVENTS?
- broken combat system more similiar to Fable than anything PB have done before?
- tiny islands?
- countless fetch quests?
- simplified character progression?
- the lack of/severely reduced amount of choices and consequences of your actions in the game?
- no climbing/swimming (what makes it even more jarring is the "pirate/island" setting)?
I repeat, who asked for such things?
The publisher did, that's who, to make the game console-friendly and it totally backfired, all those things really wreck Risen 2.
QUICK time events- you're right, that is annoying. But islands are great, the atmosphere there is PB, say whatever you want. And quests aren't as boring as you say, some on them are actually quite fun and interesting. They beat the shit out of Arcania and even G3 quests. Character progression? This is the thing i love in PB games- that its nice and simple. In g1 and g2 progression was simple as well, who the fuck needs all the tiny information and boosts some random items give you, and the % your damage increases when equipping that items? Any more complications in character system only ruin the fun. Choices are also there. You have more choices than in G1, where only the 1st chapter is really 'choiceable'. Climbing is there for the cliffs you can climb, why would you need more? Only swimming seems to be missing, that and drinking/eating animations.
Negative
08.05.2012, 21:46
Who asked for:
- QUICK TIME EVENTS?
- broken combat system more similiar to Fable than anything PB have done before?
- tiny islands?
- countless fetch quests?
- simplified character progression?
- the lack of/severely reduced amount of choices and consequences of your actions in the game?
- no climbing/swimming (what makes it even more jarring is the "pirate/island" setting)?
I repeat, who asked for such things?
The publisher did, that's who, to make the game console-friendly and it totally backfired, all those things really wreck Risen 2.
Actually a lot of criticism was put on PB for making almost everything accessible for the player in the first 2 chapters of R1. Once the player got to the last few chapters, there was nothing left to "explore" on the island. That's what the islands were supposed to create a sense of - constant exploration. Granted, I liked the way they did this in G1 & G2 because they added a bunch of tough beasties that "guarded" specific areas. But regardless, the fans and critics complained (aka asked for something different) and PB provided the multiple islands as a solution. What would have been really cool was to add caverns that went under the water and created connection points to the islands. Think of that... a whole new world below the surface as well as on top.
What would have been really cool was to add caverns that went under the water and created connection points to the islands. Think of that... a whole new world below the surface as well as on top.
While your idea is quite good (I like it), but only if done well, people would still complain about everything else they complain about so it probably wouldn't do much on its own. A few review scores could be a bit better though.
I assume they would have needed another year to actually make a really good game OR a bigger team.
Strange. I don’t recall that much criticism about the basic game design of Risen 1 (or the Gothic series from which it was inspired, for that). The major flaw of R1 was the boring fourth chapter. When you have already explored everything, that would have been the time to offer the player a chance to “explore” something else. Like an interesting and complex plot. The game was fine for the first three chapters, only the fourth was lacking. And the replay value was low because two of the three guilds (mages and order warriors) were very, very similar. Another flaw was the magic system which lacked a bit complexity.
These were the important flaws of R1. And this was the criticism that I remember from the majority forum. Of these three, only one was addressed in R2. The story does not wane to the end. But the guilds have been reduced even less (two instead of three) and magic as playable class has been removed completely.
These were the important flaws of R1. And this was the criticism that I remember from the majority forum. Of these three, only one was addressed in R2. The story does not wane to the end. But the guilds have been reduced even less (two instead of three) and magic as playable class has been removed completely.
But you have voodoo magic, cunning skills, speech skills and their combinations. You have the ability to create pirate on your preferences, and that brings a diversity in gamplay. Much better, more complex and interesting than those fireballs and lasers from R1, IMO.
But you have voodoo magic
Indeed but they are diminished to a supportive role only. The new social skills are also quite nice, no doubt about it. But the topic of my post was the alleged criticism against R1 and their effects on R2. Social skills are nice, but their lack in R1 was only a side-comment, not a major flaw.
Neither were the trainers criticised but they were still partly removed from R2. You only need them for perks now, skills can be raised in the stats screen. And who asked for the removal of the attributes or LP or bows and crossbows? For the new camera? For no playable mage class?
Bottom line: I simply don’t think that R2 – for better or worse – is a result of the community’s criticism. Except for maybe the storyline. Everything else was done because PB and DS simply wanted it that way. I doubt that they concerned themselves too much with whatever the community or the critics demanded.
And it’s not necessarily a bad thing that they did not allow their vision of the game to be compromised by outsiders. It’s just that saying: “They gave us what we wanted, so we have no right to complain.” is IMHO wrong. They gave us what they wanted. Perhaps as they should. But you and I and everyone else do have a right to complain, if they do not like it.
Neither were the trainers criticised but they were still partly removed from R2. You only need them for perks now, skills can be raised in the stats screen.
This solution does not bother me. Again I had a choice and dilemma: whether to pay or spend exp... or again, to combine these two solutions, with clothes, jewelry, or perhaps to take some of the voodoo drugs.
I agree, complete removal of trainers would be a huge problem and mistake.
edit:
Simplification of today's games is a sad reality (in R2 is not only that but the negligence too). But as I wrote, in the Risen 2 I got a lot more than I expected, and far more than in other today's 'RPGs'
Godcrusher
09.05.2012, 16:16
Simplification of today's games is a sad reality (in R2 is not only that but the negligence too). But as I wrote, in the Risen 2 I got a lot more than I expected, and far more than in other today's 'RPGs'
Yeah true. i thought r2 will be a PotC rip-off but its not. The gnomes rock, so do the monkeys. And neither g1 or g2 had very complex magic and skill systems but are still great. Complications started with g3 and so far i like r2 a lot more.
Guys I can admit I had good expectations in this game, having played the first one and having finished it 2 times, but I can say these comments ruined my mood, still since I want to have my own opinion, is there any demo for this game?? To judge myself.
is there any demo for this game?? To judge myself.
Nothing yet. Now that a patch is out, maybe there will be one coming up?
MatTheCat
10.05.2012, 01:54
They really messed up the game when compared to Risen 1:
- the combat is very bad
- they removed the double-tap dodge/evade
- they removed climbing ability
- dialogue and quests are, frankly said, shit
- gameplay areas are really, really small, no real exploration
Only thing I can ask is how the fuck is this even possible? Considering how Risen 1 was received by the community how on Earth could anybody think it would be good idea to butcher the combat, exploration and climbing?
I have just been checking Risen 2 out and my intial impressions are the same.
What the fuck are PB thinking about!? Is this just another dose of consolitis? Are the devs at PB getting sick and tired of doing what they do?
All the good things they put into Risen which improved the feel of the game over the Gothic they have removed and replaced with broken awkward nonsense. I have only played a little way into the game but can already see that interaction with the world has been drastically reduced, and this idea of serioulsy reduced and limited gameplay areas, I do not like one little bit.
Also, imo, the game does look lovely, but what the hell are these graphics bugs? Bushes popping in and out of view just a few feet in front of the character, the shadow angles dancing about all over the place....and then there are the character animations.....jeeez...were PB drunk the whole time when they were making this?
Somewhere in thier I sense the charm in the game that only PB can deliver but all in all, what a massive step backwards.
Combining the fact the game has been so poorly done, the fact that Deep Silver are pushing this premium DLC bullshit on us, and the fact that the end user is being burdened with the forced STEAM drm system, there is no chance am I stumping out cash for this, which will make Risen 2 the first PB game I never bought.
Aetherian
10.05.2012, 05:52
I assume you got the 'demo'?
MatTheCat
10.05.2012, 11:31
I assume you got the 'demo'?
I nearly always get the 'demo' before I purchase any PC game...either that or play the full version on my 'friends' computer.
Last time I bought without trying the 'demo', was Black Ops 2, and I can tell you, I was sorely dissapointed with that.......never again do I buy without trying first.
At the end of the day, I am a real demographic and real potential paying customer especially with regards to PB games. If PB and/or Deep Silver cannot cater for me, or if they infact turn me away from buying thier product after I have conducted my normal decision making process, then that is their problem.
Forced STEAM DRM + premium DLC scam + sloppy coding + consolitisised game design = no purchase.
Aetherian
10.05.2012, 15:11
I almost always got the 'demo' version myself to check out the game to see if it's something worth purchasing, but my current crap internet service precludes me from even doing that. Also with DS having the genius to make the game download only where I'm at instead of having a box version with just online activation, looks like I don't get this game. First PB game that I haven't snagged when it first came out.
And the next flaunting about getting the 'demo' will get an infraction for violation of the ToS. Because veiled violations are still violations.
MatTheCat
10.05.2012, 15:15
I almost always got the 'demo' version myself to check out the game to see if it's something worth purchasing, but my current crap internet service precludes me from even doing that. Also with DS having the genius to make the game download only where I'm at instead of having a box version with just online activation, looks like I don't get this game. First PB game that I haven't snagged when it first came out.
You could easily buy it from abroad mate.....in Europe the game is still sold in boxed DVD form (still need STEAM though which for me is a real turn off in itself).
Aetherian
10.05.2012, 15:23
You could easily buy it from abroad mate.....in Europe the game is still sold in boxed DVD form (still need STEAM though which for me is a real turn off in itself).
The only Steam reliant game I own is Skyrim, and it may be the last as I don't like Steam at all but I'll put up with it as I've really grown to love Skyrim(using several mods).
@Foobar - Sorry about that, wasn't thinking when I was typing. Which isn't unusual......
Bastardo
10.05.2012, 22:49
Risen 2 should have had real-time sailing and naval battles. There isn't much of a point to the whole pirate thing when you're still the same old adventurer who saves the world primarily by running around the forest beating the fur out of monsters.
Risen 2 should have had real-time sailing and naval battles.
Ugh. In that case give me a walk-the-plank simulator.
Risen 2 is the first time I've ever been disappointed in a Piranha Bytes game.
I must say, I already saw the signs and I've been trying to politely ask about it in the Ask The Developers-thread before the game came out. I hate that my worries were right.
The biggest flaws about the current Piranha Bytes team is that they seem to lack ambition now. Just compare Risen 2 to their very first game, Gothic. In Gothic we had this wonderful world with lots of exploration, we had climbing that actually mattered, where we could climb everything from houses to trees to mountains. Also, water was a part of the world and not just used as a barrier of entry. We could swim to reach otherwise inaccessible areas, we could dive to find hidden routes and items, we could even just let the stream take us somewhere since the water actually 'moved' in Gothic!
All of this is missing in Risen 2. Gone is the exploration, as the game has been divided into small islands that are not only less inspired than in the earlier games, they are also surprisingly repetitive. Gone is the climbing since it is now more of a scripted event than a player-driven action (you can only climb in very obvious, designated areas). Forget about climbing houses. Gone is the swimming and diving. Seriously, you can't even die in the water now, you're only magically teleported back to some random point on the beach! Incredibly immersion breaking. Even the jumping seems to have gotten worse. The hero in Risen jumps like an 80 year old lady. Gothic 3 didn't have climbing and I thought I would miss it immensely, but the jump was so powerful that I still managed to climb even houses with it. None of that is left in Risen 2.
I will not mention the combat. All I will say is that I turned on 'Easy' and tried to finish each battle as fast as possible since there was no fun to be had from combat.
So what is Risen 2 then? It's a very polished, technically stable RPG with very good dialogue and some great characters. I like the setting more than I thought I would and the story isn't bad, albeit a bit uninteresting at times. I may be alone in this, but I kind of liked the shooting mini-game and the lockpicking mini-game. They were fun diversions. All in all, Risen is not a bad game, it's just a bad Piranha Bytes game. I expect more from the creators of the Gothic series.
How would I improve Risen 3? I would take this great technology they have and I would add to it. I would add climbing and swimming and diving. These three features make the gameworld so much more interesting to explore and it keeps you coming back to play the game again since there's always something you missed the first time. I would bring back levitation and transformation. These two magic spells were criminally underused in the earlier games and I had hoped Piranha Bytes would realize the huge potential they have and add more interesting puzzles and hidden things and quests around them. Instead they were removed. I would also hire more world designers. Why was there only one type of island in the game (except the Island of the Dead that lacked exploration altogether)? They were all so similar! Why not make one island a barren rock island, for example? One island just a huge mountain jutting out of the sea? Just look at nature and find some inspiration! Having only jungles is a bit odd.
I don't know why I am writing this, since the chance of a Piranha Bytes employee actually reading this and caring is 0%, but still.. I had to get it off my chest.
sendrill
14.05.2012, 12:02
Risen 2 is the first time I've ever been disappointed in a Piranha Bytes game.
I really agree with you mkreku, in all you dissertation, and I'd add a simple irritating thing: WHY THE HELL CANNOT I JUST SEARCH DEATH BY JUMPING FROM THE FIRST DAMN TOWER??? All these invisible barriers are REALLY annoying and definitely NOT Gothic-style (and not PB-style).
You are right: they have lost their ambition.
The ambition to make a great original, different, irriverent game, like it was the unsurpassed masterpiece Gothic I.
I'm truly and sadly deluded...
i only partly agree with you, mkreku.
While i did jump into water here and there in gothic games, i certainly don't remember gothic for diving and and swimming...the only really fun moment was maybe when you had to dive to get the ore armour in g1. But apart from that, i didn't mind swimming, but it wasn't the feature i was totaly hyped about....
Climbing...the reason i do remeber it and i did like it, is not so much for exploration, but because if the various places where i could abuse them. Climb a rock and then shoot really strong mobs from it, and it wouldn't be able to access you. Or climb a tree, and so on.
On the other hand, it is kinda logical that they would upgrade and improve on their 12 or so years old game mechanics that made first games so good, not remove them. Swimming, diving, climbing...isn't really something special these days, so they should work on improve that, and for some reason, they didn't just not improve it, they even removed some of these features.
And i do agree with land size; While some islands were quite fun and all, many were very similar, and all had very small size, so even if the entire land mass is big, combined, it feels very small because each island is very small.
And yeah, some more various wouldn't hurt.
Though, when you complain about combat...i think it needs to be said, that PB actually did some very good things here too; Dirty tricks and stuff....that was quite fun.
InnerMoon
14.05.2012, 22:16
Well, after trying at least 3 times I had no stomach to finish the game. Though I like some things, the most important aspects in a game are broken in Risen 2.
The way cunning work is just sad and bad implemented. For example: monkeys. I was hoping to learn how to train a monkey (I was imaging myself cathing monkeys in the forest) but Wow, It requires 6 points of cunning. I said, well, It will worth the effort and money... What do I find? You do not learn how to train a monkey, but just to buy one... (Why da hell you just do not sell it from the beggining) but WORST, you cannot steal almost nothing because a monkey catchs everybody attentions and WORST, if someone see your monkey stealing, they will just SHOOT at Him!!
Parrots (and most of dirty tricks) ask for a lot of cunning (8 points for parrots) and they are just USELESS. Yeah, they distract your enemy but once you hit him, he focus again on you!!!! THIS IS STUPID. What's the difference between having a parrot or having not. I cannot even have a parrot shitting in my shoulder for decorative purpose!
The way cunning work is just sad and bad implemented. For example: monkeys. I was hoping to learn how to train a monkey (I was imaging myself cathing monkeys in the forest) but Wow, It requires 6 points of cunning. I said, well, It will worth the effort and money... What do I find? You do not learn how to train a monkey, but just to buy one... (Why da hell you just do not sell it from the beggining) but WORST, you cannot steal almost nothing because a monkey catchs everybody attentions and WORST, if someone see your monkey stealing, they will just SHOOT at Him!!
If you want to enter and discover some hidden and inaccessible places, you need to have a monkey.
http://youtu.be/1dxpvX_5Tx4
JerrodAmolyan
15.05.2012, 21:40
I enjoyed Risen 2, even though combat was horrible...
What bugs me the most though, is that they removed ALL the cool interactive things like sitting, turning a cooking spit, cauldron... I hope they make an update that enables you to sit on the chairs.
The story in the game is best I've seen in 6 years. Let's face it, skyrim was a complete flop. Oblivion was a complete flop. Bughesda Shitworks repeat their crap too much. In oblivion, you go and destroy the same generic looking oblivion gates. In skyrim you kill the same generic looking dragons and find words of power. Pfffft.... Boring, boring, boring.
OH AND WHY ON EARTH did they remove smoking? I LOVED my smoking!!
And WHAT happened to my drinking and eating animations? Also, what happened to MURDERING!? You can't just knock the shit out of someone and then finish him with that awesome stab. Also, when you shoot somebody in the head in conversation, they... go unconcious? That's some fucking strong heads. They removed almost EVERYTHING that made me enjoy gothics so much.
But I liked the game solely for the story, which did not have such a lame generic feel as is the custom of ALL the new games these days. Conclusion: Games are made for people, in favor of what they want.
People these days: Retarded. Games these days: Have to be retarded to answer the demand.
MatTheCat
16.05.2012, 21:27
THIS!
Let's face it, Skyrim was a complete flop. Oblivion was a complete flop. Bughesda Shitworks repeat their crap too much. In oblivion, you go and destroy the same generic looking oblivion gates. In skyrim you kill the same generic looking dragons and find words of power. Pfffft.... Boring, boring, boring.
I love it when I see the odd person that crawls out the woodwork and says something that to me is patently obvious but to the mass hoardes is a statement tantamount to sacrilege. Skyrim was so bloody boring I wanted to put a cap in my head for playing as long as I did (about 20 hours or so). Why cant the gaming masses see through all the hype and admit that despite the scale and artisitic direction, the game was as dry as prison bread.
But I liked the game solely for the story, which did not have such a lame generic feel as is the custom of ALL the new games these days. Conclusion: Games are made for people, in favor of what they want.
People these days: Retarded. Games these days: Have to be retarded to answer the demand.
I haven't played Risen 2 (properly) yet and might never do so. From the impression I got of the game however, I have noticed dozens of omitted details in the game when compared to the Gothic and indeed the previous Risen titles. Apart from the small interactions with the game world, and the huge freedom of movement that was available in the previous PB games, one the things that gave the previous games thier charms was the fact that the developers weren't afraid to put a bit of dirt n nastiness into thier games. Smoking 'swampweed' and having a cult based around the ingestion of the drug was f-kn cool. Being able to choose whether just to beat someone up or to brutally finish them off was great. Getting involved in interfaction deals and having the option (and by that I mean the choice) of ratting on someone for a specific given personal gain offered fantastic intrigue and thus immersion into the artificial NPC culture that PB had created.
The reason all those nice little touches are gone is that the creative media business are increasingly governed by the results of market analysis which seeks to pinpoint the most mainstream selling points in any particular creative product. That means anything which may shock or offend even a relative minority of people, will get left on the shelf. Any minor little touches, the accumulation of which give a product its charm, will in thier singular forms be overlooked by the blunt tools of market analysis. Features that market analysis will give the thumbs up to, will be essentially broadly appealling to the majority of people but specifically appealing to very few, i.e. the same old usual f-kn cliches that are repeated over and over in popular culture entertainment forms that hit huge chords with nobody yet still undeniably manage to stir something in the 'lowest common denominator' of the human mind. The interference of market anaylsis in the creative arts industry also results in the producers of a given product being forced to work within a preset mould, which in itself is countercreative.
So I dont think that people are 'retardeder' per se, but that creative arts industry has been corrupted by big business and thier attempts to maxmise and securitise thier investments. And whilst original art and creativity may be fast becoming extinct in video gaming, I would say that computer games are the one area of mass entertainment that has definitely benefited from the massive concentrations of capital being put into it (epic high tech masterpieces such as BF3 would be impossible otherwise). The same thing however, cannot be said for the film industry and certainly not the popular music industry, which now produces nothing except utter garbage almost 100% of the time.
JerrodAmolyan
16.05.2012, 22:09
Welcome to the world ruled by byrokrats. I do say people are pretty much retarded. All the hype for Skyrim for example. People LOVED -that-. Most Americans did atleast... I feel like saying something really mean following my last mention of a particular nation, but I will not, as it will probably result in me getting banned by the dark hand of the said nation's government, called moderators.
At any rate, I've nothing to add to your post, except a small little bit more of my ranting. You just listed everything I love about gothis 1 and 2 (Well the combat should be added too. Best system ever. No click click click like -ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL AND ONCE AGAIN ALL- new games are.) In Gothic 3 though, I hated pretty much everything. It was the first sign of sucking up to the previously mentioned nation's audience, that I did not mention here, but know everyone understands, so I am a clever bastard. Most people I've heard to like Gothic 3, Arcania, Skyrim, Oblivion... all these clicking abominations that appeal only to certain wool-producing animal-like mindsets and propaganda filled heads, have been from the said nation. I'm very sorry if all this offends somebody, but my task is to deliver facts only. Spiced up a bit with my own personal opinion.
Games these days have: No swearing, no challenge in the use of keyboard on the combat system. Yeah, WHYY BOTHEEEER, we have the LEFT CLICK afterall! No whores, No bad habits like drunkardness and smoking weed/tobacco, no racism, no sexism, no murdering, no decapitation and gore, no slaves... Well, and that is because this generation is fucked up.
For example: Bicker Mice From Mars the cartoons, I loved those as a child. It had racism, sexism, swearing and stuff (was from end of 80's and beginning of 90's) but did I grow up into a mannerless goat? Well maybe, but I enjoy life as such. Sue me.
Now it's censored to the point of ridiculous. Most combatscenes are non-violent and boring, no swearing and no nothing. Everything's like told to a 1 year old in day-care.
MatTheCat
16.05.2012, 22:38
At any rate, I've nothing to add to your post, except a small little bit more of my ranting. You just listed everything I love about gothis 1 and 2 (Well the combat should be added too. Best system ever. No click click click like -ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL AND ONCE AGAIN ALL- new games are.) In Gothic 3 though, I hated pretty much everything. It was the first sign of sucking up to the previously mentioned nation's audience, that I did not mention here, but know everyone understands, so I am a clever bastard. Most people I've heard to like Gothic 3, Arcania, Skyrim, Oblivion... all these clicking abominations that appeal only to certain wool-producing animal-like mindsets and propaganda filled heads, have been from the said nation. I'm very sorry if all this offends somebody, but my task is to deliver facts only. Spiced up a bit with my own personal opinion.
lol.
I am waiting on Elders Scrolls VI: Analrim, where all disputes out in the woods (or in Analrim's case, within the generic tunneled dungeons), are settled by battles with big purple swords attached to the groins of the NPC's, whose favourtie attack point is up the arses' of thier opponents.....it will go CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK.....IN-OUT-IN-OUT.IN-OUT...all the way through the dungeon......the yanks will fkn love it!
To be fair on Gothic 3, I think that PB simply overstretched themselves. The world that they created has all of the darkness and meaness of a PB fantasy world and the graphics were stunning even by todays standards. With so massive a world however, it seems that PB were unable to inject any of the personality into it that they did with Gothic, Gothic 2, and Risen. So even with the CP 1.7x which eventually made the game playable years later down the line massively improving the combat in the process, Gothic 3 is ultimately a bit of a bland gaming experience (miles better than Skyrim though).
JerrodAmolyan
16.05.2012, 22:55
Well actually, G3 was a shit game mainly because of the world DIDN'T have the dark atmosphere. It was so... so damn GREEN. everything seemed HAPPY there. Plus the hero looked like your common american truck-driver :D And the hero looked -fat-, not muscular. Also, whatever happened to his ponytail, the world will never know. Also, weapons carried on your back... that makes me so mad, everytime. I hate that, with a passion. Try to be a rogue with your sword idioticly stored on your back, OR an assassin. Your arm doesn't have enough reach to actually pull the weapons out.
But I can not disagree with the graphics part. They're actually better graphics than in any other game I've played. (Risen2 on full graphics, would be another, but alas my cpu won't run it. above the lowest settings. Runs skyrim above medium though, so everyone does the math which one has the better graphics, huh? Since Skyrim was overhyped for the graphics, let's strike below the belt for Bethfans.) And the graphics are STILL amazing. PB's source of KAMEHAME-HA power is the Textures. Their texture work is -amazing-. It's -art-. Skyrim is just Banal.
But yeah, I think those Yanks would indeed love this Analrim. *Laughs*
MatTheCat
17.05.2012, 00:25
Well actually, G3 was a shit game mainly because of the world DIDN'T have the dark atmosphere. It was so... so damn GREEN. everything seemed HAPPY there.
Eh? You mean that the Gothic 3 world was as "As happy as a hanged rebel corpse" or "As delighted as dozens of burnt down dwellings"!? I thought and still think that the G3 world is a stunning work of art just waiting for someone to insert an incredible RPG into it. Yeah, it could be 'darker' but so could the worlds from G1 and G2.......indeed, the G3 world is undeniably the darkest out of them all. (If you like dark, then you will love the touches made to the game by the CM 2.4 pack).
I have a top grade gaming PC and can vouch that Skyrim wasn't that demanding on the gfx card, but very demanding on RAM and also the CPU (it only made good use of 1 CPU) to a certain extent when it came to not dropping frames. It was only after the tweak to get Skyrim to use more than 2GB of RAM, that I got the solid 60 FPS at all times, regardless of situation. Playing Risen 2, in the small part of the jungle at the very start of the game, I have noticed my overclocked HD 7970 ask for up to 80%+ of GPU resources. This is with the game maxed out and various ini file tweaks. From what I seen so far, Risen 2 isn't very demanding on neither CPU or RAM. As stunning as Risen 2 looks (or would look if it actually animated the graphics properly) however, I suspect that much of the heavy GPU demand results from the 'Ultra' shadows setting, which gobbles up a massive amount of GPU resources for just a slight visual improvement.
Indeed, how much a game eats up gfx card resources isnt the best measure of how 'great' the graphics are. Crysis 2 DX11 mode for example, squanders gfx resources such as by deploying 100000's of polygons to depict flat surfaces or by making the cards draw a fully tesselated ocean at all times, even when 90%-100% of the ocean lies behind buildings etc. The result is top end gfx cards being brought to thier knees in order to produce decidedly underwhelming eye candy. In the case of Skyrim and Risen 2 however, you only need to glance at the games to see which is far the better of the two. But for those people whose eyes are incapable of determining which of the two has the more advanced graphics (Risen 2 by a long mile), I can vouch that the Risen 2 engine makes good use of one of the topest endest consumer gfx cards available today, whilst Skyrim barely touches it's sides. (and actually, when I actually played Skyrim i had an o/c 5850 which was still more than adequate to run that game fully maxed with added ini tweak gfx candy).
That means anything which may shock or offend even a relative minority of people, will get left on the shelf.
But who would be offended by being allowed to sit on a stool or saw a log, etc? And besides, by all accounts Risen 2 isn't all that politically correct either.
And whilst original art and creativity may be fast becoming extinct in video gaming, I would say that computer games are the one area of mass entertainment that has definitely benefited from the massive concentrations of capital being put into it (epic high tech masterpieces such as BF3 would be impossible otherwise).
Not quite - because the tons of capital is what causes the rich suits to place their market-analysed-restrictions on developers. Which makes games more sterile and less creative.
I am waiting on Elders Scrolls VI: Analrim
You won't get it. MMOs are the future.
Eh? You mean that the Gothic 3 world was as "As happy as a hanged rebel corpse" or "As delighted as dozens of burnt down dwellings"!? I thought and still think that the G3 world is a stunning work of art just waiting for someone to insert an incredible RPG into it. Yeah, it could be 'darker' but so could the worlds from G1 and G2.......indeed, the G3 world is undeniably the darkest out of them all. (If you like dark, then you will love the touches made to the game by the CM 2.4 pack).
The main thing that bothered me was that the music was often too happy. Especially the Myrtana-Day-Exploration music. That is what gave an otherwise rather bleak world such a happy tone. And as for 'dark', VoM in G2 anyone?:p
I have a top grade gaming PC and can vouch that Skyrim wasn't that demanding on the gfx card, but very demanding on RAM and also the CPU (it only made good use of 1 CPU) to a certain extent when it came to not dropping frames. It was only after the tweak to get Skyrim to use more than 2GB of RAM, that I got the solid 60 FPS at all times, regardless of situation.
Wasn't the high CPU demand the result of lack of optimisation rather than actually doing something?
I suspect that much of the heavy GPU demand results from the 'Ultra' shadows setting, which gobbles up a massive amount of GPU resources for just a slight visual improvement.
Yeah, I think those ultra sharp shadows aren't rendered by the usual shadow volumes but by using very high-res shadow maps. Which makes me wonder why they didn't have soft-shadows like Risen since they're using the same tech for the shadows. You could probably get very similar shadows in Risen by tweaking the configuration XML. The only change in shaders would involve making the soft shadow code NOT use depth information, but instead assuming that all the shadow is at the same depth.
But Risen 2 also seems to have several oddities in graphics - like some textures being rather blurry while others are very high-res, some stuff being low-poly with others being high-poly, stuff popping too close to the camera and of course the problems fixed by AntiWarp.
Actually, to say that R2 is a bad game is an exaggeration.In fact, I firmly believe that it is a very good game; there is only a major problem: it is made by PB.Your expectations were too big and this is the real problem here.Anyway, they worked a lot and do not deserve this kind of behavior from some guys who pretend to be PB fans.Sometimes you must remind that some PB employers are reading whatever is posted here; just try to image how they feel.After all, this Steamwork thingy is not they fault, but DS fault.
So, I want to thank PB for this new game:gratz and I hope they will continue their good work.
PS: Shame on you DS.
JerrodAmolyan
17.05.2012, 09:33
Well, "expecting too much" ? No. I expected -the same- as before. They CAN do games as good as gothic 2. They've alreade -proven- it by doing that game. They CAN do clever combat systems, but they did not. Why? Because people are Reta-... Yes, you know. They've noticed how much those clickspammer games sell for, and try to live with the stream. So congratulations skyrim-fanboys, you have -ruined- the RPG games' future.
Point: I liked Risen 2, because of the story. It was actually an enjoyable game. But I think that I have the right to expect the same level of awesomeness from -each- PB game as gothic2, since THEY made it in the first place. They COULD do it again. So why not? Because retarded little yanks wouldn't play them because it strains their rotten brains too much to actually be required to think while playing. Anything harder than a skyrim puzzle (Haha, saw the joke? Skyrim "Puzzle" :"DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD) is just too much. I feel for you people :(
I can't help it if this offends, but I don't really care either, at this time. It's the truth, and denying it would be hyporcrite or morale-wannabe.
Aetherian
17.05.2012, 13:51
Point: I liked Risen 2, because of the story. It was actually an enjoyable game. But I think that I have the right to expect the same level of awesomeness from -each- PB game as gothic2, since THEY made it in the first place. They COULD do it again. So why not? Because retarded little yanks wouldn't play them because it strains their rotten brains too much to actually be required to think while playing. Anything harder than a skyrim puzzle (Haha, saw the joke? Skyrim "Puzzle" :"DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD) is just too much. I feel for you people :(
I can't help it if this offends, but I don't really care either, at this time. It's the truth, and denying it would be hyporcrite or morale-wannabe.
A lot of people play Skyrim not just "retarded little yanks". It is not as challenging as PB games by far, but if you don't go overboard on the super weapons and armor it's not bad, and the combat is better than in Oblivions which was too nauseatingly easy. I hated Oblivion but have grown to love Skyrim in the fact that, with the pc version anyway, you can get mods for it to tweak it to your liking and can immerse yourself into a big open world for a few hours and forget how shitty the real world is for you at the moment. Which is all I can ask for a game to do.
One of the Biggest features in TES games is that they also release modding tools and are supportive of modding. Quite the opposite for PB/DS - who dislike modding intensely because it probably doesn't let previous games fade out of public view. Which is why I shall probably write one BIG news post at the end of May about all the Risen 2 modding we have seen in May - and possibly bother request RPG news sites to post about it as well. I guess everyone wants AntiWarp and the LOD mod at least.
JerrodAmolyan
18.05.2012, 06:19
One of the Biggest features in TES games is that they also release modding tools and are supportive of modding. Quite the opposite for PB/DS - who dislike modding intensely because it probably doesn't let previous games fade out of public view. Which is why I shall probably write one BIG news post at the end of May about all the Risen 2 modding we have seen in May - and possibly bother request RPG news sites to post about it as well. I guess everyone wants AntiWarp and the LOD mod at least.
I don't think that's the real issue here. Gothic 2 will never die, nor will gothic 1. Not many working mods, but people still love the games. Why? Because they were good. I'd like to see people love oblivion in 5 years from now. Most probably won't even remember that. Or skyrim. But I agree in this, that, 'scuseme for the name "Bughesda" did well in releasing this toolkit. Though there's a game with even better tools -really- and that's Neverwinter Nights (The first one). Aurora toolkit is -a marvel-. You can do -anything- with it.
I think, that the main issue for not releasing the mod-kit on PB games is, that they wouldn't get them more money, just more work. While I can understand them in that, I would say it's a bit assholism towards us faithful fans who support them no-matter-what.
Aetherian
18.05.2012, 15:51
I don't think that's the real issue here. Gothic 2 will never die, nor will gothic 1. Not many working mods, but people still love the games. Why? Because they were good. I'd like to see people love oblivion in 5 years from now. Most probably won't even remember that. Or skyrim. But I agree in this, that, 'scuseme for the name "Bughesda" did well in releasing this toolkit. Though there's a game with even better tools -really- and that's Neverwinter Nights (The first one). Aurora toolkit is -a marvel-. You can do -anything- with it.
I think, that the main issue for not releasing the mod-kit on PB games is, that they wouldn't get them more money, just more work. While I can understand them in that, I would say it's a bit assholism towards us faithful fans who support them no-matter-what.
People are still modding and playing Morrowind, and that game is well over 5 yrs old, the only people playing Gothic 1 or 2 are the diehards like myself and people here on this forum. Oblivion, even though I wouldn't mind it at all if it disappeared, will be around for a long time too and still be much more popular than any PB game.
Stalagmite
20.05.2012, 15:59
The game is very niche and twice as sleazy as previous PB games which reminds me of a Grindhouse movie.
I dig it.
Bastardo
22.05.2012, 11:45
People are still modding and playing Morrowind, and that game is well over 5 yrs old, the only people playing Gothic 1 or 2 are the diehards like myself and people here on this forum. Oblivion, even though I wouldn't mind it at all if it disappeared, will be around for a long time too and still be much more popular than any PB game.You think The Elder Scrolls is popular because of the modkits? Do you realize Bethesda has insane marketing budgets in comparison to PB+JW or PB+DS?
Before they unleash their next project they convince the gaming masses they are going to be given the best thing since Pong. The modkit is only there for when the dumbasses realize they've been lied to. So they all go "oh well, guess I can mod the game into the best shit ever" instead of breaking Bethesda's balls. The masses of console players don't realize crap, and they don't even get a modkit!
The marketing is why so many copies are sold early on. But it is because of extensive modding that the games remain popular after so much time.
Bastardo
22.05.2012, 12:10
The marketing is why so many copies are sold early on. But it is because of extensive modding that the games remain popular after so much time.Maybe, but apparently the goal of the industry is to sell out copies early on, otherwise why would Bethesda focus on console versions and give the spoils to PC gamers, acting all like "Here's your modkit though"?
If I have to guess it's because they liked the sales of Morrowind on Xbox at first, then the sales of Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas, and Skyrim, on consoles. All games with no modkits there but extensive modkits on PC.
By the way, those games remain popular among people who already own them, so that's more like longevity. The random dumbass browsing the store is looking for Skyrim V or Oblivion II: Skyrim, if you get my drift. He doesn't give two shits about freaking Morrowind mods.
A few months ago (it might even have been an entire year or two :D) I installed Oblivion once again. All because I discovered Nehrim. So, it's quite possible that some guys might even have bought Oblivion just to play Nehrim.
At any rate, we do agree that mods increase the lifespan of the games. The modkit may not generate sales after the first rush. But at any rate, more people keep playing the games.
Aetherian
22.05.2012, 14:17
@OSB
I make my own opinions about a game while playing it, I hated Oblivion and was extremely leery of Skyrim but have grown to really like the game. The mods give me the chance to change, or add, some things that I thought were lacking in the vanilla version and keeps my interest in continuing to play it. No doubt Bethesda is a bigger company and has more money for advertising and such than PB, but it seems PB doesn't know what kind of game to make anymore and it would help generate interest, in my view, if they would assist in letting people mod their games by releasing a mod kit. Or, like CDP, release free dlc's for the game instead of raping their customers of money for unlocked content which is already contained in the game. I believe PB continues to be a small developer for a reason, poor decisions.
i would write just a few facts here:
i was once a BIG PB fan. i played G1 for more than 15 times, G2 at least 10 times, G3 about 5 times, R1 2.5 times and R2 just 0.8 times (because i did not finished the game before i uninstalled it).
PB, you are a SMALL company, so you cannot make something similar to Elder Scrolls or Fallout. Just don't try it and you'll save yourselves lots of time and effort. Actually, as a small company you can choose but two ways:
1) Just make some average RPGs that *slightly* meet the standards of nowadays, yet lacking the Gothic soul. i said *slightly*, because, you can make the story line less attracting, you can make the controls duller and you can make the graphics a bit better, according to the current standards. But you got to accept that you cannot compete with other companies in this way... Take the naval battle in Assassin's Creed 3 as an example, you can't add it in R2. Yes, You can make games like R2, and some people may pay for it and play it for some time, but soon people will forget this game, i promise you. Repeat, YOU CANNOT COMPETE WITH OTHER COMPANIES IN THIS WAY! But of course you can make some money in this way, if you care only about money but not the quality and future of your babies.
2) Stick to your own standards established in G1 and G2. You have created history with them and you've got huge amount of fans in Germany alone. You will make money in this way too and you will get RESPECT from your fans.
i paid more than 100 euro for R1 collector's edition, and i decided just buying the standard version of R2 but now i even regret for this decision. For a possbile R3 i may yet give it a try but i won't buy it unless i'll get a positive feeling about it.
i feel really sad that i've said such things to you, PB, but you leave me no other choice.
- no climbing/swimming (what makes it even more jarring is the "pirate/island" setting)?
Imagine if we had been able to swim around the islands.. dive for sunken treasure.. explore stranded ghost ships. Coral reefs, being hunted by sharks, having to find a breathe water potion to get down to that sunken ship and battle an octopus. There's just SO MUCH they could do with this setting. Instead they had us running around on small islands, all of which looked almost exactly the same.
If Risen 2 had been made the Gothic way, we would have sailed ourselves between the island, instead of the cutscenes we got now.
In Gothic I used to climb trees to get away from enemies in panic! In Risen I could only "climb" in designated places, all of which were clearly marked.
Shit, even from Risen to Risen 2 there have been a marked regression. In Risen they at least tried to implement interesting features such as levitation and.. uh something else, I forget right now (was it transformation?). In Risen 2.. nothing.
Such a disappointment. A good game, but a bad Gothic-type game.
http://upload.worldofplayers.de/files8/Scumbag_PB.jpg
The Ore Baron
18.09.2012, 17:51
I do not understand why the lack of swimming in Risen 2 is such a big problem for everyone.
Many of us loved the first Gothic games, which featured swimming, but did not use this feature for much. Let's see: the first Gothic game had an alternate (and pretty useless) way into the the tunnels below the Fog Tower, an underwater area with a few sunken houses to look at for a minute and the redundantly difficult entry to Xardas' old tower. In Gothic 2, swimming was the only way to the treasure island, the sewers and the small beach (using one of the several nearby rowboats to reach all three locations would have been a lot smarter). That's just four instances where swimming was actually used in the classic games, not counting the general ability to swim through bodies of water (serves the same purpose as wading through shallow water in Risen games). And even these four were nothing special.
Gothic games were set on an island, they featured pirates, ships and treasures, yet few people have ever complained about the limited use of swimming. These games did not have underwater chests, water monsters (well, lurkers could swim, but not attack you in deep water, as far as I remember) or off-shore shipwrecks. So how come Risen 2 gets all the blame?
Is it just because of the pirate setting? I'm sorry, but since when is swimming and diving mandatory in a pirate setting? Pirates are equipped with metal swords and gunpowder pistols, so diving is generally not a good idea. Rowboats are the standard way to go from ship to land and general short-distance travel on water, and Risen 2 had these. Swimming away from sharks or even attacking them with a sword is just pants-on-head retarded, and so is hiding treasure chests underwater.
And what was that about Risen 2 having sailing cutscenes instead of actual sailing? I understand that's a valid point of criticism, but why anyone would say a Gothic-style game would have done it differently is beyond me. Gothic games had static loading screens for area transfers, and the only time a ship did sail, it was shown in a cutscene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxYqWLPPKP8) - a pre-rendered one, no less.
If there is anything Risen 2 did wrong with a pirate setting, it's not featuring a sea battle with another pirate ship. That would have meant bigger ships and larger crews, something Gothic 2 was also lacking. A shame, really. I couldn't feel like a pirate when there was barely any deckhands under my command. That leads to my final problem, the lack of actual chain of command: NH was a captain, but never really 'captained' anything - he was just friends with a bunch of strangers who followed and listened to him for various reasons except for being their captain. Lame. Also, a bigger crew would have allowed for a mutiny subplot or something. Either way, PB missed a few opportunities with this.
But lack swimming? That's not really a problem.
My two cents.
Gothic 2 was not pirate based. And yet a lot of people complained about the fact that they didn't hide at least one treasure underwater, at least in that sunken ship.
Risen 2 is pirate based. That means more sunken ships, more islands, more water. Only an idiot would think about not implementing swimming in a tropical setting like that. I spent at least 2-3 hours swimming in g1, exploring very single stream or river. So yeah, the lack of swimming in r2 is friggin annoying.
About the climbing, iirc they had implemented free climbing, but at one point decided to remove it. What was the big deal if some players managed to climb into some restricted areas? Wouldn't it have been better to just edit the meshes against that happening?
Risen 2 is not really bad, just bad.
Ariogaisus
20.09.2012, 12:49
Risen 2 is not really bad, just bad.
"And so, Billy improved and came from terrible to just bad."
TheDoctor
20.09.2012, 14:55
Many of us loved the first Gothic games, which featured swimming, but did not use this feature for much.
False. I used it all the time to traverse rivers and seek for treasures underwater or behind waterfalls. It really added to the feel of depth and realism in the world, not only through adding another element of exploration but also in freedom of interaction; Just as climbing; Or jumping. Completely removing swimming (and climbing) felt like cutting off part of my freedom (of interaction). I always felt held back in Risen because of this..
TheDoctor and Maladiq are right. It's about (active!) freedom and about a believable world.
But there's also a gameplay element involved. Maybe it was not used that much in G1 but that does not mean it can't be. Example: The hero has to rescue the princess from the castle of the evil sorcerer. First task: Get inside the castle. Now with the R2 engine, nearly every path has to be scripted for this specific problem. And those scripted paths won't help the developer at the next quest. There, he has to script again some other paths. Which boils down to a lot of work and, given a limited budget, negligence towards multi-linearity. It would be too much work.
But there is an alternative: Generic solutions. If the engine allows swimming then the hero can swim through the castle moat. If he can dive, he can dive through the sewage pipe. If he can climb, he can climb across the walls. If he can sneak, he can sneak past the guards at the rear entrance. If he can levitate, he might fly through an open window on the third floor. The more versatile the engine allows the hero to be, the more possible paths are open to the player when solving problems. Without creating much work for the developer once the engine is done. Once you have swimming, you can use it in a lot of quests. And especially in a pirate game, many quests with swimming come to mind.
In the example above, a developer does not have to provide a scripted solution, he just needs an engine in which you can swim and dive and sneak and climb. And a little clue regarding level design. Sure, he can also provide additional scripted solutions, but he does not have to. Which means that an engine which allows things like swimming, diving, climbing, sneaking, levitating and so on, at least has the potential for multiple alternate solutions for quests. That potential may or may not be harnessed by the individual game but it is undoubtedly there.
TheDoctor
20.09.2012, 16:57
Foobar saves the day again. ;)
Just one thing... "Generic solutions"? Is that actual terminology or just your name for freedom of interaction? Just curious because I like to read up on game design stuff like that.
Just one thing... "Generic solutions"? Is that actual terminology or just your name for freedom of interaction?
I'm not sure if you'll find that term in some game design handbook. I made it up but I think it's pretty descriptive. A solution which is generic: Once it's there, it can be applied to many different problems in the game.
TheDoctor
20.09.2012, 17:18
I'm not sure if you'll find that term in some game design handbook. I made it up but I think it's pretty descriptive. A solution which is generic, i.e. can be applied to many different problems.
To me that's not a good description. My first thought was that you was referring to the walking around in Risen 2 because swimming is impossible, making walking the generic solution. If you have several different solutions to choose from, how are any of them generic? It doesn't make any sense to my primitive, sub-human brain.
I don't mean to mark words though. Just got a bit confused. :dnuhr:
Well, i will just say this. While i find swimming and climbing ok and somewhat fun, it's really not the worst thing in risen series. If i have to point out what breaks the immersion for me, atleat in r2, it's two things.
Lack of guilds (aka camps in gothic 1), and world divided into islands.
About guilds..i mean, you only have one main guild, and that's Pirates. Sure, you have natives, and they are actually very fun, but as far as story goes, they are not really important to the big picture. They are not really alternative guild to pirates, it's more like thiefs guild in g2. Not THAT important. I don't know what is PB thinking here; one of the best things in g1 and even g2, was rivalty between old and new camp, they were uqual as in how important they are. You either choose one or the other. If you choose one, people of the other camp will start looking at you different way.
And each guild had totally different back story.
And that was already the case in r1...i mean, you pretty much only have inqusition, while bandits were ok but again not really altenative to inqui, atleast it felt like that. Sure you manage to invade harbor city for bandits, but still, it didn't really matter that much. Inqu was worried about how to fight titans and stuff, while bandits were just this small group of people who only cared about that little island.
In g1, all 3 fractions had similar goal; one way or another, it involved barrier. All 3 felt equally important.....in r1 and 2, i really felt like they had only one "guild". And even worse in r2. I seriously don't know what PB is thinking here...
And then there's island thing...horrible choice.....islands felt like playing old rpgs.....you finish first level, and proceed, and don't really feel like going back anymore....i loved in g1 to cosntantly go back and forth, across entire terrain...
In any case, that's the two things that for me were worse both in r1 and r2. When world is devided into small and boring islands, while there is only one fraction...swimming and climbing doesn't come even close to that....to me, that is.
I have no clue about programming, but I don't think it would take more than a couple of hours to implement swimming in an engine. I mean it's like reimplementing walking, only adding a third dimension, an oxygen bar and a new animation, all dependent on the proximity of a texture/shader and a camera filter for underwater scenes. The camera filter is an easy task for someone with experience, the animation would require the most work, but I don't think it would take more than 10-15 hours for someone who really knows how to animate (we are talking about quality here).
Also, I don't know about the personal lives of the PB, yet talking from my experiences and the experiences of others, usually when one works on a project he really loves, he keeps working as well after he got home as well. Maybe they did this, yet it doesn't feel like it. G1 and G2 felt like a bunch of individual brainstorming sessions mashed together. R2 feels like the minimum of effort was invested, like they only implemented what they agreed upon. And it takes a lot out of the game.
TheDoctor
21.09.2012, 07:50
I have no clue about programming, but I don't think it would take more than a couple of hours to implement swimming in an engine.
I am a programmer and my guess is that it would take quite some longer time than "a couple of hours". You would have to incorporate it to the player class, incorporate it to the collision checking, bug test it, balance it, tweak it, make new animations. You would also have to incorporate swimming into other beasts, make pathfinding for swimming NPCs possible in water etc.
I'm not saying it's a huge project or anything. Piranha Bytes could obviously have done it during their development time frame, but not in a couple of hours.
False. I used it all the time to traverse rivers and seek for treasures underwater or behind waterfalls. It really added to the feel of depth and realism in the world
Oh yes, and swimming downstream got you to places faster in G1.
I am a programmer and my guess is that it would take quite some longer time than "a couple of hours". You would have to incorporate it to the player class, incorporate it to the collision checking, bug test it, balance it, tweak it, make new animations. You would also have to incorporate swimming into other beasts, make pathfinding for swimming NPCs possible in water etc.
I'm not saying it's a huge project or anything. Piranha Bytes could obviously have done it during their development time frame, but not in a couple of hours.
Exactly, while it was doable, it goes to show things are not always as simple as some people may think...
I am a programmer and my guess is that it would take quite some longer time than "a couple of hours". You would have to incorporate it to the player class, incorporate it to the collision checking, bug test it, balance it, tweak it, make new animations. You would also have to incorporate swimming into other beasts, make pathfinding for swimming NPCs possible in water etc.
I'm not saying it's a huge project or anything. Piranha Bytes could obviously have done it during their development time frame, but not in a couple of hours.
Let's say, I could with a team of 3, 1 programmer an animator and my self, get the job done in a couple of weeks.
TheDoctor
30.11.2012, 07:28
Let's say, I could with a team of 3, 1 programmer an animator and my self, get the job done in a couple of weeks.
A "couple of weeks" for three people implementing one relatively small gameplay feature might be a very long time depending on the time frame. Just saying. Also, how did you make that estimation? ;)
I've been playing Dark Souls lately and I think the PB crew should try that game too. It's much harder than Risen or Risen 2 but the combat is much more responsive, enjoyable and rewarding. There's so much variety in how you build your character and how different weapons work. Every weapon has it's own moveset and works differently depending if you wield it with one or both hands. There are many different damage types and weapon effects (bleed, poison, toxin etc). Combat animations are also much better and smoother than in Risen 2 so reading your opponents moves and dodging or counter-attacking them is actually possible.
I wish we could have Gothic 1, 2 and 3 with updated graphics and Dark Souls combat and weapon variety.
TheDoctor
02.12.2012, 09:07
^this
Also, more notably: The controls are dead simple. One button for block, one button for light attack, one button for hard attack, and some extra buttons for switching weapons and things like that. Really smart design, just like Gothic 1-2.
Ariogaisus
02.12.2012, 10:33
^this
Also, more notably: The controls are dead simple. One button for block, one button for light attack, one button for hard attack, and some extra buttons for switching weapons and things like that. Really smart design, just like Gothic 1-2.
Mouse wheel for switching weapons, left mouse button for light attack, right mouse button for block, holding down left mouse button for heavy/strong attack.
I still don't understand why PB didn't improve on Risen's combat system and made a new one. The first Risen game had more or less decent combat, it could've used tweaking but it was better than most combat systems in RPG's in my opinion.
yep, risen 1 actually had quite good combat, that was the last thing i would change....
TheDoctor
02.12.2012, 14:01
yep, risen 1 actually had quite good combat, that was the last thing i would change....
They could have added some more dynamics to it, like more combos and stuff. I found the Risen 1 combat system to be a bit too simple (at least compared to Gothic 1-2). But other than that, I agree, the controls were pretty good for mouse and keyboard. :)
Well yeah, improve yes, but not drastically change it.
TheDoctor
18.12.2012, 20:13
As some of you might already know I am the editor of a small gaming news website. I just handed "This Year's Biggest Disappointment" award to Risen 2. Mainly because of the fact that Risen had seemed to be a step in the right direction but with Risen 2... well, you know the rest of that story. Here's a translation:
Piranha Bytes made a reboot in their career with the first Risen, which was a pretty decent roleplaying game in a mediterranean setting, an open game world and an intrigueful plot. When Risen 2 was in the making, I couldn't wait to see how they would further develop the game concept, but when I finally got the game for reviewing, it showed to be the most dull, stiff and awkward attempt at mainstream-converted nonsense that I could possibly imagine.
Linear and uninteresting environments, a cluttered inventory and a total absence of those inumerable keypoints that was present in its predecessor. You can no longer swim in water,climb up things, the new firearms are ridiculous and most of it felt more or less like an unworty downgrade. On the game's forum the fans are singing songs of lament, and how Piranha Bytes could possibly regain their name again remains to be seen.
http://varvat.se/arets-besvikelse-risen-2/
It's a bit rough, I admit. But it pretty much sums up the emotions I have had towards Risen 2.
Do you agree or disagree with this award? I would like to hear.
Do you agree or disagree with this award? I would like to hear.
You forgot the predictable and unimaginary story. The entire plot is revealed within the first 10 minutes: Mara is evil, the Titan weapons can stop her and Steelbeard knows how to get them. And that’s exactly how it happens. There are no twists or surprises in the plot, nothing to uncover for the player. Even G2 (which was kind of a rush-job) did not reveal everything right at the start.
You also failed to mention the gruesome lack of lore. The entire world of R2 is based on clichés, not on the imagination of the authors.
Personally, I think these two aspects are more important than the inventory system. So while I might question your priorities when listing the flaws of the game, I have to agree with the general sentiment regarding R2.
TheDoctor
18.12.2012, 21:13
I actually never even learned the names of any of the important NPCs, so the story basically flew over my head. Anyways, I agree.
Edit: I replaced the swimming error with a point on the storytelling.
glumetzul
26.12.2012, 08:18
Based on the small excert you posted I must repeat my opinion about the lack of free climbing and swimming that aren't really that important. Sure they would have been nice but they aren't really relevant to the gameplay. Risen 2 has other huge problems and emphasizing on climbing and swimming just takes the focus away from big ass problems that ruined the game to minor ones that just bother a bit some guys.
TheDoctor
26.12.2012, 09:37
Based on the small excert you posted I must repeat my opinion about the lack of free climbing and swimming that aren't really that important. Sure they would have been nice but they aren't really relevant to the gameplay. Risen 2 has other huge problems and emphasizing on climbing and swimming just takes the focus away from big ass problems that ruined the game to minor ones that just bother a bit some guys.
I did not emphasize them, I used them as examples to illustrate the downgrade of interaction. And yes, Risen 2 had so many more problems. I wished I could have named them all, but I had to keep it short, and to me personally one of the main points of why Risen 2 sucked was that it felt like just about any other mainstream low-budget WPRG out there: stiff controls, stiff world, stiff interface, all of which ruined the actual, game feel, the realtime feedback loop petween player and game. Risen 1 felt much more fluid and responsive in it's controls and interface - and I highly doubt a well designed story could have made up for this in Risen 2.
And yes, the interface was a dealbreaker for me as well. Kai Rosenkranz once stated in an interview that Piranha Bytes didn't want to do a doll dressup game, which was the reason for why armours were in one piece back then. It was just so crucifying to see how they had abandoned that idea and instead built an entire doll-dressing-up interface out of the inventory in Risen 2.
We want to offer a natural game (Gothic III) with a wide range of freedom. A game where you can decide and fashion as much as possible by yourself. But we didn't want a game with a character who can be dressed up like a doll.
So, uh, yeah, the story sucked, the storytelling sucked and the pacing sucked, but the actual core gameplay was already broken and boring in Risen 2. No story in the world can fix a game which does not feel good to play, especially not if it includes realtime interaction where the need of realtime feedback (such as responsive animations, plannable actions and freedom of interaction) is ever so important. This is my point of view. :)
The story was basically shared to the players in the first 10 minutes of the game. Titan lords fight, Mara sucks. The end.
Degenhardt
19.01.2013, 17:28
tbh g2 combat wasnt as epic as u are remembering it. U could win EVERY fight with one move: when enemy attacks, jump back, attack 2 times, jump back 2-3 times to get some distance, when enemy attacks, jump back, ....
U beat everything with that with lvl1
TheDoctor
20.01.2013, 11:43
tbh g2 combat wasnt as epic as u are remembering it. U could win EVERY fight with one move: when enemy attacks, jump back, attack 2 times, jump back 2-3 times to get some distance, when enemy attacks, jump back, ....
U beat everything with that with lvl1
That's about as intelligent as saying you can reach lvl 99 from killing meatbugs. Who would go through with it and still enjoy the game?
I am replaying Risen 2 again. This time for the Inquisition. So far the firearms are pretty disappointing in comparison with voodoo. Voodoo at least made some quests more fun. The firearms are just a nuisance.
tbh g2 combat wasnt as epic as u are remembering it. U could win EVERY fight with one move: when enemy attacks, jump back, attack 2 times, jump back 2-3 times to get some distance, when enemy attacks, jump back, ....
U beat everything with that with lvl1
Even with snappers? The meat bugs had also rush at you, and sometimes you were fighting more then 1 enemy. Also timing it wasn't easy you would have to never make mistake, and succeed allot of times in a row. Timing based fighting can still be fun even if it is a bit repetitive.
Risen 2 is worse than Gothic 3 in the things that made Piranha Bytes great.
Bastardo
10.02.2013, 13:42
Maybe. I mean, Gothic 3 was obviously a screw up in development, but the really bad parts of Risen 2 are obviously deliberate and there's a lot of streamlining that doesn't really make sense. The first Risen was also streamlined in some ways in comparison to the Gothics but that was mostly in ways that made sense and didn't ruin the gameplay.
Exactly, the heavy streamlining annoys me the most. I don't know what were PB thinking, but they sacrificed replayability in favor of a crappy (BioWarian) streamlining with pseudo-choices. While Gothic was a disaster in many ways, you could still feel that game was made to offer the player as much as freedom as possible. I still consider it to be one of the better free-world action rpg's. The landscape design was superb in Gothic 3 but in Risen 2 it only perfectly shows the predominant and idiotic design choice to streamline it all.
After getting the free camera in Gothic 2 and flying above the ground for some time, I noticed that the design of the game was REALLY REALLY tubular. But you never felt it because of the wonderful craftsmanship. In Risen 2 the tubes are so in your face when it comes to design...
Delicieuxz
12.02.2013, 02:51
The areas where that is true are limited. There are also areas where that can't be said of them at all.
What's the point of Death Cult, for Christs sake. :rolleyes: So I might buff up a ghost I basically get at the very end of the whole game.
Risen 2 is full of useless skills.
Morgannin09
03.11.2013, 16:11
I found voodoo as a whole to be really underwhelming. You barely had any chance to use it, and its effects in combat were minimal, especially since many late-game enemies were immune to some of it. Potions being such short-term buffs, there was no good reason to invest in brewing them. They could have done so much with it, but as with everything else in the game, PB went too small.
Can't say I enjoyed the Guns gameplay that much either. Dirty Tricks is another useless set of skills. Can't think I ever used any of them during my play.
Morgannin09
03.11.2013, 20:07
Can't say I enjoyed the Guns gameplay that much either. Dirty Tricks is another useless set of skills. Can't think I ever used any of them during my play.
Yeah, like I said, just about everything in this game was terribly underutilized. Dirty tricks were good for distracting one foe so you could concentrate on another, but they were unreliable. Pulling a pistol during a sword fight was not a huge advantage because of their low damage. I never tried using coconuts in a fight but I heard that they have a chance of an instant knockout. I also never bought a parrot, but I imagine it would be a more reliable distraction than throwing sand or salt.
Basically I view all these gameplay elements as really gimmicky and also completely alien to Piranha Bytes. They've never tried to make a game like Risen 2 before, and it backfired, because everything came up short. I think they were afraid of overdeveloping the game and having a lot of complex, broken mechanics, so as a result, most of the mechanics were too simple and almost useless.
I tried the parrot and found it useless. It was a good distraction, but in the end I just mashed the mouse and killed anything anyway.
The speech skills were a welcome addition, but again, badly implemented. Speech skill checks were rare and yielded to no real advantages. Again just a waste of gold coins.
I hope for the next game PB will return to their classic character building system, just expand on it (like implementing some well-thought-out things from Risen 2, with a bigger variety of weapon and especially magic skills, as voodoo alone is quite impotent).
Actually, my biggest disappointment with Risen 2 concerns the way they portrayed Eldric, my favorite Risen character. He was such a crazy druid in the first game, but turned out into some sort of wise old reflective but above all SANE type of character. What a shame. They killed his personality.
Morgannin09
04.11.2013, 09:27
So all this talk of Risen 2's shortcomings made me want to play it again just to refresh my memory of it. Somehow I enjoyed it so much that I played for six hours straight.
I just like the way it's written, I feel like that is the game's strongest characteristic. Though it has a pretty bland and generic story, the characters are better scripted and events are a bit more exciting than the previous Risen or any of the Gothic games. That's not to say I don't like the old characters. Classic Gothic characters are all awesome, unique and lovable, but they won't exactly win Emmys for their performances. The weakest part of the dialogue in Risen 2 was in the intro, where it really seemed like they were rushing you into the story, and I don't know why that was. But apart from that, I really like Patty, Steelbeard, Sebastiano, and a few of the quips coming from assorted NPC's. And maybe I'm just easily impressed, but I found the more 'cinematic' nature of the game to be a positive thing. They did a pretty good job with most of the cutscenes, considering PB never really did cutscenes in any of their previous games, apart from a couple pre-rendered ones in the first two Gothics.
One thing I finally decided was that I would be perfectly fine with this new character and skill system, albeit more fleshed out, if they didn't jam it into an already-established title. My connection with Risen wasn't as strong as it was with Gothic, so I didn't take as negatively to all the changes as most other fans did, but I feel like they could have done a better job making this a totally new IP instead of taking the classic fantasy Risen and turning it suddenly into a totally new theme with vastly different gameplay and character mechanics.
Those were a lot of words and I apologize for that.
As for Eldric, I didn't find him to be such a 'crazy' or eccentric old dude in the first Risen. A bit addled, probably due to his seclusion, and I could tell they were trying to make him seem unbalanced, but he was extremely wise and helpful in the first game, not really the sort of comic relief that a typical crazy hermit would be expected to behave. My biggest disappointment with the Air Temple DLC was that they actually charged $10 for a 2-hour monster slashfest §gnah
Just a short answer as I am in a hurry:
I didn't find Eldric to be a comic relief, but he was extremely amusing. Bones in Risen 2 is more of a comic relief, I still like him a lot. :D
I liked the characters in Risen 2 quite well, just the crew members bothered me a bit. They lacked something personal, because they were always around you. Not like the friends from Gothic (Gorn and the rest), which actually had their own reasons, goals and stories. Their own motivation in the world. In Risen 2 you encounter the crew members, do a corresponding quest and that's it, basically.
Morgannin09
05.11.2013, 01:58
You have a point there, and I never really thought about that. I enjoyed the idea of having a constant companion during the game (except where the plot takes them away) but they had to sacrifice some of the believability and character by making them always available for the player. It would be cool if they at least programmed it so the companions would leave the ship and do their own thing while you were away, even if they just sit at the bar or go for a stroll on the beach.
Fleshing out the backstories of everyone would have been nice too. They did it with Patty more than the others, because of the relevance to Steelbeard and his treasure, but since she already had history with the Hero in Risen, it wasn't as necessary for her. I would have liked to know more about the other characters, their motivations, and giving them side quests/plots to follow would have been awesome.
What's the point of Death Cult, for Christs sake. :rolleyes: So I might buff up a ghost I basically get at the very end of the whole game.
Nope, you just play it in the wrong way. If you join the natives, you gain access to the Isle of the Dead immediately. That said you will have your tank companion for the majority of the game. Increasing the Death Cult will turn him literally into a terminator. Voodoo is absolutely fun if you play it right, on my second playthrough I've enjoyed it immensely.
Yeah, I got Steelbeard's Ghost right away, but still, a whole skill for the sake of one extra follower makes it quite bland (and the game much too easy). It would have been more fun if they had implemented ghost summoning into quests, like they did with controlling people. For example you could raise the spirits of found bodies, get and solve quests.
Yeah, I got Steelbeard's Ghost right away, but still, a whole skill for the sake of one extra follower makes it quite bland (and the game much too easy). It would have been more fun if they had implemented ghost summoning into quests, like they did with controlling people. For example you could raise the spirits of found bodies, get and solve quests.
It could be more diverse or wholly different, but the skill does the job: you spend a lot of points on that and at the end the game becomes super easy. :) I think the main problem is that the Risen 2 is too easy even on hard and people don't really need to use dirty tricks or voodoo, therefore both seem to be pointless. Plus voodoo is primarily not an offensive magic and many guides on the net will teach you that it is a waste of time to invest in voodoo, just because it does not have some damn fireball or something like that to kill off enemies from a distance.
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