I forgot how beautiful Gothic 2 is

[chopkinsca]

Most of the game faded from memory since it was long ago when I last played it. I recently bought it and am currently playing it. One thing I forgot about was how beautiful the game is. The texture work is superb and trees and foliage give a great impression of nature. Personally I think it looks far better than even Oblivion. I also love how dangerous they made nature. From the start, even the main roads are barely safe. It gives the land a sort of mysterious feeling. Wondering what is off the main path that you can't reach yet until you are stronger.

The town of korhinis is very well done. It gives a great sense of being an actual functional town. From the slums to the high class restricted areas. I love the addition of the herald reading the news and the water mage preaching to the crowd. I could just stand there in the crowd listening to Vatras (I think that's his name).

The feeling like you are actually part of the game world is one of the main reasons I love the first two Gothic games. It feels like the world was crafted with care. The true "zero to hero" aspect of the game is also something I really like. In gothic 2 you barely can make it as a farmer let alone someone who ends up a hero that everyone respects.

Long story short, Gothic 1 & 2 are the best games I've played.

[kabuto]

I totally agree with you! There has been no game other than Gothic that got me so immersed in playing, inside the history and even nervous of going through it. No other game has got me thinking about it all day and night, thinking about what to do, what could happen, or what will I do next. As you say, the feeling of the living world, the danger that is behind every corner, the weak you feel and the sense of fear, the music, sounds and voices..Man what a great game.
This is the main difference with the rest of the games. I have just finished playing Skirym and I must tell you I really enjoyed the world. It has really nice areas and places. But I was not anxious for playing it. The world feel empty from live and danger. Even when you are weak, you have no worries of going anywhere.
Since the first time I played gothic back in 2001, I fell in love for the rest of my life.

[CrashMorraKan]

i had to turn on the harbor/khorinis music while reading your comments, to feel at home.:D i also playing skyrim since october, until today, and will continue play tomorrow... and i try to compere it to gothic games... well it is a good game, but gothic stays for life, stuck in your blood!
gothic>skyrim.

[shrekdj]

Gothic 1 and 2 easily be well regarded as the best game of its time :)

BUT comparing with Oblivion seems too much, the latter is definitely better putting you into the same amazing exploration but a lot massive and highly immersive attractive world, mainly customization aspect is the best compared to Gothic series.

Oblivion is better simply because of the time and technology present during its production that enhances further the quality aspect.

If I had to compare Gothic than Morrowind is clearly lacking the punch that Gothic delivers even with smaller size as to Morrowinds large pack of content, Gothic is remarkable as ever and the most important thing is the gameplay well-designed and deeply satisfying, combat is challenging and the world seems alive and appealing compared to Morrowind where Characters just stand like they have no sense or life to interact with which soon turns boring.

All of that aside, I play both Gothic and Oblivion, and Skyrim too, for the fact that each stands on its own and it's difficult to find much fault with any of it. :)

[Nisarg]

BUT comparing with Oblivion seems too much, the latter is definitely better putting you into the same amazing exploration but a lot massive and highly immersive attractive world, mainly customization aspect is the best compared to Gothic series.

Gothic and Gothic 2 did hold an edge over Oblivion in some ways, like a more consistent voice-acting, more detailed wilderness terrain (no, polycount isn't everything), animations for just about every action (no matter how awkward), and a seamless transition to nearly every indoor spaces.

Of course, there are other advantages which come down to personal opinion, such as the combat system, the general look and feel (seriously, Oblivion features the worst usage of HDR till date), the simplified skill and inventory system and teachers (teachers were entirely optional in Oblivion), the implementation of the main quests (G1/G2 are FAR FAR ahead of Oblivion in this matter), etc.


Oblivion is better simply because of the time and technology present during its production that enhances further the quality aspect.

Tech isn't everything. It's how you use it that matters more. Oblivion looks better without the HDR turned on, and Bethesda's usage of heightmaps was what gave heightmapping such negative connotations in the first place. And its shadowing is useless.

[Bastardo]

Indeed, Gothic II is great even when it comes down purely to visuals. The developers did the best they could do with whatever they had at the time and the graphics aged quite well in my opinion. Sharp, realistic textures and none of that post-process overkill of more recent games.

[Hellbilly]

Indeed, Gothic II is great even when it comes purely to visuals. The developers did the best they could do with whatever they had at the time and the graphics aged quite well in my opinion. Sharp, realistic textures and none of that post-process overkill of more recent games.

Yeah. In places, at least. The forests are still really good looking if you ask me, especially considering the technical limitations of the time; in the age-old comparison of Bethesda and PB, I think neither has in subsequent games managed to create as atmospheric forests as those in Khorinis. But then, some of the places in the barren Valley Of Mines look very outdated and blocky to an eye accustomed to more modern visuals and graphics.

The two first Gothics are clearly showing their age in many things, graphics included, but at the core, the quintessence of the games, PB managed to do so many fundamental things right that aged graphics, aged control schemes and the aged, at times unwieldy interface are nothing but trifles. They are still awesome games comparing to today's games. Or games of any era, if you ask me.

[SkullX]

Gothic 2 has great graphics for 2012, they were 'GODLIKE' back in 2002, everyone was 'o.O wow the grahphics' back then...Long live Gothic > World.

[Hellbilly]

Gothic 2 has great graphics for 2012, they were 'GODLIKE' back in 2002, everyone was 'o.O wow the grahphics' back then...Long live Gothic > World.

Um, no. It has very outdated graphics for 2012. Which is not a point of criticism towards the game, merely an observation.

[warstrike]

Also don`t forget the music. The story /atmosphere and the music beats the hell out of outdated graphics. For me it`s like a tradition ,every year for the past 9 years i play gothic 1&2 just once and those are the only games i`ll never get bored of.

[CrashMorraKan]

gothic will be played for many many years to come. and may it NEVER be forggoten!

[Onisuzume]

Just wondering...
But how hard would it to do a high-poly/retexture of most in-game models and such?
Looking at Morrowind, and what they've managed to do with that in the past decade-ish could set some sort of standard.

[Nisarg]

Just wondering...
But how hard would it to do a high-poly/retexture of most in-game models and such?
Looking at Morrowind, and what they've managed to do with that in the past decade-ish could set some sort of standard.

High poly could be done with the existing tools IMO, but the first thing to do would be to update the renderer. Which, according to people who tried messing with it, is one hell of a job. After the renderer has been updated, and the game uses DX9c, we could make it all high poly with high-res textures, including normal maps, specular maps, etc. But, yeah, it will take a lot of time.

[shrekdj]

Gothic and Gothic 2 did hold an edge over Oblivion in some ways....Tech isn't everything

I had to put this that as for the comparison my obeservation between Oblivion and Gothic was under the RPG purely on the basis of what improvements are seen among them in respect to the standards set by them as a game as possible!.. That never meant that any of the two were downright the worst. I was observing what's the best gameplay aspect in both of them similarly what you mentioned regarding HUD which is simplistic in Gothic compared to Oblivion.
As for the Technical aspect, would like to repeat the following quote shared.



Um, no. It has very outdated graphics for 2012. Which is not a point of criticism towards the game, merely an observation.


All in all, the Gothic series still holds the title for best single player RPG for a world of craft and gameplay factors that has been introduced setting a trend seen in many later titles that are equally brilliant in improving those.


Gothic does not fall far behind than Elder Scrolls Oblivian and even Skyrim.


The game is essentially unchanged in many aspects, whether Skyrim or Witcher. However Gothic is not totally without lack of some amazing improvements that I'm role playing in Skyrim.


Hopefully Gothic will emerge in the near future in designing a character or replacements for actual creative customization that are the selling points of many modern RPG titles.

[Nisarg]

Hopefully Gothic will emerge in the near future in designing a character or replacements for actual creative customization that are the selling points of many modern RPG titles.

I personally hope that there is no Gothic in the near future. You see, Piranha Bytes, the developers, seem to be moving away from some of the good things of Gothic. And they have themselves mentioned in an interview that they'd like to do something different and even their current pirate RPG (Risen 2) isn't too different for them. I guess they don't want to do RPGs, at least not in a medieval setting any more.

And if anyone else wants to do another Gothic, I would advise them to create a new series rather than continuing Gothic. In fact, I would probably advise PB not to touch Gothic either.

[andorian22]

I still don't understand why anyone compares Gothic and Oblivion,

like comparing apples und oranges.

the 2 Gothics are special not so much for their good graphics,
rather primitive now, but by the atmosphere they create

[eSPee]

i had to turn on the harbor/khorinis music while reading your comments, to feel at home.:D i also playing skyrim since october, until today, and will continue play tomorrow... and i try to compere it to gothic games... well it is a good game, but gothic stays for life, stuck in your blood!
gothic>skyrim.
Elder scrolls is a little dumbed down. At least Oblivion, you start as nothing, meet a important personality who trusts you for no good reason, gives you a task, something something you fight against demons. In Gothic you start as a zero, have to gain everybody's trust, climb your way to the top, not hack your way through endless waves of monsters, purchase powerful equipment, not available through grinding (slaying dragons, taking oblivion stones). Also in Elder Scrolls everybody is super nice to you. Nobody bullies you, disrespects you, no corruption, everybody is good. In Gothic it's kinda the opposite. Stronger bandits bully you, you can't kill bandits at level 1, stats don't regenerate, etc. Not to mention in Gothic you have to take different stories if you want to change class. In Elder Scrolls you can be a bandit or an overlord razing cities and you'll follow the same story.

I am refering to Oblivion and Skyrim. I have never played Morrowind.



And andorian22 has a point. It's like comparing oranges to mandarines. Mandarines are tastier but smaller, whereas oranges are bigger but taste worse. Where Gothic is the mandarine and Elder Scrolls the orange, bigger size means bigger graphics and better taste means better gameplay/story.



Edit: I really messed the last lines can some mod fix them?

[shrekdj]

I personally hope that there is no Gothic in the near future. You see, Piranha Bytes, the developers, seem to be moving away from some of the good things of Gothic. And they have themselves mentioned in an interview that they'd like to do something different and even their current pirate RPG (Risen 2) isn't too different for them. I guess they don't want to do RPGs, at least not in a medieval setting any more.


I am eagerly waiting for Risen 2, for the fact that it looks super cool bringing some nice memories of No One Lives forever a cult FPS and combining RPG elements in form of new techniques in Combat. As far as the previews impression goes it really shows that PB finally in the mood of something different. But, the previews give the feel of another Gothic. Some interesting links though :-
Gameplay preview 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt6ZOaPHBkU&feature=plcp&context=C4ae9d27VDvjVQa1PpcFNeHew2CUmzII8N9IRACB6aSa8FVRpFq6w%3D)

Gameplay preview 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTWI_46TaMI)

Its nice to have something different if it feels new!.. Risen 2 certainly looks new. :)

[Nisarg]

We have an entire section dedicated to Risen and Risen 2 here (http://forum.worldofplayers.de/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=610).

Personally, I'm worried about quite a few things. Even in the screenshots, just look at the distant (or rather, not-so-distant) vegetation. Compare that to vegetation at the same distance in Gothic 2.

Risen 2 also seems to be rather heavily clichéd even though we were promised something less so. And above all, it has DRM in the form of Steam, which for various reasons I refuse to accept. Not to mention a day one DLC that, judging from the previews, seems to have been ripped out of the game solely for the purpose of making it a DLC.

[fragonard]

The DLC part is probably what annoys me the most but I'm also very sorry to hear that they will be using numerous QTEs; that could end being even worse.

I'm afraid the PB of Gothic is gone. I have followed Gothic faithfully since 2004 but I may skip this one.

[chopkinsca]

Graphics mean nothing if they aren't implemented properly. Style and realism are two different things for graphics, but both play on each other. Gothic 2 has the right balance of style and realism. Same goes for the world to explore. A huge amount of land to explore is nothing if there isn't anything to find in nooks, crannies and caves. Gothic 2 also did well in this aspect. I enjoy exploring a little off path and finding a few items. The items may not be great, but it is rewarding to get something for exploring. I found in the Elder Scroll games, most of the only places with items were the caves/ruins you had to switch maps for.

[Nisarg]

The DLC part is probably what annoys me the most but I'm also very sorry to hear that they will be using numerous QTEs; that could end being even worse.

So far, I've heard nothing positive about the QTEs. They all seem to be triggering a trap (which, unlike Risen, cannot be avoided) which is avoided by some sort of ridiculous jump by NH. Said jump requires the player to smash spacebar repeatedly till the jump is completed.


Graphics mean nothing if they aren't implemented properly. Style and realism are two different things for graphics, but both play on each other.

:A You have just won +1 Internetz! :gratz

Though its believability that matters, rather than realism.

[ICFabian]

Dunno about Gothic 2, but I've been trying out Gothic 1 (in German, alongside the Welt der Verurteilten mod) and it's truly an innovative experience. Perhaps it's the new language, or the tiny little edits effected by the mod, but I'm feeling at home again in the Colony.

[fragonard]

Have you tried the Velaya mod for Gothic2? I think it might give the same feeling but it's even longer to play at about 30+ hours.
In addition, you can get English subtitles.

[chopkinsca]

I just experienced one of the reasons why Gothic 2 is so awesome. It was in the valley below Xardas's tower, where Lester set up camp. I saved that area until after I did most of what I could do in Khorinis city. I head leather armour and a wolf knife (couldn't afford anything better yet), so even young wolves were still a problem. When I reached the valley itself, things became really tense. The foliage is so dense that it is hard to see very far. I didn't have any arrows, so I couldn't scan the area with my bow. The moving slowly through the forest with my knife out, carefully moving so I don't run into more than one wolf at a time and the music gets really tense. Adding to that is the ambient sounds intermixed with the sound of wolves I'm listening for. Playing with headphones really enhanced the experience. Everything just seemed to come together so well. I actually felt like I was in NH's body. Feeling so weak and vulnerable, something games don't do to me often. Every small victory over a small wolf was a big deal. I'm glad I finally bought the game after so many years. Such a shame it's an underrated game.

[Onisuzume]

a wolf knife (couldn't afford anything better yet), so even young wolves were still a problem
I think I found the problem. :p
Personally, I find the wolf knife to be utter rubbish.
Also, you say you've already been in Khorinis, so how come you don't have a better weapon?
Like that spiked club you can find in that cave between Xardas' tower and Khorinis.

[chopkinsca]

I think I found the problem. :p Personally, I find the wolf knife to be utter rubbish. Also, you say you've already been in Khorinis, so how come you don't have a better weapon? Like that spiked club you can find in that cave between Xardas' tower and Khorinis. I don't recall coming across a spiked club. I was in both the cave that leads to Lester and the cave with the bandits. I also couldn't afford a better weapon in Khorinis.

[fragonard]

I don't recall coming across a spiked club. I was in both the cave that leads to Lester and the cave with the bandits. I also couldn't afford a better weapon in Khorinis.
IIRC, one of the bandits is carrying one. Also there are a few free weapons to be picked up: a pickaxe on the farm and a rusty sword in the ditch to the right of the south gate.

[Nisarg]

I'm not sure if I remember right but I think that in the inventory, the Wolf knife is listed before the Spiked club by virtue of its damage. But seriously, your average goblin has a better weapon (because it actually hits people).

[Buckingham]

Gothic I and Gothc II NotR are the best games for us, not for everyone simply because at their time they were the best games of the genre out there, with cutting-edge graphics , superb storyline and great gameplay. These 2 are the games that won our hearts (the hearts of those who played them when they were released or at least until oblivion was released ) and what is in your heart will be there with you forever.

It is too bad that people nowadays when they see skyrim they are like WOW and when they see G1 they say ...bahhh too old for me. Quality is not important nowadays, graphics and mass-killing things is.
So for me at least Gothic 1 and 2 > any other game ever.

[SkullX]

Is there a % procent of people that played Gothic 1 and 2 and said 'This game sux, i wont remember it'?

[ICFabian]

Is there a % procent of people that played Gothic 1 and 2 and said 'This game sux, i wont remember it'?

Probably. I'm sure most of them have never heard of WoG, so there's probably no way to find out :P

[leroy1985]

well i wish i played gothic 2 back in the day when it was released, im going through it now first time and i love it, BUT it shows its age, the voice acting is the worst, i love how you progress start weak then become bad ass, like ive just got the orc slayer and the magic bow wich isnt great seems there not much ammo, but i definatly prefer gothic to tes games, im a bit gutted they removed world interactions and animations for potions and stuff in risen 2, that was allways piranah byes signiture, shame, but im playing gothic 3 now with patch 1.75 and whilst im still having performence problems its just about playable, my first go on gothic 3 too, i still havnt completed gothic 2 night of the raven, im at the bandit camp in night of the raven, but moved on to gothic 3 for the better graphics and slightly better voice acting. great games, the first is just too old for me, i knnow i ould of loved it back then though

[andorian22]

gothic 3 for the better graphics

ha, even G3 is looking old now, too, graphics-wise but G2 is special, no
matter what the graphics look like:)

[Hampu]

well i wish i played gothic 2 back in the day when it was released, im going through it now first time and i love it, BUT it shows its age, the voice acting is the worst

Heh, I still think the voice acting is awesome in the first two Gothics. Though then again I've never been able to discern bad voice acting from good. As far as I'm concerned bad voice acting is when the character shows no emotion or is monotone or annoying.

As for Gothic 2 being beautiful, well, I wouldn't really say that, not anymore, but part of the charm, for me at least, is the graphic in the first two G's. It does it's job so you can see what's what. I'm one of those gamers that doesn't care about the graphics of a game, as long as it shows what's what and has a consistent visual style and isn't cartoony.

[Nikolai81]

I love how politically incorrect the Gothic series is. You can only play as a man, all the alpha characters are strong masculine men, and nearly every woman is a housewife, waitress, or prostitute. I remember reading one of Mike Hoge's profiles, where he writes that he has a specific philosophy about women that he won't go into at the moment... I've always wondered about that. In any case, it's very refreshing.

[MatTheCat]

but i definatly prefer gothic to tes games, im a bit gutted they removed world interactions and animations for potions and stuff in risen 2, that was allways piranah byes signiture, shame, but im playing gothic 3 now with patch 1.75 and whilst im still having performence problems its just about playable, my first go on gothic 3 too, i still havnt completed gothic 2 night of the raven, im at the bandit camp in night of the raven, but moved on to gothic 3 for the better graphics and slightly better voice acting. great games, the first is just too old for me, i knnow i ould of loved it back then though

PB have sold thier soul to big business capital and thier market analysists and hopefully Risen 2 sales will be poor enough to show them the error of thier ways. F**k Risen 2.

If you have just started playing Gothic 3 for the first time, then I recommend the CM 2.4 patch, which totally overhauls the graphics giving the world overall much darker textures.....a big improvement in my opinion. You also might want to install the QP 4.2 beforehand, but use the CM 2.4 to disable the quests (if you are not playing in German) in order to get access to various other new stuff which only adds to the game.

Gothic 3 graphics may be 'dated', but demonstrates what PB can do so well in terms of how imaginative, ornate, and unique they can build a virutal RPG world. I have a very strong computer capable of playing any modern game totally maxed out, but no other game's graphics or 'virtual world' gives me so much pleasure and immersion as does wandering through the forests, farms, and towns of Myrtana. Admittedly, Skyrim provided for some stunning visuals but as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, Bethesda's virtual worlds are basically just big pretty but basically empty time/space barriers between the linear dungeons where 90% of the action elements of the game takes place or the towns where 90% of the games dialogue takes place, and wherein the rules of the game change and the hero's hands are tied from commiting the kinds of action that he can commit outside the town walls. In Elders Scrolls, due the general emptiness and pointlessness of the world, thier is no great motivation to explore the land and seek out any interesting nooks n crannies. The Gothic worlds on the other hand are teaming with life, interesting features, dangers and treasure which is rewarding to find.

Whilst Gothic 3 has the most stunning immersive, and complete virtual RPG world of any computer game, the interaction between the characters in G3 is on the whole very simplistic and the quests lack the same kind of intrigue as existed in those of Gothic 2. Therefore Gothic 2 remains the best RPG game of all time.

Anyone who says that Oblivion, Fallout, Skyrim are better than the Gothics is a stupid c**t.

[Celestial]

"Anyone who says that Oblivion, Fallout, Skyrim are better than the Gothics is a stupid c**t. "

You won't get any quarrel with me over that but instead...
I would say they have...Scheiße für Gehirne!:D

[Eidolon]

Anyone who says that Oblivion, Fallout, Skyrim are better than the Gothics is a stupid c**t.

"I'll automatically assume that you're stupid just because you happen to like X more than Y"

Yes, that's how retarded you sound.

[Nisarg]

"I'll automatically assume that you're stupid just because you happen to like X more than Y"

Yes, that's how retarded you sound.

+1..

[4ltair]

One of my wishes would be to be able to forget everything about Gothic and thus, to play it again from the beginning, just like the first time.

This games will never die in my memory nor will the joy them has brought me.

[MatTheCat]

One of my wishes would be to be able to forget everything about Gothic and thus, to play it again from the beginning, just like the first time.

This games will never die in my memory nor will the joy them has brought me.

Yep.....I kind of have that pleasure at the moment with Gothic 3. Although I have already played through a lot of the game already (although never even nearly got close to completion), with the add-ons and the latest CSP 1.75 patch, it is all feeling very new to me and I haven't felt myself so immersed in a game world since Risen 1.....or perhaps even since Gothic 2.

Hard to compare but I think I am possibly enjoying this play through of Gothic 3 more than I did Risen, as now that the game actually runs smooth, nothing can compare to the beauty and ornateness of the Gothic 3 world........i am playing for hours and hours at a time, staying up too late, arguing with gf over it and basically exibiting all the socially negative hallmarks of being totally absorbed in a computer game.

[Baal Tondral]

Just try to play Gothic 2 with the first person camera and you'll shit your pants the moment you see a snapper appear from nowhere running at you