Please sign it if you are against the use of DRM for Risen.
I add the folowing links to show you why drm is bad and not worth it:
More about DRM here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management
Myths about DRM, why it is bad: http://geocities.com/foobar_77/drm-myths.html
Some thoughts about copy protection: http://geocities.com/foobar_77/thoughts-on-cp.html
Anyways, guys, spread the news, and please vote it. It is a protest not only against drm for risen, but also against drm in general. And Risen being special for us, it counts more, so don;t let it be ruined by this kind of things.
View Poll Results: Which copy protection method would you tolerate as buying customer?
Simple DVD check
SecuROM (without DRM)
ProtectCD, WTM, others
Serial number (no online verification)
DRM without installation limit
DRM with installation limit
Handbook questions, code wheels, etc.
None at all
- 57. You may not vote on this poll
26.04.2009 02:20 -
Petition agains the use of DRM for Risen#1
26.04.2009 02:39 #2Originally Posted by Maladiq
26.04.2009 02:45 #3
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
yeah i do too think it's a bit early for something like that. instead of panicing, lets rether have a discussion about it? I mean, i already said, if there will be limitation in using the game meaning that there is possibility that i won't be able to play game that i payed for for some period of time, i ain't buying it. But nothing is for sure right now, so lets try to have argumented discussion instead.
Especially as publishers don't really like to openly debate about these things with fans.
26.04.2009 02:54 -
26.04.2009 03:08 #5
26.04.2009 03:17 -
Since when is a petition against something a start for a good discussion? You haven't explained them anything, you're just asking for their opinion although they have no clue how such a protection would work. Should I start a petition which says: "Do you want that Piranha Bytes does another game after Risen?" That would be the same idiotic move, eh?
Actually the reaction of you guys is telling me more about the discussion than the discussion itself. And that drives me to my conclusion that there is no way to talk with you in a meaningfull way because everytime there only a hint that someone in the universe is thinking about something is setting of an alarm bell in your head.
26.04.2009 03:21 #7
26.04.2009 03:23 #8
26.04.2009 03:24 #9
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
well i do think all of you, doberlec included, are overreacting.
Doberlec, this kind of limitation in games usually has reactions like this. I do agree we should talk more about it (with arguments), but you must understand also us, fans, that this is one system we all hate enough to not buy game if necesary. We can talk about it, but to be honest, i'm not sure if there's much to be talked about. It's clear you would really like to have this limitation thingy, while it's also sure we all hate that thing, and i don't think there is middle ground here. Risen either will have limitation system, or not. So if we proceed, it's gonna be either us trying to convince you how bad this is, or you trying to convince us how good it is, but both cases will fail, as we all stand strongly with our beliefs on this subject.
26.04.2009 03:29 #10
Now let me define our aim: I need to find a way that our game doesn't get pirated on day 1 and on the first weeks. Is DRM doing the trick? Maybe, but only if it is accepted by the buyers and that in my opinion depends on some variables. Because there is a service called Steam which is in fact selling games and is very successfull. So there is a way to acceptance.
26.04.2009 03:30 #11
Petitions may serve as a bad publicity for a game. I do not know guys how for you, but for me these petitions on fan sites indicate that it is likely that there is something wrong with the game, and that I should steer clear from it. I want Risen to succeed, and I would not want to scare off some casual gamers.
Also why not to leave it in the hands of the publisher? If the publisher makes a bad choice, he looses much more then we do. It is a publisher who is more concerned with making a right choice. So let him decide what to do. The publisher has enough professinals to do it, while our perspective may be kinda limited.SKEPTICISM IS A VIRTUE!
Лидия: Любимый, я беременна!
26.04.2009 03:35 #12
26.04.2009 03:35 #13
Originally Posted by Zocky
Originally Posted by vivaxardas
EDIT: Will carry on the discussion in the original thread...
26.04.2009 03:40 #14
26.04.2009 12:00 #15
Empire total war has some seriously annoying protection systems, and at those times I don't have internet it will be those games I would play, but apparently that's not possible.
Same applies for risen.
Empire total war took also loooong time to install because of all the actication bullshit, and if I can compare it with anything, it would have to be installing sims 2 with all it's expansions. A real time consuming process. I don't want to do alot of work just to be able to install a game.
The promise of the protection might be removed in a patch is not good enough at all. The install limitation thingy would seriously harm my possibilites of buying the game, and my opinion of deepsilver as a name.
Please keep to the regular insert cd protection (only make it work this time, unlike G2 which had some problems on especially newer computers). Many people care about what they put on their machine, and games that include programs that use surveilance to check if we use a legal version is kinda like hacking.
Protection systems may harm sales, SPORE. While others say they increase sales. For Empire Total War I dont know, but I bought the game, a bit much to pay for a new game nowadays, but I had tried it and it was very good. My overall experience fell drastically when I tried to install it, and I got to know that theyve put quite some annoying protection systems. They managed to lure the money out of me, but what happens when they create a new game. I will definitely check out what kinda protection systems they use then, and hear what others say about it first.
Here's an honest opinion of will I buy the game or not.
Most likely I will buy the game (even with an annoying protection system), but that's because it's PB and the game seems to correct the errors from G3.
With protection systems I might still buy the game, but deepsilver will go from a (+) to a (-) in my book and also harm future releases. I will also most likely wait to hear others opinions of it though, and maybe even wait til price has dropped.
If I hear bad reviews, buggy or another G3 failure I will also wait to check out if they'll fix it.
Release a good demo before release that gives the gamer a taste of what the game is like. Many use illegal downloads as a demo trial, only problem is their then less likely to buy the game.
Have something materialistic which you don't get by downloading and put this in regular version (not only collectors edition). That won't cost you very much but give gamers a reason to buy the game. The internet download version should then be cheaper than the buy in games store version.
I hope if Deepsilver have any plans of a protection systems, they'll redecide and stick to the old, insert correct cd.
26.04.2009 13:59 #16
26.04.2009 15:21 #17
I say it was a great idea to start a petition, so that PB and the publisher will know the consequences of choosing to use DRM for Risen.
Before you actually make up your mind, you will have this to think about.
I have only one thing to say, if the game is good, it will sell, if not, don't blame the pirates that is just silly, even pirates buy games that they love... keep that in mind.
26.04.2009 17:25 #18
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
Thank you Doberlec for participating in this discussion. It's good to see a publisher engaging in dialog with the customer base. Such is a virtue I see very rarely out side of the independent sphere, and I think as a practice that if continued, will only strengthen your company as time goes on. This helps me as a customer respect Deep Silver and will ensure that when I see your logo on more products I will remember that you have communicated positively with the community and take into account our opinions. I am pleased to see these business practices and I hope you continue.
Please do not make the mistake of being "driven out" of a discussion such as this. The fans here do not mean any harm to you personally or to your company. For many customers this is a very sensitive subject so it is inevitable that there will be emotions abound. To shut the door and walk away from talking over the issue because some people may get defensive/argumentative/hostile, only makes people loose respect for your company, which does not equal increased sales. Staying involved until a solution that makes everyone happy is obtained will impress people, and impressed people means more sales.
Anyways, on to my points:
In my opinion DRM is counter productive, you can slap as much of it on a product as you like and there will always be a way to circumvent it. Leaving the pirate untouched because the DRM is removed, while the legitimate customer gets to bear the burden. Taking Steam for instance, it didn't save Empire: Total war from having a day one pirate copy out on torrents, which in turn made it easier for the user to play without needing Steam running in the background (which for one reason or another there seems to be many individuals out there who cannot stand a middleman of any sort).
In this day and age, peer-to-peer distribution is a fact of life, and as time goes on more and more of the population will share more and more information. Heck, you have Ray Kurzwiel out there talking about how in a decade or two people will be emailing each other their favorite toaster/computer/car designs, from which people will have their nanobots build for them (Could you envision the uproar from customers if their new legitimate BMW wouldn't let them drive to work one day because it incorrectly identified itself as a pirate version? Or what if they just randomly shut off while in use? What if after every 3-5 oil changes/tune-ups/hardware modifications, the car would cease to run, and you would have to call both BMW and the Auto Rights Management company to reset it for you. What if in the illegitimate BMW you didn't have to worry about if it was going to run when you want it to?). If there's something out there that's popular it will be shared, just like how people pass out reefers these days. Therefor the only absolute way to not have your product pirated is to not make it at all, however you can't pay the bills that way.
Something I find amusing is that "no DRM" is now used to market games. Independent companies are taking pieces (and sometimes chucks) of the market, selling games with no more protection than a serial key. Look at Stardock pulling in a 10+ to 1 profit on some of it's unprotected titles and their games are pirated just as much as every other popular series is. Apparently not releasing the product until it's complete, fully supporting your products with patches until all bugs are squashed, releasing plenty of free add-ons in between expansions or sequels, deep interaction with the community, and supporting modding efforts seems to catch peoples respect and makes them want to support the company. Who would have thought? It wouldn't be very hard to show other examples of this trend working.
In conclusion, I think the best direction for Deep Silver to go, if it decides to combat "profit loss" due to the piracy of Risen, would be to give those pirates honest reasons to purchase the product than focusing on proven futile attempts to punish them or lock them out of the game. Just because they've pirated the game does not mean they are not still a potential customer. For Instance, lets say a torrent springs up on thepiratebay, Deep Silver could make a comment "Hey guys, I'm so and so from Deep Silver, Publisher of Risen. We hope you appreciate all the hard work PB has done! If you enjoy Risen, we would be grateful if you purchased a copy here at *online retailer* to help us develop more games like this for you. Also, if you have any questions or comments please do not hesitate to join our forum here at *Official Risen forum*! Looking forward to hear from you! Thanks alot, so and so!". Not only would that impress those who read it, the act alone could generate word of mouth advertisements. "Holy Sh*t, that publisher actually seems human! ...And all this time I thought all publishers were just money hoarding spawns of hell that treated customers like cattle! I think it won't kill me to support their title then!" etc. I'm sure there are tons of ways Deep Silver can reach across the aisle like this that would truly benefit everyone and develop some admiration for the company as well.
Thank you, I hope this helps.
26.04.2009 17:31 #19
I can say that its annoying when you need an Internet connection to do the activation for example...What people with ought any Internet connection should do?
The main target for the publisher is that the copy protection will hold for a week until it will be cracked. Because its 100% sure that it will be cracked one day or another.
To say the truth even if i have a game original, i will use a crack to play it with ought a DVD.
The reasons: Annoying...every time you need to play you have to insert it into the DVD rom.
And most important. Scratches...I have the impression that the DVDs are of very poor quality. I am VERY careful, i never drop them on the floor or on sharp surfaces and into a month they are full of scratches. I almost destroyed my Rome Total War CD...I uninstalled it and i couldnt install it later because it was full of scratches...
Ever thought to sell the games into a USB flash drive instead of DVDs?
26.04.2009 17:32 #20
As long as there won't be any instalation limit(Spore) or won't be able to play it because of DRM(Clear Sky),I don't have nothing against.
In this case,most people know Risen from internet,not from tv or radio so if there will be an internet check(or how you guys call it),I don't see what's the problem.I wouldn't care if I lose 5 minutes to be able to play Risen,I wouldn't care.
Although I do hope you don't use Starforce or Tages,since they have a bad reputation with adding some bugs,even problems with installing the game even if you have the original cd.
In any case,Deep Silver is the only one who decides what they will do,so don't really see the point of the petition.
Oh,and I won't be dissapointed if DS will use DRM (Tages).After all,they have a life too.