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  1. #1 Zitieren
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    Urghhh...

    How bad is this nonsense and where exactly does it fit into a PB game?

    Slow awkward controls, and the Beastie just pops in and out of the water anywhere it pleases with no rhyme nor reason. Can't just sit still and wait for it to come to me either cos it will just smash into my hull if I do that.

    I was growing a bit colder on this game of late due to the fact that I am now carrying around a musket that takes no skill to use and results in 1 hit kills on most enemies. My Battle Hammer is pretty lethal as well just as all my other stats. I have 35K of 'Ruhm' points to use but just don't see any need to use them. Was still enjoying watching the game unfold......up until this sea battle nonsense that I really don't think I can be bohered with at all....perhaps it is because I am playing on Ultra difficulty?
    MatDerKater ist offline

  2. #2 Zitieren
    Warrior Avatar von The Ore Baron
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    I remember the first sea battle giving me some problems on 'hard', so I'm not entirely surprised it can be challenging on 'ultra'. Just keep at it, learn the attack patterns of the monster. There may be some luck involved, too.
    The Ore Baron ist offline

  3. #3 Zitieren
    Knight Avatar von catalinux
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    I felt the same about the sea monsters battles the first time I met them in Risen3. It took me something like 2 hours to get used with the controls and finally defeat the first sea monster.

    When I played Risen3 for the second time, I enjoyed the first sea monster battle. But for the second sea monster battle, it took me (again) 2 hours to defeat this one. Than, right before going to meet the final boss, I said to myself "let's go one last time to Tharanis, to learn Battle Mage, and to Kila to transform two raw... hearts to eat them for +10 healt each". Well, all nice in Tharanis, but on the way to Kila... another (the third) fu$$ing monster. So I said to myself "fu$$ this, just reload a previous savegame".

    So I reloaded, met the final boss, and using a ice rune, I finished him after a few blows. I don't know about firearms, but with 190 crystal magic it was like a holiday in Wonderland.
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    I felt the same about the sea monsters battles the first time I met them in Risen3. It took me something like 2 hours to get used with the controls and finally defeat the first sea monster.

    When I played Risen3 for the second time, I enjoyed the first sea monster battle. But for the second sea monster battle, it took me (again) 2 hours to defeat this one. Than, right before going to meet the final boss, I said to myself "let's go one last time to Tharanis, to learn Battle Mage, and to Kila to transform two raw... hearts to eat them for +10 healt each". Well, all nice in Tharanis, but on the way to Kila... another (the third) fu$$ing monster. So I said to myself "fu$$ this, just reload a previous savegame".

    So I reloaded, met the final boss, and using a ice rune, I finished him after a few blows. I don't know about firearms, but with 190 crystal magic it was like a holiday in Wonderland.
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  5. #5 Zitieren
    Adventurer Avatar von Misanthrope
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    Zitat Zitat von MatDerKater Beitrag anzeigen
    Urghhh...

    How bad is this nonsense and where exactly does it fit into a PB game?

    Slow awkward controls, and the Beastie just pops in and out of the water anywhere it pleases with no rhyme nor reason. Can't just sit still and wait for it to come to me either cos it will just smash into my hull if I do that.
    Sea battles. 45 to 1 hour of repetition until you get lucky. Neither fun nor enjoyable. Another major concept broken. Namely, "if the enemy is too strong come back later", in this case. The phrase "PB game" has almost lost it's meaning since they've abandoned nearly every concept that was in there from the beginning. Too much of boring reflex based mechanics, from mini games to boss battles have replaced careful character development, smart investments and puzzle-like parts (from Gothic). Ship battles are disgrace to the genre. Ok, I might be too harsh, but really. How can you expect from someone who grew up with the previous titles to be amazed with this lame mechanics. If someone gave me a 1000 euros to try to defend this, I wouldn't know how. Of course it could've been so much better and fun if one could, for example, upgrade your ship, buy new canons or even use magic (like some kind of liquid that burns on the water surface to prevent the monster coming from the rear), different kinds of monsters, etc.. That's if they were even too keen to present something like this to the world, but no.

    Zitat Zitat von catalinux Beitrag anzeigen
    ...
    Upgrade your distro, bro.
    Misanthrope ist offline

  6. #6 Zitieren
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    Only the last sea battle was challenging for me on hard. But with the right strategy it was easy as well.
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  7. #7 Zitieren
    Knight Avatar von catalinux
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    Zitat Zitat von Misanthrope Beitrag anzeigen
    Upgrade your distro, bro.
    I did a dist-upgrade a week ago, sir! But yes, sorry for the double post, I suppose something went wrong the last time.
    catalinux ist offline

  8. #8 Zitieren
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    Zitat Zitat von Misanthrope Beitrag anzeigen
    Sea battles. 45 to 1 hour of repetition until you get lucky. Neither fun nor enjoyable. Another major concept broken. Namely, "if the enemy is too strong come back later", in this case. The phrase "PB game" has almost lost it's meaning since they've abandoned nearly every concept that was in there from the beginning. Too much of boring reflex based mechanics, from mini games to boss battles have replaced careful character development, smart investments and puzzle-like parts (from Gothic). Ship battles are disgrace to the genre. Ok, I might be too harsh, but really. How can you expect from someone who grew up with the previous titles to be amazed with this lame mechanics. If someone gave me a 1000 euros to try to defend this, I wouldn't know how. Of course it could've been so much better and fun if one could, for example, upgrade your ship, buy new canons or even use magic (like some kind of liquid that burns on the water surface to prevent the monster coming from the rear), different kinds of monsters, etc.. That's if they were even too keen to present something like this to the world, but no.
    Ok, like I thought. It wasn't just cos I was crap, but because the mini-game was crap. Think that is me finished with this game in that case and will be the first PB game that I haven't completed, cos no way am I wasting my spare time with that nonsense.

    I really honestly think that PB need to abandon all their new ideas, most of which are copied from other RPGs and go back to what they do best. Because when they do what they do best, they are brilliant.

    Must be commercial pressure coming from market analysts and like telling PB, "why can't you be more like Dragon Age, or Assassin's Creed?" These games sell. "What we need are 'moral choices', a team of characters each with their own story and personality, oh yeah, and epic sea battles with giant sea monsters."

    What PB do better than anyone else, are their hand crafted worlds that are so absorbing and enjoyable to explore. There was plenty of that on display in Risen 3 and I really enjoyed Calador and Taranis in particular, where the NPCs resembled much more the mysoginistic 'real men' of previous PB games. I stopped feeling so immersed in exploration and discovering treasure etc however, by the time I was carrying a musket that would waste most enemies within two no skill required point and click shots. So I am guessing that clever balancing of the enemies and progression through the game was also one of PB's strong points in their previous games.

    PB need to drop all these crappy new ideas that they are copying from other RPGs, then sit down and look at Gothic 2, or Gothic 3 with CP patch 1.75 and Alternative AI, or even Risen 1. And do a close analysis of what was so good about each of these games, and focus on recreating those qualities. If any female members of their team exclaim in a brainstorming meeting "wouldn't it be cool if the Nameless Hero could fall in love and get married!", then they need to be told to "STFU and get back in the kitchen." A PB game should be a man's game. They shouldn't be made to cater for little girls, or gays, or teenage metrosexuals with poncy quiffs. There are enough gay RPGs out there full of sterilised medieval or futuristic characters that just happen to be oh so politically correct, peddling their uber lame nice and safe binary morality.

    With that said, I suspect PB are going to take their games even further in the wrong direction. Further towards trying to mimic the mainstream and further away from what they do better than anyone else......but whatever....just please don't force me to fight some 1 hour long borefest grinding battle with some beastie.
    MatDerKater ist offline Geändert von MatDerKater (07.04.2015 um 19:51 Uhr)

  9. #9 Zitieren
    Adventurer Avatar von Misanthrope
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    Zitat Zitat von MatDerKater Beitrag anzeigen
    Ok, like I thought. It wasn't just cos I was crap, but because the mini-game was crap. Think that is me finished with this game in that case and will be the first PB game that I haven't completed, cos no way am I wasting my spare time with that nonsense.
    Well, this is not something where you should get stuck in RPG game (or any mechanics that is not affected by progression, that is), but it's worthwhile passing this point. It's frustrating a few couple of times, but it becomes quite predictable. Try to do as much damage as possible at the first encounter, and then go for the open sea (avoid being close to rocks). Don't chase the monster (too much), let it come to you. Also, try to sail in line with monster and hit it from the side (with Q and E, if I remember correctly). I totally overlooked this the first time. Fire ahead of it as it moves and aim for the head. Hope this helps a bit.

    EDIT: I was playing on hard. Try easy. You should be doing more damage per hit, but I'm not sure.
    Misanthrope ist offline Geändert von Misanthrope (08.04.2015 um 20:50 Uhr)

  10. #10 Zitieren
    Warrior Avatar von Morgannin09
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    The whole mechanics of sea fighting were really buggered, but I don't dislike the idea of it happening. Remember that everyone complained early on that ship travel and fighting wouldn't even be a part of Risen 2. But it wasn't advertised for Risen 3 at all, we only learned about it after a brief glimpse in some random gameplay footage a month or two before release. I don't think it should have been shoved into a game that they didn't have a huge development cycle for, they should have spent that time fine tuning a lot of the more core features of the game. Then, when they had more time, they could have taken more time, done the sea battles and done them well, for a later game. But again, it really isn't something that the game needed, and even if it was done really well, it seems like a huge change of pace no matter what, and departs too much from the core gameplay style that I'm not sure anyone would have enjoyed it much anyway.

    If any female members of their team exclaim in a brainstorming meeting "wouldn't it be cool if the Nameless Hero could fall in love and get married!", then they need to be told to "STFU and get back in the kitchen." A PB game should be a man's game. They shouldn't be made to cater for little girls, or gays, or teenage metrosexuals with poncy quiffs. There are enough gay RPGs out there full of sterilised medieval or futuristic characters that just happen to be oh so politically correct, peddling their uber lame nice and safe binary morality.
    You could have very easily made this point (which I don't disagree with, at least in regards to keeping boring romance quests out of the game) without offending anybody, don't know why you had to go that far. But, it's true. I don't look for wholesome gushy romance in every game I play, and what appealed about the Gothics and first Risen is that your character is an everyman, a hard, smart-talking bastard who works himself up from the dirt to make himself a legend and haul everyone's asses from the edge of oblivion. He doesn't get bogged down in romance along the way, which Hollywood seems to have convinced so many game developers these days that we really want. But you also need to stop and consider that no kind of romance quests even exist in the later Risen games. Risen 3 had no romantic interest at all, and any kind of relationship between Patty and the Hero in Risen 2 was implied more than anything, since you were never put in a situation (ala BioWare) where you were forced to seek her approval for any reason. So if I were you, I wouldn't even worry about it. If their next title has us jump through BioWare's trademark hoops to try and seduce a love interest and bone them and eventually gain some kind of reward or perk, THEN you are justified in complaining, because it just hasn't happened yet.
    YouTube channel for Let's Plays and shenanigans: https://www.youtube.com/c/Morgannin
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  11. #11 Zitieren
    Knight Avatar von catalinux
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    Concerning the romance thing - totally by accident It happened today that I saw a yt video of Sera's Romance Quest from Dragon Age Inquisition. Funny and sexy, and somehow clever done. And I was surprised, I wasn't expecting to see a lesbian romance in a video game, also depicted with graphic content.

    Now, if PB will ever consider adding some romance interest in their next game, it would be better something like this. I liked many of the lines Patty gave in Risen 2 and Risen 3, I liked that she sounded like an independent, open-minded, strong woman, but please, a classical romance between a sexy girl and a strong man would be just boring.
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  12. #12 Zitieren
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    But you also need to stop and consider that no kind of romance quests even exist in the later Risen games. Risen 3 had no romantic interest at all, and any kind of relationship between Patty and the Hero in Risen 2 was implied more than anything, since you were never put in a situation (ala BioWare) where you were forced to seek her approval for any reason. So if I were you, I wouldn't even worry about it. If their next title has us jump through BioWare's trademark hoops to try and seduce a love interest and bone them and eventually gain some kind of reward or perk, THEN you are justified in complaining, because it just hasn't happened yet.
    The series is going that way. They wanted to put a romantic interest into Risen 2, but never had the time. PB members have stated many times that it is something that they are working on and find the whole idea very exciting. I suspect Deep Silver market researchers are looking at the big selling (mostly Bioware) RPGs and trying to cherry pick features out of those games in order to make the games from their own developers more appealing to the broad masses. Of course, the reason all these lame boring generic RPGs sell so well, is marketing, marketing, and with a touch of yet more big budget marketing thrown in for good measure. The internet is bombarded with pre release hype for games like Dragon Age, Skyrim, etc. At the time when the reviews hit, the reviewers compose their reviews riding upon not only the wave of pre release hype, but also with the editorial pressure to focus on seeing the positives in certain big budget titles. After all, advertising and other revenue from publishers like EA, will account for a hefty proportion of any gaming media house's revenue and it would be suicide to give some of their AAA titles the professional slating they often deserve. Post release, on the back of the pre release hype and the clutches of rave reviews, gamers themselves can fall under a spell of self-hypnosis and collectively perpetuate the message that 'Bioware RPG X is such an amazing game', etc...

    There are so many people who have put like 30+ hours into certain games such as Mass Effect or Skyrim, telling themselves and anyone else who will listen how amazing these games are only to wake up one day and admit they have been bored out of their heads all along. I know this is a real phenomenon in the gaming community because I have been there and done it myself......but these days are gone. If I aint getting no excitement, fun, or soothing alpha brainwaves, then the game gets binned promptly. I hope someone at PB has both the sense and the power to tell their publisher that mimicking Biosnore RPG features just isn't a good way to go (although I know from what I read already that PB are focused on taking their games in the wrong direction, not to mentioning trying to do things that they are just not that good at and/or don't have the resources for).

    @Foobar (The PC cop with the yellow n red cards)
    In Risen 3, the few female characters fitted somewhere into the following categories:


    • Nagging moaning brow beating housewife.
    • Promiscuous 'loose women' obssessed with material possession.
    • Manipulative females, obssessed with material possession touting sexual promises in order to entice others into advance their own neferious aims and objectives.


    Female NPCs cast in a less negative light, were basically damsels in distress, and of course Patty. The sister with the unfeasibly large breasts and the make-up plastered all over her face in a way that only the cheapest of tuppeny whores would be seen.

    Risen 3 offered female stereotypes which were insulting to 'wimmin' across the entire world. Should PB be banned from this forum?
    MatDerKater ist offline

  13. #13 Zitieren

    Metasyntaktische Variable
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    Zitat Zitat von MatDerKater Beitrag anzeigen
    Should PB be banned from this forum?
    First of all: What other people do elsewhere, is none of my concern. That includes what PB do in their games. I’m not responsible for that. And that also goes for you. You can write as much of your homophobic, anti-Sematic, sexist and insulting BS as you like. Just not here. Do it in your own blog! Or go to the forum of “Racist Weekly”. Whatever. But when you come here, you are expected to behave. If you can’t do that, please close the door from the outside.

    Secondly, what fictional PB characters do in fictional worlds isn’t necessarily what PB does in the real world. What would you say to a murderer who complained to the court: “Characters in PB games also kill each other! By the dozens! Do we put them on trial, too?
    I can’t believe I have to explain this to you. Fiction ≠ Reality.

    Thirdly, yes, if PB ever acted this rude in this forum and ignored the terms of use, and did not learn their lesson after being perm-banned already and being allowed back, they would get in trouble with me, too. Funny thing is: They don’t behave like that. Maybe because they have manners. Who knows?

    Fourthly, do you really think that open and undiscerning defiance of moderator decisions is going to help your case? I’m just wondering here. What is that supposed to accomplish? Anyway, this is not open for discussion. I explained all of this in the past already. So you know why things are the way they are. You’re hanging by a thread already. Don’t go swinging around and trying to kick people.

    Further unfounded complaints about moderator decisions will be deleted.
    foobar ist offline Geändert von foobar (10.04.2015 um 15:44 Uhr) Grund: typo

  14. #14 Zitieren
    Adventurer Avatar von Misanthrope
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    That font color indicates that... you had better played Gothic 3 recently.
    Misanthrope ist offline

  15. #15 Zitieren

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    Zitat Zitat von Misanthrope Beitrag anzeigen
    That font color indicates that...
    ...I’m writing in my function as moderator (because moderators have orange stars and user titles). That creates a clear distinction between my private opinion and my official actions.

    You see me writing in normal color → I’m writing in my role as normal user. Feel free to object, debate or ignore.

    You see me writing in orange → I’m writing in my role as moderator. Ignore me at your own risk. If you feel treated unjustly, make your case and I might reconsider. But in the end, it’s my call to make. Because it’s also my head on the admin’s block if something endangers the forum.
    foobar ist offline Geändert von foobar (09.04.2015 um 20:29 Uhr)

  16. #16 Zitieren
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    Sacked Risen 3 and went and played Shadow of Mordor.

    Fun game, great action combat mechanics, decent story, but a bit easy even on Ultra difficulty and therefore over and done with very quick.

    So thought I would give this bloody Sea Beastie another shot, but this time I bumped the difficulty down from Ultra, to Easy....

    .....and......20 minutes of chasing-waiting on the Beastie to make one of it's random appearances later, with only a few crumbs of it's health drained away, and I Alt-F4'd the game. Life is just too short for this shizz!


    Who created this utter garbage mini/game?

    Who decided that it should appear in the final release?

    Don't PB play test their own game or don't they pay play testers to do it for them?

    Didn't anyone pipe up and say "Hey guys, this boat battle mini-game is total crap. If it can't be drastically improved upon then just scrap it!"?


    Now I am going to ask a question that I am 99% I know the answer to.

    Is there any 'cheat' for either killing the Sea Beastie or just cutting it out the game altogether?
    MatDerKater ist offline

  17. #17 Zitieren
    Warrior Avatar von The Ore Baron
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    As we say in the business:
    Spoiler:(zum lesen bitte Text markieren)
    git gud

    Seriously, though, even though the beast battles didn't give me much problems, I agree they were imbalanced, very out of place and not fun at all. I would not mind not seeing them make a return to the next game. If all else fails, at least make them a little easier. I thought they were more chance-based than skill-based.
    Relatively good monster designs, though.

    Zitat Zitat von MatDerKater Beitrag anzeigen
    Is there any 'cheat' for either killing the Sea Beastie or just cutting it out the game altogether?
    You could upload a saved game file somewhere, and maybe someone nice from our good community here will win the battle for you, then re-upload the new saved game file. I might be up for the task, but my next gaming session is on May 1st, so you'd have to wait a little.
    And I'm SO not doing this for every monster battle that follows
    The Ore Baron ist offline Geändert von The Ore Baron (15.04.2015 um 19:24 Uhr)

  18. #18 Zitieren
    Knight Avatar von catalinux
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    Zitat Zitat von The Ore Baron Beitrag anzeigen
    You could upload a saved game file somewhere, and maybe someone nice from our good community here will win the battle for you, then re-upload the new saved game file.
    And I'm SO not doing this for every monster battle that follows
    I'm in! I hated the last sea battle, but hell, this is a challenge!
    catalinux ist offline

  19. #19 Zitieren
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    I may well just take you guys up on this very kind offer....

    ....am offshore at the moment though and amn't sure I will be able to upload any file to any file hosting service.

    But these offers are getting bookmarked for sure!
    MatDerKater ist offline

  20. #20 Zitieren
    Warrior Avatar von Morgannin09
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    Zitat Zitat von The Ore Baron Beitrag anzeigen
    As we say in the business:
    Spoiler:(zum lesen bitte Text markieren)
    git gud

    Seriously, though, even though the beast battles didn't give me much problems, I agree they were imbalanced, very out of place and not fun at all. I would not mind not seeing them make a return to the next game. If all else fails, at least make them a little easier. I thought they were more chance-based than skill-based.
    Relatively good monster designs, though.
    The bottom line is it really isn't something anybody expected or asked for. Piranha Bytes effectively wasted production time and budget for a feature that people wished was just gone. But, now that it's happened, I would love to see it done RIGHT. The ship at least handled somewhat believably, disregarding the fact that your sails took you full speed in any direction regardless of how the wind would be blowing. It was the shooting and the sea monster behavior that ruined it. The fact that you had to use the turn keys to aim the broadside cannons, and had no reference of or control over the arc of the fusillade, meant you had to get damn close to the beast to hit it, and hope to god you got your perfect shot lined up before it ducked under the waves and hit you. And the hovering projectiles it spit out were fucking ridiculous.

    Still, it could easily be done better, but above all, it should be optional. Something you do for extra rewards, or perhaps as a dynamic hazard. As you travel between locations (which should all be done in real time, by the way, not through clicking on the map and popping up a loading screen, I want to actually sail my damn boat, alright?), you may encounter the monster foraging around a coastline or island. You can fight it, a bold but lucrative endeavor, to get trophies, experience, and a reward from the local community leader for helping protect their land and fleet; you can try and evade it, get to shore safely if you aren't confident you can fight it; or you can swallow your pride and travel elsewhere until the beast moves on.
    YouTube channel for Let's Plays and shenanigans: https://www.youtube.com/c/Morgannin
    Morgannin09 ist offline

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