[Assassin of Kings]

Ah, so the 'some info' about you is worthless. But that 'some info' about someone isn't always worthless.

Yeah, sure. After you fill up that info, Steam is going to steal your identity and rob your back accounts.

how about opposing data acquisitiveness, restricting useability of acquired property, reasonless overcomplication, artifical shortage... in short words, you could also call it freedom.

Yeah, some freedom fighter you are ... fighting against evil Steam who uses you as a slave and wants to take over your identity. Come on, be serious for once. No one cares about the data you give about yourself and no one is gonna use it for anything. And also, just because you have to install another application to run the game, doesn't mean that you're no longer the owner of the game. Do whatever you want and don't buy Risen 2 if that's what you really want ... it's your choice, your loss. But at least think rationally before you take that choice.

[AshleyG]

Well, I don't care, I'll be playing on xbox hehe.
They never said "you'll have to spend hours"!
What understood was "to play the game without cd, you have to activate it online", is it that anoying? People here have internet access, what are you complaining about? I can't be right coz ifnot you sure like to complain and/or have pirated games on the comp.

hey pb, that's a pirate game, not a piratable game
sorry for the bad joke....

[Alwin]

Guys... I know little of this Steam thing (I have 1 Steam game and had no problem with that), but here's a question: is Steam really required to play the game? The way I understood it, you can still play it through the DVD if you don't want to use it.

[Nisarg]

@Alwin:

Risen 2 will be playable without a DVD in the drive if the product has been added to a Steam account

...

Naturally we also wanted to keep the restrictions, which are part of any copy protection, as unobtrusive as possible. You will only be required to be online once – to link your game to your Steam account and afterwards you will be able to play offline and without DVD in the drive.

The first part may look like the Steam part is optional but the second part clearly states that you'll have to link the game to the Steam account, because that is the restriction. Sure, you won't have to be online while playing the game but a Steam account is still a Steam account. Why exactly that is problematic has been explained rather clearly by others already.

[Alwin]

@Alwin:


The first part may look like the Steam part is optional but the second part clearly states that you'll have to link the game to the Steam account, because that is the restriction. Sure, you won't have to be online while playing the game but a Steam account is still a Steam account. Why exactly that is problematic has been explained rather clearly by others already.

Thanks, I think I understand now. And I also understand that anti-piracy is really not going the way I want it to go... so yeah. No Risen 2 for me then.

[Kuchenschlachter]

No one cares about the data you give about yourself and no one is gonna use it for anything. And also, just because you have to install another application to run the game, doesn't mean that you're no longer the owner of the game.

well, you don't even claim steam wouldn't mean "data acquisitiveness, restricting useability of acquired property, reasonless overcomplication, artifical shortage" so it's just a question of opinion how bad this is. i think it's really fucked up but thats just my opinon.

[Zocky]

Alwin, before you decide to not get R2....since you don't know the first thing about steam...can i suggest that you actually do some research about it? Cause jumping the 'omfg steam is so evil' without knowing wtf it even is....is a bit lame.

I kinda don't get this thing. First, of all the people who says that they have ability to prevent you from playing game....lets be honest here. How many times did this happen, and how many different games were bought in past on steam? Probability that something like this wil happen, is most probably lower then chance, that when you buy DVD version, your dvd will be broke and therefor useless. Maybe even you will break in on the way. I mean, it did happen to me once, some time ago. Yet i bought loads of steam games and never had problems with steam preventing me from playing. And all people that i know that used steam, can say that same.

Also, we got best of the drm systems we could get. I'm sure all of you agree that it's still better then being limited with how many times you can install it, or that you have to be online nonstop and if not, you can't even save the game, and so on.

AND, as i said, steam actually have man good sides too. So from all this, you can assume publisher atleast put some effort to do what is best for them, but try to listen to comunity aswell. And you go all berserk on them saying OMFG YOU SO EVIL...cmon.....
Don't really care at all, if it's not 100% as you want, you will not buy game.

Fine, it's your choice, but do understand you are destroying PC market with this action. You don't care how much effort devs and publisher put into game; if it's not completly as you wish for some odd reason, you will boycot it. This means publisher gets even less money from pc version and, what do you think will happen? Either next version will not come for pc at all, or devs will go the way of dodo, because they didn't earn enough to stay alive, despite good game.

And before you jump here how they can have regular dvd check or such...risen had it, and i don't think it was really selling THAT great. And it was pirated aswell, very fast too iirc.

If this was really some draconian drm i would be the first to complain, but seriously, if game is good, and steam is best of DRMs, even with some flows.....overall, i don't thik as pc gamer, you should not support it just for the sake of drm...but hey.....you can always buy xbox version or something...wich will all will have to do next time, if this mentality spreads arround...

[Kuchenschlachter]

ufff... thats way more enraging and insulting than this polemic drivel of assasin of kings.

your turning something around. drm opponents aren't destroying pc market, we intend to destroy drm and if publisher stick to it i wouldn't mined if they also go to hell. supporting developers is a different question. if all games were available for free, i'd still pay for the ones i like.

[foobar]

your turning something around. drm opponents aren't destroying pc market, we intend to destroy drm and if publisher stick to it i wouldn't mined if they also go to hell.

I think Zocky has just fallen for the publishers excuses for DRM. Markets are driven by demands. If the demand for DRM games stops, then that destroys the market for DRM games - not for PC games as a whole. Instead, those in the market for PC games that do not use DRM will flourish. Which I think would a good thing.

[Zocky]

Foobar, i'm not in holly war against evil publishers as some of you tands to be.
I see good sides, i see bad sides, and i take my decision. I see many good sides, i see barely and bad side about steam, and i decided i will use it.

It does not limit me how many times i can install it. It does not tell me when i can play it.
There are some bad sides, true. So far, i don't really see it happing, BUT!, even if it does happen, that i buy game on steam, yet for some reason they will deny me from playing it....when that day comes, i will get other means to play the game, wether they like it or not (and i did pay for game), but, i will remember not to buy any single game from that publisher or steam at all.

So, i really don't have anything to loose with this. Only publisher can. And if they are stupid enough to do so, let them..i will still play the game i payed for, but it will be the last game i bought from them.

So again, i have nothing to loose, and before it actually happens (Again, i don't really know ONE person who had problems like this meaing, that would get banned from game they bought), there is simply to reason to worry about this. At all.

Now lets see, what other bad sides steam has....forcing patching...hm, with good conections as these days, it's not really issue.

Then...you have to install another app. Well, yes, true. Well, i will buy other games aswell, i can see new games being released...all in all, you actually do have reason why you would have this even without drm thingy. You have to have direct x installed as well, and some other things, yet you people don't complain. You take it for granted.

And again, i will have to repeat this. Unlike other drms, steam actually has benefits. I mean, even if the game is not new, how many times did it happen to me, that 2,3 years old game, the dvd or cd got corrupted and i couldn't play it anymore. It happened to me more then once. With steam, that is not a problem. You simply download it again and problem solved. This is big benefit.

I will not repeat other benefits of steam. But as i see it, steam isn't very problematic at all, and even has some benefits. Quite big one actually.

Also, as you can also see from that TweakGuides.com article, you can see that there actually are strong indications that drm actually does help against piracy. Regular dvd check did not. So with that in mind, if i was publisher, i would use steam aswell, with all the benefits (And being far less draconian then drms), so with that in mind, i really can't blaim them. Blaim pirates. Anyway, if you despite all this, which clearly shows that piracy is problem and that drm is helping atleast a bit about it, yet steam isn't that bad...i would say publisher did the best they can, yet you still ignore all this...sorry, but i would say you guys fail to "OMFG STEAM IS EVAL" propaganda, not me to publisher.....And if you tand to do so, i'm just reminding you what your logic would achive. They obviously have to use SOME sort of drm, to prevent piracy to some degree...and you can't accept that, even when game is good, fine, but i'll remind you again, to think where this is leading. Just don't go around screaming next time, why is console market so bigger and why nobody wants to make games for PC gamers, since they are alike trekies; do whatever they want, there will always will be many even on this small market, to complain.


But , as i said, you seems to fail to "omfg drm and steam are evil" propaganda, and don't really have good reason for that (imo of course).

[Kuchenschlachter]

directx paramount funtionality is rather usefull/mandatory for the development of 3d "stuff". drm provides only benefits to the provider and disadvantages for customer with their main objective "the functionality of refusing to function."

well, like i wrote priviously the actual ability to play if the drm provider isn't available isn't crucial, the rights shift is.

by the way all benefits for customers of steam could be provided without any drm.

[Zocky]

ufff... thats way more enraging and insulting than this polemic drivel of assasin of kings.

your turning something around. drm opponents aren't destroying pc market, we intend to destroy drm and if publisher stick to it i wouldn't mined if they also go to hell. supporting developers is a different question. if all games were available for free, i'd still pay for the ones i like.

And when pb closes doors because of poor sales, and publisher decided to rather focus on games where it's easier to get money....i'm sure we all will profit, right?

--edited--
You skipped the part where i mention that particle, wich indicates drm actually does help with piracy... but ok.

Steam has accounts. Game is bound to your account. If i lost somehow my "game", steam will check if i own the game, if i do, it will let me download it again. I can't really imagen this without some sort of drm, and again, even so, there are strong indications, drm works better then regular dvd check. Publisher do what they must to protect them, and they give you some benefits in return. I'm fine with that. I do wonder how many of you actually used steam to have good insight in it at all...

[Lester1996]

Steam has one of the worst DRM there is but it doesn´t stop me from buying the game
i mean i don`t like that i have to be online all the besides i`m using my phone as a modem so it isn`t very good thing for me

Besides if you dont`t want to buy the game then don`t buy it i don`t think that the people here will care about it and it`s your own decision we can`t change that

[Kuchenschlachter]

i can only speak for myself, i'd rather see a world without drm and pb than one full of both and yes i think this would also be a gain for general public.

the point in drm is that they are trying to enforce a system that works perfectly for trading phisical goods but is nearly as much perfectly inoperative for information. information can be duplicated with nearly no effort, so what for am i paying? the copy of the game i buy? of course not. teh deveolpment must be payed in some way, i have no good idea how to do it but the current aproach is just wrong.

i'd really like to see if a big titel could amortize on donations. maybe this wouldn't work but woud be an interesting experiment.

edit: one thing i forgot to emntion, of course, i also understand the publishers. but that has nothing to do with my opinion on drm for myself and general public. and about the pirates... maybe drm would diminish but not vanish, you know the arguments of selling used games and as long as there is drm i understand every single little pirate trying to bypass the disadvantages. its a vicious circle.

[Alwin]

Alwin, before you decide to not get R2....since you don't know the first thing about steam...can i suggest that you actually do some research about it? Cause jumping the 'omfg steam is so evil' without knowing wtf it even is....is a bit lame.

I have tried Steam for one game, and I didn't like Steam itself much. It's just that I recall being able to play that game without any fuss. And it's a matter of principles too - if I buy a DVD, let me goddamn use it without having to register it. Copyprotection is getting more and more obtrusive and guess what? The only one who isn't hurt by this process is the pirate community.

[Assassin of Kings]

OK, I understand your whole propaganda about Steam and the publishers who use it being evil and restricting the buyers' freedom, thus being abusive, but what you do not realize is that if you really decide not to buy the game just because of this silly little thing, the ones who will be the most damaged are not Steam, and not even Deep Silver, but PB. If R2 will really lose so many customers just because of the DRM, PB won't have enough funds to deliver anymore awesome games, and perhaps they will even cease to exist if the amount of lost customers is huge enough. Do you really want this to happen? PB put a lot of effort in the creation of R2 and maybe it will be a special and memorable game, just like Gothic 1 was. Assuming that you are right, and the publishers and Steam are really the evil ones, do you really believe that PB deserves to be punished and pay for the consequences of "evil" Steam and DS' acts?

I have tried Steam for one game, and I didn't like Steam itself much. It's just that I recall being able to play that game without any fuss. And it's a matter of principles too - if I buy a DVD, let me goddamn use it without having to register it. Copyprotection is getting more and more obtrusive and guess what? The only one who isn't hurt by this process is the pirate community.

Yeah sure, a few hours ago you didn't even have a clue what the whole problem with Steam was, and all of a sudden you're speaking about matters of principles too. It's clearly that this whole "I will not buy R2 because of the DRM" propaganda works by indoctrination, and by the herd instinct. Some of you are acting like "hey, everyone says that Steam is evil and they won't buy R2 if it's on Steam. If everyone thinks like this, it means they're right, so I think like this as well, because it sounds cool. STEAM SUCKS I WON'T BUY RISEN 2!!!1111". That's the impression I get when reading all of this.

[Zocky]

i'd rather spend 2 mins registering steam (you do that for only once aynway, you do know that? You do not register on steam for every game). It takes more time to unpack game then register it Well almost). But does take less time to register once then unpack, say, 5, or 10 games (on dvds).

And again. I spend freakin two mins ONCE and never EVER again, and can download game ANYTIME i want, unlike with dvd version, where if for some reason disk is damaged...i'm toasted. So it's not more obstrusive, it's less then regular dvd version. atleast when it comes steam to mind.

But i guess it's popular to use popular words like "omfg steam is so obstrusive" these days...i would still suggest you do atleast read article on TweakGuies.com, as it does give some very itresting facts.

And just to clarifiy one thing; i did have same opinion as you guys, but after actually using steam for like year or two... i can come to some conclusion about it...

--edited--
And AoK is right, you barely know steam at all, and you certainly didn't understand problems with steam just few mins ago, and as he said, you speak of some principe. If this is how all "steam haters" bases their hate against steam...i guess it can't be helped then...

[Kuchenschlachter]

guess my job here is done, i got rid of my arguments and read some responses: steam isn't that bad - well, opinions differ/boycotting means hurting pb - i'm willed to risk that/just manipulated by propaganda and can't think ourselfs - haha, as if you were not...
i'm happy to see there are some guys out there who disaprove drm enough to do something against(boycott). if there is a way to dispel drm this is it.
i'm out.

[Alwin]

Yeah sure, a few hours ago you didn't even have a clue what the whole problem with Steam was, and all of a sudden you're speaking about matters of principles too. It's clearly that this whole "I will not buy R2 because of the DRM" propaganda works by indoctrination, and by the herd instinct. Some of you are acting like "hey, everyone says that Steam is evil and they won't buy R2 if it's on Steam. If everyone thinks like this, it means they're right, so I think like this as well, because it sounds cool. STEAM SUCKS I WON'T BUY RISEN 2!!!1111". That's the impression I get when reading all of this.

Well, reading comprehension certainly is not your strong point. You guys feel free to go along with copyprotection. I wonder what DRM will be like in 10 years... I'm certainly not feeling optimistic.

[Zocky]

but we are not speaking about any other drm in 10 years; we are speaking about this very specific drm: steam.

And, i heard really very few actually valid complains, big enought to not buy game via steam, let alone seeing someone actually giving some facts about steam. On the other side, "steam supporters did gave you guys article(s) that explain in details and shows some definite facts about steam and drms in general.

And sorry, even if i forget that there are not facts from "steam-haters", i see things like "omfg they can track where and how i play game"....and i hear this from same people, who write this post on website, that tracks every single post you make, how many posts you made, where and how did you write EVERY POST, even tracks other stuff, have even some of your personal info (like email)......i mean this is just too funny.....but whatever, you have right to your own opinions...

Also, alwin, i will tell you better future...in 10 years, there will be no problems with drm. Because there will be no pc game market, if all people think like this....