View Full Version : History of Khorinis
I collected all dates of the Khorinis graveyards and made this graphic:
- dates (http://www.gothicstories.de/kastedergelehrten/buecher/timelinedeath.jpg)
- Sth special must happen at year 212. Many died and after this time the members of the family Ukara didn't had a military title anymore.
The location of the graves of the ones who died in the year 212 too is interesting too. Its the hidden place near the tavern. No official graveyard. It looks that the relatives weren't allowed to burry their dead family members at a normal churchyard.
What happens?
- I think u remember document of Gothic 1. The owner got the whole valley + Innos Church etc. The one who was defeated and was forced to write this dokument was the "earl of westfeld" (in the German version). So we know three thing.
1. This one family of westfeld owned the whole island.
2. An other power (maybe from the mainland) occupied the island?
3. There must be a point in history where the shires of Khorinis became united.
- We know that there r more shires cause in the year 212 2 earls died "earl of Siegburg" and "earl of Waldfried". So there could be a war between the 3 shires. The 2 who were burried lost and the earl of westfeld won. The family of Ukara was a member of teh oen who lost so their lost their military titles too.
- But this victorious earl lost in an other war and had to sell his shire. But against which power he lost? I think its Myrtana! Cause in the intro of G1 is said that the basis of realm of Rhobar I was that he was the owner of the magic ore. What do u think about this?
I think the canon in the mountain could near the tower of Xardas could be a relict of this war Myrtana against Khorinis.
And we found the document in the mountain forest. So I tink that the main castle of teh valley was built by Rhobar I to start the work in the mines to gather the ore which he needed for his wars.
Sth special. Iotar (721 - 762) has 2 graves. One in the valley where u can find Lester and one near Onars yard if I remeber correct. So I think that in the year 762 Myrtana attacked Khorinis and the Defenders flew in the mountains near the place where Xardas tower will be. They defended the pass with canons and during the combats Iotar died and was burried in the valley of Lester. Maybe a 2nd army of the invaders attacked the valley of mines and sieged the mountain forest. Cause this pressure the owner of the shire sold the island and the soldiers at the pass surrenderd. They lost but they were allowed to burry Iotor next to the church in holy earth so that could be the reason why he has two graves.
What do u think about this?^^
rockfest
04.11.2005, 23:41
That's alot of info. Thanks for it but i"m curios about something, what do you do on your free time? :p .
What I do in my free time? Think about it it isn't hard to figure out^^.
Sowilo, I know that you did the same in German and so I wonder whether you have n Englsh version. Why do you know how the title "Graf" was translated into English (or have you just asked somebody?)? And why weren't the family names translated into English?
And maybe there are two Iotars (twins with the same name maybe). This could be another explanation for this strange fact.
rockfest
05.11.2005, 02:23
What I do in my free time? Think about it it isn't hard to figure out^^.
:D I'm not the right person to ask this. I'm a bad example. :D
one-cool
05.11.2005, 02:46
Why do you know how the title "Graf" was translated into English (or have you just asked somebody?)? And why weren't the family names translated into English?
There is a database where you can see the english names.
Mondgesaenge afaik
Godcrusher
05.11.2005, 10:33
Wow! So much of info. I wonder what really happned in the year 212. Maybe u re right but maybe at that time Orcs started to invade on Khorinis.
Wow! So much of info. I wonder what really happned in the year 212. Maybe u re right but maybe at that time Orcs started to invade on Khorinis.
@egndgf
- Cause the title Graf. I loooked it up in a dictionary and there was written earl. And Grafschaft is shire. But I don't know if this words r used in the English version.
- Hmm.. I would answer that I don't believe that twins with the same name (which parents should give twins same names?) died in the same year. But I can't remember which dates were at the tombstones^^.
@crusher
Possible. I think there was a change of power. Cause the family of Ukara has nor military titels after this year and 2 of 3 earls died. It could be that this change of power happend during an war with orcs but u can expain it without an orcwar too.
nefertum
05.11.2005, 12:03
It's pity that we don't know what year is in present (in g1 and g2).
btw - in g1, in water mages library was some books about Battle for Varrant. One defeated leader of varrant army named 'Lukor' Maybe he was transported into the colony,and there...Baal Lukor?
I though Geelon and Lukkor died but I will look it up.
If Iotar died 762 during an invasion of the mainland (maybe myrtana) it is possible that this was the time of Rhobar I. So we would have at the moment the 8th century.
edit: Gellon was killed but there is not written that Lukkor was killed after he had been defeated.
DeadlyArrow
05.11.2005, 16:08
About Serano Ukara
1st he was 64 years old when he died, not 65 :D
2nd "man who protects tower" - he protects tower but he's from Ukaras who lost war between shires, so it wasn't official tower, probably last tower of Ukaras -or not... which tower could it be?
great job sowilo! i really like this forum!!! :cool: :)
It's pity that we don't know what year is in present (in g1 and g2).
well i think it's enough to know the year in g1 cause 13 days later after defeating the sleeper g2 starts :D... remember the begining? ;)... or am i wrong? :confused:
btw - in g1, in water mages library was some books about Battle for Varrant. One defeated leader of varrant army named 'Lukor' Maybe he was transported into the colony,and there...Baal Lukor?
man.. i really have to read the books in gothic... :D
nefertum
05.11.2005, 16:24
well i think it's enough to know the year in g1 cause 13 days later after defeating the sleeper g2 starts :D... remember the begining? ;)... or am i wrong? :confused:
it doesn't matter, that is the same year...
About Serano Ukara
1st he was 64 years old when he died, not 65 :D
2nd "man who protects tower" - he protects tower but he's from Ukaras who lost war between shires, so it wasn't official tower, probably last tower of Ukaras -or not... which tower could it be?
I hate maths.....
Don't know - that is one of the points which I don't thought about^^.
DeadlyArrow
05.11.2005, 22:29
another interesting thing - it's a period of time when it's no ppl buried 550-700
150 years - some ppl sure died in that period but it's no graves
- I had a few theories. One is that only rich persons were burried and normal were burnt.
- An other is that they were burried: there is one graveyard north of Khorinis in the wood and a few near Onars farm - but we can't read the dates.
thanx for the interesting reading!
Np, but remember that these rn't facts. It is only a nice story which connects a few facts which r from the game.
DeadlyArrow
06.11.2005, 16:04
Another interesting point - all dates stars from ~100 year
so maybe ppl first arrived at the island about 100 year
@Jaden
it were no zombies at that cave
Finally I got time to read it. Nice. :)
The location of the graves of the ones who died in the year 212 too is interesting too. Its the hidden place near the tavern. No official graveyard. It looks that the relatives weren't allowed to burry their dead family members at a normal churchyard.
So they were in UNholy ground and that's the reason, why there are zombies there, right? (not unholy ground, but not-holy and they were restless). Same thing for the zombies near Sekob's farm.
So Westfields controlled Khorinis. Who could they be? Natives from Jharkendar? Or someones from mainland, who discovered Khorinis before the King? I'd like to know the reasons of this war etc..
I hope there are more details of Mythana's history in G3.
Edit: Sorry, but I think that the event that took place in 212 was not a war, but plague. Because I doubt that the fought at age 101; 96; 93; 68 etc.
Edit2:
No, I remember it were no zombies at that cave
There's graveyard in that forest. Molerats are there also. Then there's a cave. At first there Goblin Skeletons and graves. When you go further deeper into that cave, there are zombies and a skeleton with a paladins two-hander on a sacrifice platforml
Edit3:
@Jaden
it were no zombies at that cave
There must be 3 zombies.
------->> -------->> Room with 3 zombies and a skeleton (dead skeleton of course..) with a paladins two-hander.
Cave(with GSkel's&graves)
Entrance
DeadlyArrow
06.11.2005, 16:22
@Jaden
if you say so... i remember i went there and i was surprised when i found no zombies here, but maybe i killed them before :D
Another thought. Maybe it was even no plague, but they all took their lives and that could be also the reason why they were not buried in holy grounds. They used to do so in the olden times. Also, the ones who commited suicide - their heads were cut off and then buries in some other grounds than the churches grounds.
So they were in UNholy ground and that's the reason, why there are zombies there, right? (not unholy ground, but not-holy and they were restless). Same thing for the zombies near Sekob's farm.
I never thought about that but it sounds really god and logic.
So Westfields controlled Khorinis. Who could they be? Natives from Jharkendar? Or someones from mainland, who discovered Khorinis before the King? I'd like to know the reasons of this war etc..
I think Jharkendar is lost more than thousend years ago.
The questions is if the humans who r living in Khornis r follows of the Jharkendar or came from the mainland.
I think there is a third possibility. U know the stone circels? They r made to pray to the sun - Innos. But the Jharkendar praid to Adanos, water. So I think that the stone circels has been build by an human race which lived parallel in Khorinis with the Jharkender in Jharkendar and the orcs in the valley of mine. We know that the stone circels exists when Jharkendar exists cause the survivers of Jharkender modified the stone circels and placed there the key for the dimension portal (Other guys think that the survivers built the stone circels for this aim only but I don't believe that).
We know that the Jharkendar lived parallel to the orcs cause the orcs r still living in the valley of mine and we have relicts where structures of the Jharkendar stands on orcish fundaments. Why there was this cooperation between orc and Jharkendar - I don't know.
So we know that in the 3 valley 3 tribes lived. Jharkendar, humans believing in Innos and orc.
So the citizens of Khorinis could be fellows of the Jharkendar, the Innos beleiving humans or invaders from the mainland.
Edit: Sorry, but I think that the event that took place in 212 was not a war, but plague. Because I doubt that the fought at age 101; 96; 93; 68 etc.
Many think that too but I think it was an war cause after 212 the family Ukara dosn't had military titels anymore. After a plaque u don't loose our titles. After a lost war u do.
DeadlyArrow
06.11.2005, 16:52
Maybe it was war with orcs and usual ppl become warriors and got military ranks, afterwards it were no wars and they didn't needed it. you can find some from Ukara family buried in other years, if they lost war it would be possible that all of the family were killed
and it's not only Ukaras buried in 212 - but are their graves at the same place?
I think Jharkendar is lost more than thousend years ago.
But one of the Water Mages in the digging site (i guess Myxir) says that the buildings there are only few centuries old. And I meant the descendants too. Not the Jharkender themselves. :)
Many think that too but I think it was an war cause after 212 the family Ukara dosn't had military titels anymore. After a plaque u don't loose our titles. After a lost war u do.
Yeah, then war is more logical. But I don't think that they fought. It's strange. Maybe Innos gave them strength to fight their enemies. :D There's gotta be explaination.
if they lost war it would be possible that all of the family were killed
All who wasn't childen were killed.
and it's not only Ukaras buried in 212 - but are their graves at the same place?
I think so but I don't know it excatly.
But one of the Water Mages in the digging site (i guess Myxir) says that the buildings there are only few centuries old. And I meant the descendants too. Not the Jharkender themselves. :)
Only a few centuries? Hmm.. The problem is that the graves haven't names which sounds Jharkendar. So they had to live parallel or the buildings r older.
Do u ever thought about why the inhabitans started around teh year 100 to burry they dead? Maybe there came a power of the mainland which exported this ritual?
I like this thread. :)
Do u ever thought about why the inhabitans started around teh year 100 to burry they dead? Maybe there came a power of the mainland which exported this ritual?
Jharkender also placed their dead into tombs. (and we find some graves with gravestones in some Jharkendar caves too.) But only the important ones. (priests, warlords, leaders etc.) What did they do with usual people. Burned them?
Mikael Grizzly
27.01.2007, 23:08
Calin, Lord of Tymorisin DID NOT live in 212.
Furthermore, he DID NOT inhabit the Mountain Fort. He owned most propably the whole Myrtana, as the "Western Lands" (Westfeld) were governed his subordinate, Bergmar, the Burgrab of the Western Lands.
The Valley was sold to an undisclosed third party by Burgmar, not Lord of Tymorisin. Do I have to rephrase it? :(
Second, the year 212 should rather be associated with the old mountain top Citadel, as it's definitely older than the Mountain Residence/Fort (which in itself is actually closer to the 500s).
Mikael Grizzly
28.01.2007, 10:47
Yes. The construction is decidedly more primitive than the one of the mountain residence.
Second, the year 212 should rather be associated with the old mountain top Citadel, as it's definitely older than the Mountain Residence/Fort (which in itself is actually closer to the 500s).
I guess the castle is the youngest stronghold in the valley. Because of the mountain fortress and the old castel I don't know which one is older. But there is one interesting fact. The basement of the mountain fortress has the same ornaments like the sleeper temple. So there is maybe an old (orcish) origin.
Mikael Grizzly
28.01.2007, 14:30
Possible, however, notice the fact that the entry to the Citadel's watchtower is built for a human, not an orc. Also, there is a symbol on the stone in the preserved archway, bearing a symbol that cannot be associated with the Orcs.
My guess is, the "212" gravestones, Uriziel, the General and his Ancient Runic Ore Armour and the Citadel can be grouped together in the category ancient Orc War, which would also explain the graves with the dates - in 212 Orcs ambushed a war meeting, but their plan did not succeed in their entirety.
Mikael Grizzly
28.01.2007, 21:36
Calin, tell me, do you even bother with my posts?
Lord Tymorisin could not have anything to do with the Mountain Citadel, for the very simple reason, that he did not live in that period. He lived in the period the Mountain Residence/Fort was constructed, closer to the 500s.
Also, the Orcs did not construct nor adapt the mountain top Citadel for the simple reason that the passages are still of human size, not orc size.
Calin, tell me, do you even bother with my posts?
Yea Calin, show a little respect towards the supreme authority in the Gothic's theoretisising!
But please don't mind me people, please go on with it, the threads like "212", "The ancient knowledge story", " Contradictions in Gothic games!", "History of Khorinis", "When does the Gothic world exist?" are a great enterteinment to read, and gaved me a few really good laughs. I bet even the members of Piranha Bites would be impressed with the imagination and with the obsession of some, and of course in some cases they would laughed their arses off.
Yea Calin, show a little respect towards the supreme authority in the Gothic's theoretisising!
But please don't mind me people, please go on with it, the threads like "212", "The ancient knowledge story", " Contradictions in Gothic games!", "History of Khorinis", "When does the Gothic world exist?" are a great enterteinment to read, and gaved me a few really good laughs. I bet even the members of Piranha Bites would be impressed with the imagination and with the obsession of some, and of course in some cases they would laughed their arses off.
What is your problem? Do you have something to settle with Mikael Grizzly? Take it in private. Do you find entertaining what you read? Then laugh and let us do our comedy.
But wait, I forgot. It's easier to destroy anything than to create something.
Me with the problem? Heh, you've messed something dear larisa...
Do you find entertaining what you read? Then laugh and let us do our comedy.
By all means do carry on, I really enjoy reading those threads, they're very funny, so as I said don't mind me, I had no bad intentions, I'm just amazed how profound impact can some game have on some individuals. But, that's not my problem...
Me with the problem? Heh, you've messed something dear larisa...
By all means do carry on, I really enjoy reading those threads, they're very funny, so as I said don't mind me, I had no bad intentions, I'm just amazed how profound impact can some game have on some individuals. But, that's not my problem...
I hate to turn this into offtopic, but it seems to me you DO have a problem. If I don't have a problem, I ignore the discussion. But you have a great need to hear yourself talking, no matter what you say, don't you? I won't pursue this matter further, because I feel I waste my time.
As I said you've messed WHO have a problem, and as I said DON'T MIND ME, so good, don't waste your time on me, and go back on topic. And I'm sorry for bumping in here, because I've breaked the thread's flow, and yes, I'm ignoring this 'philosophic' threads, but I just couldn't resist after I read that patronising passus I quoted in my first post in this thread. But before I could post I had to get up from the flor because I fell from my chair laughing.
Mikael Grizzly
29.01.2007, 12:31
DrakonX = Troll of the purest breed. Petition to a mod to split & vat his off-topic.
As for Calin... the reason is that I have a screenshot of the exact document he bases on, and I can say that he recalls it not as it was written.
Demonium
29.01.2007, 12:33
But please don't mind me people, please go on with it, the threads like "212", "The ancient knowledge story", " Contradictions in Gothic games!", "History of Khorinis", "When does the Gothic world exist?" are a great enterteinment to read, and gaved me a few really good laughs. I bet even the members of Piranha Bites would be impressed with the imagination and with the obsession of some, and of course in some cases they would laughed their arses off.
I'm just amazed how profound impact can some game have on some individuals.
Just LOL dude...but it is an offtopic lol :D So dont mess this superb thread...
You are the meaning of the word trolling...though
Mikael Grizzly
29.01.2007, 20:09
Well, the Monastery's backstory bears some relation to the druids (after all, they were monks worshipping a deity that allowed them to shapeshift into animals)... but I digress.
I guess that the Old Citadel and Monastery are more or less from the same time period, dating back to the First Orc War, seeing how they are in a similiar, decayed state.
Mikael Grizzly
29.01.2007, 20:20
Ahh... that monastery.
My guess is, it could be as old as the Valley castle, seeing how it's state suggest it's not freshly built, it was where Xardas at one point worked and the Khorinian people are completely used to it's presence.
And it houses two important relics, the Holy Hammer and the Shield of Fire.
So, propably as old as the Valley's Castle.
Snoop_dg
29.01.2007, 20:21
Well i bet the island of Khorinis is a very important place after all because we have : Innos Hammer , Innos Shield , Innos Tears - a whole lot of sacred things , not to mention the focus stones , Then we have VoM - main ore vein for the kingdom , I really dunno what to say about the Orc War in Khorinis . Would Onar's farm survive such a war ???( asuming there warent anny mercenaries then ) no fortifications . Well a whole lot of treashures around there to , Not far from khorinis is the Last temple of belliar . It looks like the mainlands do not have so manny sacred things and not to mention not so manny cemeteries :D :D
Mikael Grizzly
29.01.2007, 20:27
Khorinis is a remote island, perfect for saving precious relics - you don't really keep ancient, priceless relics in a place vulnerable to being conquered by the enemy, do you? ;)
Well, the Monastery is certainly not as old as the ruins dating back to the First Orc War, and Onar's farm didn't even exist back then propably.
Mikael Grizzly
31.01.2007, 21:46
Frankly, I believe this is highly unlikely, seeing how there is no crystal-based piece of weaponry, armour or general use item in existence. I believe it would be more prudent to assume they were skillful craftsmen of metal-based items.
The crystals may be natural phenomena, caused by Adanos' flooding.
Mikael Grizzly
01.02.2007, 12:41
We need proof that it was a mine constructed by Jarkendar during the peak of it's power. Without proof, we can't state that as a fact.
Besides, crystal is a very resilient and durable material, and anything crafted from it would surely be available. Also, notice the Jarkendarian armour Raven wears - there is only metal there. no crystal at all.
strange little guy
01.02.2007, 15:19
Well, the Monastery is certainly not as old as the ruins dating back to the First Orc War, and Onar's farm didn't even exist back then propably.
when exactly did the first orc war occur? how many years ago? because I remember Onar saying that the farm had been inherited from father to son in generations. So it's fully possible that the farm was already constructed when the first orc war was waged.
Mikael Grizzly
01.02.2007, 15:50
Yes, I did miss that fragment in one of the lore books. However, the farm wasn't propably as big and something else was in that location, as two graveyards are located in that area, as well as a watchtower and a paladin mausoleum.
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