Decapitation

[Cpt.Slackbladder]

Gothic 1&2 are great games and you have the question about what do we want in Gothic 3? Well all the stuff mentioned could make an improvement. But what about Decapitation? With the special move when you swing round with your sword, this would be great if it cut head the off of your opponent wouldn’t it? Like in the old game barbarian, very amusing but cool at the same time. You could also have instead of the npc's falling flat on the ground when you beat them up they fall on their knees. Then you could have the option to kick them to the floor or chop their head off. I think it would be a great improvement.

[Sowilo]

Mike has the aim that the game is in Germany avaible for 12 years+. I don't think that that is possible with ur feature^^.

[Sektenspinner]

I don't think that this would be an improvement.
Gothic doesn't need violence in this degree to be a good game.
Our dear hero is indeed a tough guy but neither a brutal torturer nor a mass murderer.
Such things needlessly spoil the game and discreate a lot of the well-balanced atmosphere.

[Dez]

huh for 12 years...

Really that must suck a lot.Are they planning to make gothic as politically correct as possible, or what? if so, Mike please take out cursing, sex, violence, drug use and all the other adult themes you had in gothic I&2..Kind of hard to imagine gothic world without those.I can imagine "hey i would sell you some swamp weed , but this is game aimed for 12 year old so we are not allowed to do so"."hey baby wanna have some fun..oh damn sorry we are not allowed to do, so becouse of the rating".Really gothic should not be aimed to any particular age-group..If it ends up being 15 or 18, let it be so.

One thing that is truly refreshing in gothic saga, is the fact, it was never trying to be a politically correct game.

Its really hilarious that the violence is such a big deal.If you strike someone with a sword, i would expect to see some blood at the very least.

[Fizzban]

Really that must suck a lot.Are they planning to make gothic as politically correct as possible, or what? if so, Mike please take out cursing, sex, violence, drug use and all the other adult themes you had in gothic I&2..Kind of hard to imagine gothic world without those.I can imagine "hey i would sell you some swamp weed , but this is game aimed for 12 year old so we are not allowed to do so"."hey baby wanna have some fun..oh damn sorry we are not allowed to do, so becouse of the rating".Really gothic should not be aimed to any particular age-group..If it ends up being 15 or 18, let it be so.

Actually, Gothic 1, Gothic 2 and TNORT all have a "suitable for 12+" rating in Germany. Cursing, sex and drug use aren't a real problem but extreme violence is. Probably more than in other countries.

[Iron Mouse]

That's how the priorities are. In Germany, sex, drugs and cursing is no big deal so the Gothic games are rated 12+. Violence, however, seems to be critical...if you were able to hack someone's head, arms, legs, whatever off, along with lots of blood, the rating would raise to 18+ very quickly.
In the US, this is vice versa, no one seems to care if the kids play brutal games or watch brutal movies, but sex, drugs & rock'n'roll (;)) is NOT tolerated...no way!
I guess G3 will either be cut or get a higher rating there (BTW, does anyone know how G1&2 were rated?).

I can't tell how this is handled in other countries, though...

@topic: I don't need that :rolleyes:

[Dez]

yeah well didn't know so well those german ratings..i just made calculations how you german handle violence in games, so i made a stupid assumption that this is a case with nudity, drugs, cursing etc :).

Btw now that i look at the backcover of gothic 2 case, there IS +12, not 15, like remembered :p.I can not tell you how embarassing this is...
But i remember reading that in some countries gothic 2 was +15 :).Was it in the US?Can someone confirm this?Or am i all wrong?

Well it seems that we have a bit similar age-policy here in Fnland.Usually violence raises the age-limit (ie severance was 18+ and soldier of fortune was also.Hitman-games were rated 18, if i remember correctly, cant be bothered to search my hitman 2 box)

[Auroc]

I don't even want Gothic to be a sadistic splatter-event of violence.
For me it's kind of a "fairy tale" with that special touch of atmosphere.

I just can not undestand the imagination of you, guys. Especially the US-american attitude towards sex, drugs and violence.
An insoluble riddle.

[Manolo]

well....mmm...i don't understand to muach the other post, but the general idea yes.
i'm favor of some more violence, blood...i don't know if decapitation...the thing if that gothic is a good game without this.
you want to see another blade of darkness but there wa to much ajajaj..

i'm my country there is no problem with the age or with the games...if you have the money you have the game....it's coast 1.70 u$s per cd

[Cpt.Slackbladder]

Violence? I have seen worse on the Itchy and Scratchy cartoons! (Simpsons)
I don’t mean for it be a pure blood and gore like “Manhunt” or anything.
But the fact is you do fight with swords and sword is a sharp weapon that cuts things.
The old game “Barbarian” Was not really violent or gory but still had decapitation. I was around about 12 when I first played that game, my brother even younger. It was a laugh, just a game they are only computer sprites. What about in gothic 1 when you had the choice of skewering your sword in their stomach, as they lay unconscious? I don’t think that’s any less violent than chopping a head off. As for the hero being a mass murderer, you get that choice whether you can slice off heads or not! I did it in both games when I got bored, I would go round just killing everyone (after I completed the game once of course) .It is up to you how you want the hero to be anyway. If you don’t want the game to be violent then why did u buy that huge axe? Or that really long sharp looking sword, what are you planning to with it? Hit them with the blunt end and tell them off? Next you will want it to be like the “A-Team” where nobody gets killed. Do me a favour and stop smoking that swampweed.

[Sowilo]

Only why I know that the game isn't real I don't have to include "real" effects. But u r right there is no reason why I shoudn't do that. And the game has an influence at ur behaviour, maybe u don't realise that. I don't say that u will slaughter persons in the reality but there r children who arn't able to cope with some impressions.
I have the point of view that it is very cruelfull to kill someone lying at the ground too but to cut off parts off the body is senseless if that does not effects the enemy. And if its does the game would be a virtuel massacre and that isn't that what I want.
But I would like to cut a few legs of a minecrawler or have to behead a zombie to kill him but not as regular game element.

[Auroc]

Oh, please...
Isn't it enough to ram your sword/axe or something into your enemy's stomach, lying on the ground.
Just to implement such a part in the game is surreal. It's not the necessary means for the end.

If you don't like the game how it is, just don't play it.

[Iron Mouse]

I've played Barbarian. It was kinda comic-style...just like Itchy&Scratchy (which is, by the way, completely overdrawn).
However, the Gothic games aren't comic-like, they're realistic-looking, so decapitation and the like would't be funny, just savage and brutal.

P.S.: If you like stuff like this, try to get Die by the Sword, I think you'll love it.

[Nirazul]

Well, when I first played Gothic, I even was surprised about the final move (the one you ram the sword into you enemy's body). It was sth like a breach of the atmosphere, in a strange way inappropriate for the game atmosphere.
Decapitation is far more violent and I don't know what's your opinion about that but I wouldn't be able to identify me with a character that is hunting down enemies and cut down their heads §lieb

About the priorities: A really interesting topic. I can't understand why the americans are so hardliners concerning drugs, sex (well even bare breasts ^^) etc.. and on the other hand have no problems with flying bodyparts or other bestialic exhibition of violence... Hm, I think they wouldn't understand the German/Swiss neither. What about the UK? What is it all about there? Problems with exhibition of violence/sex/drugs?

[some words in this post are sponsored by >Babylon< the easy dictionary ^^]

[The Unamed]

yeah well didn't know so well those german ratings..i just made calculations how you german handle violence in games, so i made a stupid assumption that this is a case with nudity, drugs, cursing etc :).

Btw now that i look at the backcover of gothic 2 case, there IS +12, not 15, like remembered :p.I can not tell you how embarassing this is...
But i remember reading that in some countries gothic 2 was +15 :).Was it in the US?Can someone confirm this?Or am i all wrong?

Well it seems that we have a bit similar age-policy here in Fnland.Usually violence raises the age-limit (ie severance was 18+ and soldier of fortune was also.Hitman-games were rated 18, if i remember correctly, cant be bothered to search my hitman 2 box)

Where I live in Canada Gothic 2 is rated 17+ and I think it is mainly becuase of the drugs/sex content. most of the games with just violence and blood are rated 13+ unless it is extreme.

[Dez]

At the moment gothic is allmoust bloodless.you can hardly find blood there, which is kind of weird as all the people are carrying swords, axes, bows, maces and so on...

I won't wish any extreme violence,like cutting heads or body parts. but blood and wounds could make things look more realistic, it just feels a bit odd, that when i hit the guy with sword there is no blood in sight.

One thing that could make game feel more real, if the arrows would get stuck in enemies and objects.and you collect them later from enemies for re-use.if you so wish.

[LadyLomar]

One thing that could make game feel more real, if the arrows would get stuck in enemies and objects.and you collect them later from enemies for re-use.if you so wish.

thats a quiet interesting idea, like the arrows stucking in the tree and the skeletons sometimes which you can pick up and use another time, thats something i could frat with.

greeZZ my God one

Obey Me...~one :G

[one-cool]

@Dez:what's next?
Dead Bodies laying eyerywhere, cause they dont disappear.

I think it's too real then.

[Dez]

I just don't get it, what makes blood such a big deal.I think more dangerous is the violence, that does not show any consequences and shows that causing violence is a "clean process".

I don't wish blood for blood's sake.I wish blood for the sake the credibility of gothic world.Suddenly it is damn hard to forget that swords make wounds to people. if they get hit with such thing.It is not much of a problem at the end, but something that could make many people happy.Besides most games have gore filters, why couldn't pb do the same thing for gothic 3.

one-cool,

well i don't see any downsides in your suggestion, could you try to explain why do you think such thing is too real? :)

Anyhow there are animals everywhere so it is not really hard to imagine that they have eaten the the corpses, so this sort of thing is not a big deal :).

The keyword here is not realism really, its the credibility.

[one-cool]

one-cool,

well i don't see any downsides in your suggestion, could you try to explain why do you think such thing is too real? :)

Anyhow there are animals everywhere so it is not really hard to imagine that they have eaten the the corpses, so this sort of thing is not a big deal :).

The keyword here is not realism really, its the credibility.
It is a GAME.
Why must it be credible?

When the animals eat the corpses the skelletts must lay somewhere. It's a vicious circle. In the end it's better that the Bodies gets erased automatically by the game.

And with the Decapitation it is the same: it' s part of an atmosphere, and in gothic it is the wrong atmosphere to do that.

[Dez]

Atmosphere? The whole damn country is in war, isn't it a bit violent setting from the begin with? :).

i was never defending a decapition.Look at who started the thread.I was simply asking few blood effects and really can't see this sort of thing ruining any atmosphere.There is no need to go extreme or stay totally bloodless.There are a lot of things in between those two. Incidentally for me the whole atmosphere-concept bases on the foundation of credibility(ie npc daily schedules, lore, story etc).

If a majority is totally against even discussing about any possible changes to "the violence level", fine.However in a game discussion the weakest way to back up your arguments, is to bring out the "it is just a game"- card.

credibility is important for many gamers as it makes easier to immerssive to the gameworld..For instance there must a reason why mages are able to throw fireballs and there is(innos gave them part of his power).So it feels believable.Can you see what i mean?

[one-cool]

Now I got the point.
(and I have to agree to your opinion ^^)


greeZZ LadyLomar

born to attend my mistress

[Poster]

I think in Gothic 3 will be as much blood as in gothic 1+2, which you can even buy in Germany when you are over 12 years old. So you don't have to worry about that Gothic III will be totally without blood.
For me it is not important if gothic 3 would be completely without blood.
(I hope you understood my post, because my English is not really good :rolleyes: )

[LadyLomar]

@Candechiall
don't worry your english is good as well and understandable for all of us, also §welcome in our englishforum.

greeZZ me

[simulity]

Mike has the aim that the game is in Germany avaible for 12 years+. I don't think that that is possible with ur feature^^.


that's perfectly possible... You can chop off heads in Fable and Fable is a usk 12 game, so there would be no problem with decapitation in a game such as gothic... of course it's not necessary, but i wouldnt't resent it if it was to be implemented in gothic3 :D

what I don't understand is why some of you think it would harm the atmosphere... It's not the fighting that makes the atmosphere of a game such as gothic as it is only a minor feature of this game

[crimson_cosmos]

Decapitation - hmmm...I don't know. Someone mentioned that he wanted to see executions in Gothic 3. I think this game has a violence level quite right. I mean it could be more violent. It could have more blood-effects. You may be able to chop off hands or see skinned animals all over, but that would be too much I think. Skinned animals and choped off limbs are too much for me. An occasional decapitation - a zombie or something, I could do with. Personally I don't want to see blood spilling all over the area when I hit someone. But wounds that hinder movement would be a nice addition. Arrows that stick in trees and targets, aventually for later use - is also a nice idea. But I don't see how an arrow would enter a heavy guard armor, though.
I believe that the most important thing, regarding fights and stuff, should not be how much blood spills over, but what moves does the character know, how the effects vary with different weapons (you can't chop off a head with a hammer). Also some more weapons should be added - I mean, in Gothic 2 I bought a spear, but he uses it like a staff...imagine a flail - that would be cool. That's it for now!

[Bowman]

@Dez,

Well the blood effects are there, but hidden within the gothic game. I think the blood effect is just right, - no blood by default (for those who prefer) or by purposely editing the .ini file for those players who wish to see either a bit or a lot of blood, - - even green goo'y stuff from the lizards looks good - but best of all is the bloody footprint trails (red or green) left on the ground by the killer and trailing off into the distance!

[MercSteff]

no decapitation for me, please! this is an adventure game, not a horror/violence oriented game! next you'll want to tear the guy's heart out, right?

[Sowilo]

In the Addon u can get the beheaded head of Bloodwyn, u see its already included.
I think with things like this the PB's r testing what they can do and what not. Nobody said, that the special service in the harbor or this thing with Bloodwyn is bad so they know that these boarders r accepted.
I could imagine, that u have to behead certain enemies (4 example zombies) or that a few bones of a skeleton will broke during a combat or that u can cut a few legs of a minecrawler.

[MercSteff]

beheading can be done they way you've said it, but i'm sure that it would become a habit if they would leave it up to everyone to decide.

[rekinu]

I guess the decapitation isn't a very good thing for gothic(I mean did you saw those real clips where someone is decapitated for real???).I don't want that kind of violence, but sticking your sword in your enemy its particulary for gothic... The blood level you can adjust in the ini file, and i think thats at the choice of everyone...

I'd like the arrows that remains in the trees, or your enemy...but they will have to dissapear after one chapter...(i think). The bodies that remain are a great idea, in g2 the bodies that were important remained(the seekers, two paladins at pass,etc).

[Bartacus]

That's how the priorities are. In Germany, sex, drugs and cursing is no big deal so the Gothic games are rated 12+. Violence, however, seems to be critical...if you were able to hack someone's head, arms, legs, whatever off, along with lots of blood, the rating would raise to 18+ very quickly.
In the US, this is vice versa, no one seems to care if the kids play brutal games or watch brutal movies, but sex, drugs & rock'n'roll (;)) is NOT tolerated...no way!

And know we wonder about the stupid GTA kids and Doom kids killing of each other. But what I saw last year in the videostore was even worse: a 4y old was playing Vice City. This is called an irresponsible parent.

[MercSteff]

what can i say, kinds would play any pc agame. i know this from a good friend who has a 6 y old boy and he plays rise of nations all by himself! and he wins too! that is after he got bored with NFS.

[ThorTheViking]

I like the idea about killing in diffrent an colorful ways. Why is that sadistic??
You kill people. It doesen't matter how you do it. It is sadistic. And that age 12+ is tottaly stubid because of other adult themes that are already in the game. Pb should put the slashing action in but if you don't want it just disable it in the menu.

[ElieTheGreat]

yeah well didn't know so well those german ratings..i just made calculations how you german handle violence in games, so i made a stupid assumption that this is a case with nudity, drugs, cursing etc :).

Btw now that i look at the backcover of gothic 2 case, there IS +12, not 15, like remembered :p.I can not tell you how embarassing this is...
But i remember reading that in some countries gothic 2 was +15 :).Was it in the US?Can someone confirm this?Or am i all wrong?

Well it seems that we have a bit similar age-policy here in Fnland.Usually violence raises the age-limit (ie severance was 18+ and soldier of fortune was also.Hitman-games were rated 18, if i remember correctly, cant be bothered to search my hitman 2 box)


The World has changed (on the bad side of course) kids from a very early age see violence coz the have access to it , it doesn't matter how you rate a game lol , same if it's 10 + or 20 + a kid here can barge in and buy it lol , the first major horror movie i saw was when i was 5 , and i am not proud of it ... anyway I would love to see new moves ... to the kids i know , from 5 to 18 have no problem seeing the worst scene a kid (an average) from another time could think of ... including all the drugs and sex and ogrish stuff and everything. I am not very proud of how the world has become ...

here well a kid opens up at an early age some dont but the ones who do , like me , have an oportunity no one has in other countries , there was drug users once in my school they forced a 10 year old to smoke some drugs but ppl found out and he was taken care ... but others dont ...

Still a bit of blood in Gothic would make it more middle age ... I mean come on it was brutal back then ...
sorry for going off topic

[Grimmwulf]

Just as the Americans frowns on sex and nudity, Germany frowns on dismemberment. Funcom, the creators of the new MMORPG "Age of Conan", decided to remove decapitation from their otherwise brutal game because they wanted it to be avaliable on the German market as well.

So with the majority of the Gothic fans being German, the Gothic games will definately never have any dismemberment animations.

[DeadlyArrow]

I don't think that such game like Gothic needs decapitation, and I quess in gothic world they prefer to hanging criminals (remember the square in Khorinis).
But actually dismembering in games isn't so bad imho. And I don't think that games or movies or books are responsible for all violence in the world. Well in my school was many children who used drugs, and some of them are dead, and I was at funerals of my classmate in 12 class. They die not because of games. They die coz they nothing to do. Most of them don't have normal home. It's drug dealers' lair near my home, not soooo close, but I can see ppl who are going here and they are just loosers, they don't play games and don't watch films.

[Godcrusher]

Im wery afraid that gothic will become with this special moves litlle more a fighting game so i think thats not nessery.

[ThorTheViking]

But very big % of time you fight in gothic. Why not make a moore blood and slashing option in the menu. If you don't like it just disable it. What's the problem??. All of you who don't like the idea, don't you wan't to see others happy? It doesen't change anything for you guys you just disable it in the menu of the game and play it as you normally would. :D

[DFA]

Decapitation... hmmm, I'm not sure, I mean, I'm trying to think of someone in the world of Gothic that would go as far as decapitating someone...
Maybe the Rogues in G1? nah, they would just loot the body and throw the corpse at some snappers or something
Mercenaries? I think they're better off beating people off and then laughing in their faces
Maybe the Paladins? probably, if someone commited a serious enough crime against the church of Innos.

Only person I can see decapitating someone is Gomez, and that's because of his particular temper, and the eternal uncertainity I've always had about what he's capable of.

I guess I don't really mind, I would love to decapitate zombies tho, or animals, to take as trophies like the ones hanging on people's houses (don't get me wrong, I love animals, but this is just a game). Concerning animals, after skinning animals, I'd like to see the animal skinned! Not just for gore's sake, but for realism, and convenience (Who here hasnt left at least one animal unlooted after killing a mob of over 6 of the same beast?). I'm not asking for the corpses to cause a bloodflood, not even spill blood, but just tell me, at first sight, that the animal has been skinned.

People need to bleed more tho, I mean, you're hitting them with a freaking sword/axe!!, and they get up a minute later acting like you just beat them up with your fists.

The thing with the arrows sounds really nice, adds some realism to the game. Another thing I would like to see in gothic 3 is more weapon variety, katars, daggers, flails, spears (with actual spear animations), maybe throwing knives?

[ThorTheViking]

Decapitation was ment in a way of finishing move. You beat someone up and then while he is stunned cut his head of. The arrows ide i like too. and we wrot about throwing weapons in the thread Throwing weapons.

[rekinu]

why cut the head? doesn't make sense....if you stab him in the abdomen like in G1, its enough.....and btw, thor it's not really necessary to kill everything that moves in gothic, so I think that you don't fight a very big % in gothic....you can just complete quests, and the medium killing it's like 40 %. and the minimum killing its like 20 % of the game.right ?

[ThorTheViking]

Rekinu i don't agree. I think most of it is fighting. Yes you can spend moore time in the city or camp but to finish the game you have to fight a lot. Remember orcish temple in g1 and the dragons in g2 fight fight and fight. And stabbing in the abdomen is not enouhg for me. Play Severance: Blade of darkness and you will see what i mean.

[Cathar the Great]

yes, fighting is necessary to complete the game, but the focus of gothic 1 and 2 is not on fighting, it's on completing the quests and make your in the world

all these ideas like more weapons, more ways of killing people, throwing, decapitation, i don't need that in g3 actually

[Colonelu]

Yeah i agree with you Canthar but some new critical moves will work pretty well for me :D

[ThorTheViking]

Canthar you missed my point. I didn't write what was the focus of the game. What i ment was that a lot of time in the game is fighting and why not make that more interesting so it wouldn't be so boring and always the same. Why shouldn't gothic offer more than it already does? And if you don't want to kill in other ways just don't do it. It's your decision if you would like to decapitate someone or not. I would enyoj a game much moore if it was made in such way.

[rekinu]

well, thor this "if you don't want to do it, don't do it" thing is relevant. I mean you cannot play gothic using just the way of killing that you like, knowing that there are alot more ways of killing...everyone will want to play every detail in gothic they can, and if they don't like one aspect of the killing part, they won't use it, and probably won't feel that good....(ok this idea isn't that good....) but think of it this way.... In warrior within you can't choose the way of finishing the oponent, the final move it's the same, he just finish his combo by chopping the head of , or sth like that.... so maybe that is what G will be like, so I don't think you will have 6 buttons each with a different ending of the opponent.... :rolleyes:

[ThorTheViking]

I realize that gothic 3 won't be like this. if you don't want to do it, don't do it thing is not relevant because you try something and you don't like how it looks you don't use it. Don't tell me that you killed every enemy in a diffrent way in POPWW. You used the moves that you like. Someone likes to chop heads all the time that doesen't mean there should be only this way of finishing moves. And also there don't have to be 6 diffrent buttons. In g2&1 you hold left mouse button and then press forward to stab an enemy. Here you could also press left or right and down and you have 4 diffrent moves from which you can choose. What move you will use the most depends on you. That thing with combos like in POPWW is the same if there were random finishes that hero chooses himself. You would have to hit the enemy 5 times with the same move to see the finish you like the best. I think it's easyer to hold mouse and pres left,forward,right or backward so you don't need to do combianations all the time.

[rekinu]

whatever, I just hope the fighting system will be good and fitted for Gothic....(as I'm sure it will be...)

[ThorTheViking]

I hope there are no hard feelings i just tell what i think. :D

[rekinu]

of course you do, we all do....

[Cathar the Great]

of course you do, we all do....

really?
damn, i've just been writing down the stuff the voices in my head have told me

joke.
no one will be mad at you for saying your opinion (at least not in this part of the forum) unless you stick to the standard rules like no sexism, racism, etc

[ThorTheViking]

well some people(sometimes even myself) get mad over others opinion.It happens. :D

[Godcrusher]

well some people(sometimes even myself) get mad over others opinion.It happens. :D


aye. shit happnes

[ThorTheViking]

That is why we have games to kill some enemies and to cool down :D

[rekinu]

I just read the report, from GC (from the news) and it said that, you can learn different moves to finish an orc, and different moves for animals....maybe even a decapitation....so thor....;)

[ThorTheViking]

So there are some good news :D

[ElieTheGreat]

Yay !! :D

[ThorTheViking]

Well i doubt there will be decapitation but i sure wish that PB would make a addon with blody finish ways. :D